SL economy in trouble?!

I'm pretty much a newbie and might not have some big picture in mind, so
correct me if I'm off base. I've seen various posts about the SL economy
being false for this reason or that.... but I think some of those people just
misunderstood the TYPE of economy we have here.

However, I DO see a problem... well.. a potential problem which could
come about in the near future, and I think it needs discussion and a "fix".

The problem (as I see it) is in the "copy" permission.
Specifically the fact there are no labor costs in duplicating an item.
Once someone makes (or has) an item that be be copied... they
can make an infinite number of these at no additional cost.

This is a very bad idea in a world where people are trying to sell things.

If Linden Labs wants to make SL a place of economy, which they seem
to do by telling people they can make real money.... then this one thing
could end up being a killer.

As an example... right now we have several VERY talented designers
making all kinds of cool things... Chip Midnight, Munchflower Zaius doing
awesome skins, Cubey Terra making some great scripted vehicles, and
there are TONS of others that come to mind. They are here to make money.
Without people like this... putting in the long, dedicated hours for great
new content SL would not be quite the place it is now (or will/could be).
If suddenly something were to happen which caused revenue to drop
to near $0.. how long would these people stay?

That doesn't imply they are bad capitalist pigs only out to make a buck...
would you stay in YOUR job and go to work every day if they didn't pay you?

So... how could this happen? Well, let's say that in a year down the road
a couple of these fabulous designers want to move on to other things in life.
As a final parting gift they decide it would be great to supply the community
with all their creations for free... textures and all.... Don't think it couldn't
happen, because good natured people may often feel a desire to give...
especially if they don't intend to profit any further from something.

Suddenly everyone is wearing fantastic free skins and riding/flying around
in all kinds of marvelous free vehicles, etc. What would that do to all
other sellers? A VERY specific example would be Munchflowers skins.
I have a couple rather nice free skins, but always keep seeing some REALLY
very beautiful people. So far of the 5 girls I've asked, they all said they
have Muchflower skins. I think most people would say having one of her
skins is certainly "good enough"... and no need to buy more.. especially
if you're trying to MAKE money, and not spend it. SO, one day she's done
with SL and gives all her stuff away.. a final bit of goodwill to the community
that she's loved.

People make copies and copies and give away freely to newbies.. and
soon no one really feels a "need' to go out and spend $1000-$5000 on
a skin that's really as top of the line as that one.

I feel SOME mechanism needs to be put in place which causes there
to be some cost in manufacturing duplicate items.

This might sound bad at first... especially for sellers... but actually when
given the alternative above, is much better. Besides that, there ARE
several other global advantages.

Let's say that prims could not be instantly created from nothing, but rather
we change the system so that "prim liquid" was needed in order to create
prims. The amount of this liquid would be based on the volume/density
of the prim being created. HUGE prims (10x10m2) would require so many
gallons, while something like a diamond ring size would be just a few ounces.

This prim liquid needed to be mined or harvested.
Instantly there is now a labor charge to make items.

One advantage would be that now Newbies can have a mindless job that
takes no skill to earn a little cash. The big sellers aren't going to take the
time to harvest themselves, so they dont mind paying newbies for this.

Another advantage to sellers is that they don't need to fear someone copying
their idea and giving away infinite copies for free... because there will be some
cost in creating the items now... although a super rich and generous person
could still spend their own money to do this, it will be far less... and limited in
that SOMEONE will be paying for it.

We will have less arguing over the morality of selling "free" items.. since
if there is a cost involved to duplicate an item, then the person trying to
sell those items will need to pay the duplication costs also.. or they can
only sell the limited number of items they have.

Linden Labs could also make further profits from this by providing a
warehouse of pre-packaged, ready to use," liquid prim" for a couple
$L per gallon. People don't HAVE to buy it.. they could always harvest
their own... but that would be set up to take 15-30 seconds per gallon
or something.


Well... there are my first thoughts...
Any comments?

Gabrielle

So I would also be able to sell my prim juice?

I've heard this argument before, and I don't agree.

Over time, LL will make technical improvements to SL that will make "old" things obsolete. For example, when there is an update that produces more realistic avatars, maybe including different jointing to support better animations, most old poses, animations and skins would fall out of favor. Not instantly, but as new ones come out customized for the "new" avatars, they will be inherently better and people will want them.

When there is an update to the physics engine, or sim crossing, number of prims a vehicle is allowed to have, or whatever, old vehicles will become obsolete. When there is an increase in the number of prims that a parcel can hold, the old low-prim houses will fall out of favor, because "low prim" would mean more complex than before. What used to be "low prim" becomes cheap-looking.

Many creative areas are driven by fads, especially clothing and hair. Don't even try to suggest that we will stop having fads.

If SL were completely static, with no technical changes ever, the argument would have more merit. But with periodic technology upgrades and cycles of fads, I don't see any great danger of stagnation.

Buster

To add to Buster's points, business owners have left the world throughout our history and generally either ended their product lines or sold them to budding entrepreneurs. Very very few have just released their products as freely copyable. Whether this was done to protect the economy I don't know. But it's an observable effect.

Having freely copyable plants inworld lets people experiment with building their virtual environment at low cost. It also prompts me to build better plants than the free ones so that people are willing to pay for them. Those are both good things in my book.

Finally, my products are copiable. It seems silly to me to make people organize dozens of duplicate trees in their inventory when they can just use a few copiable versions. This of course forces me to continually develop new textures to put on the market. Those are both good things in my book too.

Our economy works just like a real one. When something starts dragging it down, enough people rally to do something about it. Wealth may shift hands in the process; but it's not really lost.

For once, Gabrielle, I think we disagree.

First of all, let me cite something that predates my own existance in Second Life: Originally, people were charged a flat fee to rez an object into the world.

What I am told is this system was woefully inefficient, and ultimately it was abandoned in favor of the "tier" structure of payment. Arguably, this system doesn't work that well, either.


Ultimately, I feel the system that will work is one that charges people objectively on their usage of the system vis a vis bandwidth. But this sidesteps the point.

-----

The copy permission simply must exist in a world of virtual data, and indeed, it is the very reason the internet has succeeded. Second Life is based upon this permission as a free transmission of content and ideas; if your client was unable to view the world's prim content on a copy basis, Second Life would be a dull place indeed.

The new Holy Grail here is one that completely sidesteps ideas of finite gain and finite objects that exist in one area of the world. Rather, the new pursuit are ideas, systems, and labor in creating content as the newest consumables.

The reason "monetary gain" does not holistically work under this new structure (eg. music piracy) is the simple fact many people come to the table with very archaic ideas of it. I feel that it does work so long as the buyer comprehends how much work you put into the original design, and there we run into our first snag.

Conveying value in this new medium is very tough, especially with the temptation of just copying it wholesale. Additionally, the internet medium allows for the presence of a nigh-infinite number of substitutes, which drives the perceived value of certain goods down to woefully low levels under the watch of SourceForge and other such organizations.

The bottom line here, and the scheme that works best, is to target a niche market at the gatekeeper level. Two good examples of this are Google and Microsoft.

One has cornered the usage market in search engine technology, which gives Google huge leeway in dictating the flow of information and paid advertising campaigns. Microsoft, on the other hand, has cornered the OS market, and uses that regime to further its (greedy?) ambitions of selling content to novice users.

In other words, you seek to have your practice standardized and made the status quo. This by its very nature transcends permissions entirely, making them rather moot in the face of other ideas at play.

-----------

One other point I'd like to mention. There is a system in place already that works against the Copy Permission. It's the status quo and simple knowledge.

This is why I let people sell my "freebie" scripts as they like, so long as the tagline "is made by me and can be obtained freely at the following locations" is maintained. It's one good example of knowledge working against people that try to set up empires on others' hard work.

I have another idea...

Since machines on farms have changed things and put many ppl out of their work, what would've happened, if the law only allowed a farmer to plow his land with a machine, if he hired 30 people 'just to watch'. That would create jobs, pay people who don't have land or talent or money to get a farm, so everyone would be happy.

Also, at factories, there should be a law, that even if machines do all things many many people did before, the factory has to hire people, just to watch... They don't need to do a thing, but they'll get the money for being there. Everyone's happy!

Or not?

Well, similar to these problems, i feel you're forcing old world's laws on the digital world. Don't worry, there are new problems (bit rot, etc) which replace the old, and demand for a new view and a new business model.

Ok. Imagine everyone would wear the SAME NICE OUTFIT. Would that be cool? No, you'd feel lame, and you'd consider it worthless, since every man in SL's wearing it. Not unique enough.

Wow... first few posts really didn't see any positive
traction for what I still see as a very serious issue.

Lemme try to further point out some things that
might have been missed...




Not sure if this was serious.. but, of course...
just like people harvest Earths resources and
sell them to manufacturing companies.






Buster, I hear ya... and totally agree.
I'm not suggesting that the free items we have now will be adequate to ALL
the SL residents for ever and ever. Nor am I suggesting that there might
be a time when it's impossible for ANY creators to make a profit from their
new creations.

What I am suggesting is that with the current copy/labor set up we
have here in SL it is drastically hurting business potential, and there
is a huge potential for much more severe damage to the economy
on the retailer/creators part.

As I was saying in another thread a friend of mine bought a cute candle
which gave off butterfly smoke. Lots of us thought it was cool. I gave
her a bunch of (free) butterfly things I had since she was really into
them, and she offered me one of her candles (which she paid $35 for).
The next day I asked if there was more I could get for her and she
said she wished her butterfly smoke was not in a candle, so she could
"wear" it. Being the nice/generous person I am, and presented with
a challenge, I proceeded to take apart the candle to see how it worked.
Everything was open to me except the butterfly texture itself, so I
created my own, tweaked the smoke script some, put it in a belly jewel
and gave it to her. She LOVED it!

Now, I'm SURE the creator of the candle would have put it in a wearable
item too.. perhaps charged $35 for it... so they lost the sale. Let's say
that I want to help the community so I give away my item to every
person I come across in SL. A couple months down the road there
are SO many copies of my free item the candle maker cannot sell any
more candles!

... this is because there's no cost in copying. It's a real example that
just happened this week. I love learning to create new things, and
if I see something out there I like I will probably try to make a replica
for myself... since I'm a broke newbie, with a lot of time. I'm sure there
are many out there that do the same.... if not now, as the SL population
grows.. more people WILL be like that.

If I was REALLY in to butterflies I might visit the Butterfly shop myself.
Look at all the items.. try to recreate them for myself, and then.. oh
what the heck.. give them away.... I think that would devestate that
person's business.. don't you think? Even if the technology DOES
change in... uh... a year? 2 years?

I wonder what Cubey Terra would think about "oh.. the techology
will change and make free items obsolete"... if I got in to SL so much
I became a master builder.... everyone likes his vehicles, but it was
not good enough for me that people had to pay "so much" for them.
I'll just recreate them as best I can and give them away to everyone
I meet... now EVERYONE can have fun!! (even the broke people who
cant afford those items). I doubt he'd feel very good about it. Nor
do I think he'd think it was no big deal because (someday) the SL
technology would make my free items obsolete.... how long would
THAT take??

Right now nothing can stop a person from doing the best they can
to replicate another item best they can, and then giving away an
infinite number of copies for free. I see this as very harmful to
people who are here to make real money. True.. not everyone is
here to make money.... but how many people would leave SL if
they were not able to sell their items for a profit?

If there was a labor charge in duplicating items.... whether
it's time or cash, then it's very unlikely that SL would see the
problem stated above.




Heehee.. of course not!
There will always be fads... but this market would even be
hurt MORE! Let's say some new product called "FurryMutts"
really takes off in FL.. or even SL... everyone's gotta have
one of these things! So people see a market in SL, and create
them... selling... business starts to boom!!

But wait! Some good natured soul creates some great ones
and gives them away for free! They give hundreds away to
everyone and soon everyone in SL who wanted one knows
about the free ones, or has alredy gotten one..... in effect
killing any business for the person trying to make a profit.

I doubt the SL technology changes would happen fast
enough to stop that.

Gabrielle

haha... of course that's silly.
I'm not suggesting this idea as an artificial way to create jobs
for newbies.. or people without skills.

Certainly if technology advances to the point that people are put out
of work, then they need to get new skills and get different work.

So, are you suggesting that SL technology has reached the point
of the StarTrek "holodeck" or that food producing vendor they had?
Where you just ask for something, and you instantly have it?
No cost.. no waiting?
Because it sure seems like you are....
Since,infact,in SL we DO have the ability to copy an item infinite
number of times at no cost. This might seem like a utopian
society... and perhaps some people here really WANT a world
like that! If First Life was like that too, then perhaps I would
as well! No need to buy things if you could acquire any item for free.
This could happen right now in SL if enough good hearted people
started creating replicas of items being sold, and started giving
them away. Is this what we want? Heck.. if so... let's all just
start doing that right now!!

I doubt it. I think (some) people want to make money, and those
people who want to make money should put some serious thought
to a system which allows infinite copies with no expense.




Perhaps you're right.
I'm a bit old fasion to think people would want to sell items for money.
After all, we can look at StarTrek and see that in the far future, with
replicators, it will be very hard to sell things that people can just get
from their replicator for free. In THAT time, people just do "work" in
order to better themselves and the community.
Maybe we can convince all the SL retailers/creators that they are
forcing old world laws on people by insisting they buy items which
they cost nothing to duplicate after the original time spent to create
the first one?





Hmmm... I have about 600 different items of clothes that obtained
for free. The choice of what to wear is SOOO huge that I have not
even had a chance to look at everything I have! People create and
give away more new content every day... there will always be
something new and fresh for free... why should I ever buy anything?

Gabrielle

So, let me get this straight... you're worried that we could have a future in which:

1) People don't put in the hard work to create things because they don't get money out of it.

And this could happen because:

2) People do put in the hard work to create (copies of those) things, and don't get money out of it (because they give them away for free).

There is something of a symmetry I can see here...

I don't think that your hypothetical copiers exist, or at least, exist to an extent that could meaningfully hurt content creation. Creating a copy of a Cubey vehicle would (I imagine) be very hard. The scripts for most sold objects are not readable - one would have to reverse engineer what's going on just by looking at the vehicle. If you're going to put that much work into it, you may as well make your own vehicle from scratch. And while you're at it, you could sell it.

Maybe you don't want to sell it, you give away these things you put huge amounts of work into. That's ok, you're allowed to do that. In this case, either Cubey makes better vehicles than you can and retains a market, or he doesn't, and yes, we potentially lose Cubey as a vehicle maker. But thats ok, because there are all these great free vehicles being made by someone who doesn't even want paying for them!

I don't see a problem with this (unlikely) scenario.

If you like, it's similar to open source OSes - if Linux is as good as commercial OSes, then people start moving over to it, so what?

Seifert pretty much hit it on the head.

Artificial restrictions on production create artificial economies.

Having observed the SL economy in person for the last year, it seems to be running just fine without imposing needless restriction on the creation of copies.

When an item is sold in Second Life, objects are not being sold alone. Objects, complex scripts, documentation and customer support are sold. Duplicating a sufficiently sophisticated product takes considerable time and energy, as the object itself must be re-created by hand, then scripts must be written to approximate its function, Quality Assurance testing must be undertaken to ensure the scripts are functioning as expected, etc, etc, etc. A sufficiently sophisticated product will take so long to reproduce that no incentive exists to give it away for free.

If a product is sufficiently simple that it is trivial to produce a knockoff, the market will dictate a price and value for that simplicity. It may well be L$0. In many cases, it will be much more than that, as regardless of simplicity, people will pay for effective and well-marketed design.

Thus, there is a significant labor cost associated with reproduction of a significantly advanced product. The cost of time and energy is directly tied to the degree of sophistication of the original product and to the quality of the knocked-off product.

Well.. as I said.. if First Life worked the same my views on this might be
a little different.

Your points aboce are not quite accurate, because they suggest that
"1) all people are not going to work hard unless they make money
while (2) all people do work hard, but give items away"

While what I'm really saying is that several people in SL are working hard
and they expect compensation, like Cubey, Munchflower, Anshe
and hundreds of others. They make all or part of their FL income
from their SL efforts. They are actually the ones paying in to the
system enough to make it all work. I imagine that if they stopped
getting an income from SL, they'd stop contributing and getting in-world.

There are hundreds of others that are here for "fun and games",
not interested in making money and will give away anything they
make, and still other anti-capitalists which might even go as far
as specifically try to replicate items and give them away to keep
capitalists from gaining a foothold in SL. There are other situations
which might arise where content creators decide to leave SL, and
as a last "gift", give away all their creations with copy permission.

So, yes.. there ARE those two points, but they are not coming
fromt he same groups of people.




You're right. I don't think they do exist right now. I'm not
suggesting there is a problem right NOW. The point of this
thread is to open eyes to a potential problem with the way
SL current has copy/labor set up for creating new items, and
any capitalists here (like myself) who are hoping to create
content to sell, should be aware of this so we can make
appropriate suggestions and changes.




Well, I'm about a month old have have done it myself with several
items already. I saw something neat... didn't want to pay, so created
something VERY similar, and a couple of times (because of certain
permissions) was able to copy it exactly. I have not gone out and
mass reproduced them because I see the potential damage, although
I have given 2 items to friends with "no copy/mod". But nothing is
stopping someone more talented than me from doing this.

There are people in-world who are VERY anti-capitalist as I've seen
in the forums... that's only 5% of the community? --- most of which
are freeloaders who'd love to have cool new items and pay nothing.
If I was an anti-capitalist, I would form an organisation to create
these replica items and pass them all out for free.. this way all the
people trying to sell items would give up and leave SL... no more
capitalist pigs for them.

Cubey might then make better vehicles??
Well.. if he CAN make better vehicles why is he not making them??

Ooops.. well, I'm not suggesting he can't.... heehee..
But in the mean time.... while he's learning about some new/better way
to make things than he's already doing... his business will not be
making money.. or not as much. When he DOES discover some
new way... and people think it's cool.... nothing stops the replica
makers from doing the same thing again... Cubey and call content
sellers eventually get discouraged, and leave.


I do hope you are right... and that what I see as a huge potential
danger never turns in to reality. But if we can SEE that potential
danger now before it DOES happen, then why not do something
about it?

I gave several other positive points for having to harvest "liquid prim".

I don't hear any negative points that I have not re-challenged.

Why would it be BAD to have to harvest liquid prim before building?

Gabrielle

Before building? Because the cost of prototyping something would quickly rise beyond the means of anyone who is not already a "content baron". It could be a great way for an already powerful group to wield even greater control. Before SELLING copies? Now THAT is an interesting question indeed.

The problem has had well over two years to manifest itself. It has not. "Fun and games" people often do not have the skills necessary to produce the sorts of sophisticated knockoffs necessary to cripple businesses -- otherwise they would be in business themselves. For the few who have the myriad talents necessary to to produce knockoffs of sophisticated products and who have no commercial interest, these people have also been here long enough to respect the sort of work that goes into creating a solid product.

If your product/service can be duplicated, make sure you're making it better than the copy cats. If you can't, find a new product to sell. If you can't, you shouldn't be in business and the market will see to that. This aspect of the SL business environment isn't much different than other information- or software-based business models.

Because prims are electronic representations of procedurally-modified geometric shapes which incur no cost of production beyond the maintenance and electricity provided by Linden Lab. I'm already paying for this with my monthly membership and tier fees. Such a requirement would turn Second Life into a resource hoarding game, rather than the collaborative online environment that it currently is.

I refute that. I think that the stagnation of the video market here, though partly due to the "where is the content" problem, is also partly due to one resident producing a high quality video script, and even a free TV incorporating it. The latest version even allows programs to be selected from a website. All absolutely free from this skilful and generous creator.

Mind you, its not much use really, because there is virtually no content - even the wonderful website, which emails your tv to tell it which video you have selected, had only about 7 or 8 things on it, mostly short trailers or clips, last time I looked. And the standard old b/w classic film streams everyone has.

So who decided not to create their own products because of this ? Me for one (or rather my in-world scripter alt). I had all sorts of ideas about pay-as-you-view tv. Getting residents to create content, maybe even negotiating with bigger copyright holders. I was going to make money with a good tv first, with pay-per-view as an optional extra which could be activated when you got bored with the free content. Build a content pool bit-by-bit. Organic growth.

Maybe (even probably) I would never have actually got anywhere with it (its a lot of work and I don't need the money enough). But it wasn't just me. Many of you may have the wonderful TV system based on "videodiscs" which has sold well in SL for over a year. I visited this well-established creator in Refugio after I saw her announcements of a new pay-as-you view video version. When I finally got there I found an apologetic notecard to say that she had cancelled the entire new plan due to free availability undermining the market.

I may have misunderstood what she was saying, but it looks to me like thats two creators who turned away from this market due to a free product. Who knows, forget my puny plans, maybe if the creator described in the previous para had been encouraged by good sales, she might have gone on to build the sort of in-world media empire of which I initially dreamed, as it seems she did.

Somebody may yet do it, but I'm still waiting. All the possibilities are still there. There is still lots of scope to leave the free one behind, but the lower half of the market is not there to build on. Like having your legs cut off.

How many other people might have got interested in creating and competing in this market if they could have priced a basic tv at say $L50? One or two of them might have gone on and become our video-content kings.

Yes, it sounds like an envious gripe, doesn't it ? And I don't see a solution - creators must have the right to give things away. And there is a RL parallel in the form of Freeware, Shareware, open-source software etc., which I am grateful to receive.

I only spoke up because Enabran thought it had never happened, and I think my example shows it has. My guess there are many other cases too. But how can we ever know what people might have done but did not ? Except in a few odd cases where we maybe considered it ourselves.

No, we know you and your cohorts modus operandi in crippling competition don't we now: harass and neg rate people in competition until they go out of business.

Please stop.

Oh no my friend, a hearty please stop to you and your friends in return.

Which friends might those be?

I believe you are wrong, Enabran. I think closely related things are happening, possibly every day. I'll try to demonstrate it with an example.

I am aware of one case where I think a product area has been adversely affected by a sophisticated freebie. And where the skillful creator of that freebie has posted in forum against capitalism and in favour of reverting the L$ to being "monopoly money".

The product is a free TV, offering switchable-channel quicktime video capability. It even has a program selection website which sets your in-world tv for you. It is available as a script to allow anyone to insert it into a self-created alternative display, or as a complete, polished and attractive home tv. Both are released with full permissions, but a stern injunction that nothing incorporating it, or a modified version of it, may ever change hands at more than $0.

I know of two creators who definitely cancelled plans to compete in this video market when this freebie was released. I suspect the existence of at least a couple more.

The whole endeavour is currently crushed by lack of content. I know that two of those who were deterred had envisaged trying to use a pay-per-view product to leverage a media empire into existence. One might have succeeded if the product area hadn't had its legs and feet chopped off.

If I am right, this is an example of a skilled creator with a stated anti-capitalist viewpoint who has succeeded in using a freebie to constrain competitive entrepreneurial activity. Which may well have been ultimately to the detriment of the community, if what we would have liked is a healthy and diverse set of domestic video products, and one or two media empires working away to bring us (and perhaps even create) video content. I'd love to see a couple of media barons.

Please note, this is not a criticism or attack. And of course my guesses at the creator's motivation, or the product's effect on the marketplace, are just that, guesses. Anti-capitalism is a perfectly valid stance for any of us to take. It's just my personal opinion that it fits better with the "its just a game" viewpoint. I am more interested in growing the metaverse, and for that I think we need healthy commerce.

Crystalshard Foo is a friend of mine, her FreeView TV script is what you're talking about. This FreeView is not a case of reverse engineering a competing product and releasing it for free in order to torpedo a particular developer. FreeView was developed to create a compelling free solution for the new video streaming support offered in Second Life v1.6. A unique scripting task to exploit a brand new set of LSL calls and experiment with a new technology. Much, much different story here.

Individuals are free to create and share their creations as they see fit. Some, such as myself, develop unique, specialized products and sell them for personal profit. Others, such as Crystalshard, develop broad applications and generously share them with the world. Such is the prerogative of all content creators.

Look no further than Download.com or VersionTracker for a similar situation. Some software developers create for profit, others release handy freeware tools out of their own generosity. That's personal freedom for you.

If you wish to create a product that cannot compete with existing, free solutions, you do so at your own peril. If the individuals you mentioned were unable or unwilling to put together a solution compelling enough to beat a freebie script, they probably weren't cut out for the job of creating the "media empire" you describe.

Broadcast television is available for free. I guess the cable companies should just pack their bags and go home?

A business man doesn't make excuses. He makes a profit.

edit: Damn, that's quotable. That was the apex of my pith. All down hill from here.

Excellent! We need more of this!

OK, Getting back to the original topic.

It sounds like you are trying to get something implemented in SL that you only see in such games as Everquest and WOW. I do think it would be fun to have areas where you can mine or harvest this prim juice. It would definately make the game more interesting, but as you see already, many people would bitch and complain about it because they would have to work for it. It would definately open up a new niche in the economy for "Prim farmers" where we could grow crops of prim plants over a set period of time and harvest them into prim juice. This may not be a good idea right now, or even for the current society and workings of SL, but I think maybe whoever comes out with the next SL like game could easily implement something like this.

Like I said, it would be fun. You could have crops to tend to in SL, that actually make you money! of course, the more land you have ,the more crops you can make, so the land barons will cover it quickly. Ok, so you can all start throwing stones at me now.

1. Second Life is not a game. It's a massive online collaborative environment. Like the web, with integrated action figures.

2. People would complain, justifiably, because "mining" prims is a wholly unnecessary activity. I don't have to "mine" pixels to make things in Photoshop, I don't have to "mine" ASCII characters to communicate in Instant Messenger and I don't need to "mine" HTML codes to write a webpage. Second Life is a tool, adding contrivances like artificial production costs via time wasted "mining" for a resource that is by definition free and limitless is not a valid option.

It seems like Second Life has the tools to create a child game just like this. Land could be sprinkled with "prim ore" scripted to give up its precious juice when hit enough times with scripted mining equipment. The raw materials could be carried to some kind of factory where, again, clicking enough times produces pizza, and gnomes, etc.

This game of resources and building could be produced by a player rather than the Lindens, and of course it would be optional.