A challenge to Land Barons

No, it's not first land..... I was 'grief built' off of my First Land after about a week, surrounded by some hideous build with huge purple glowing prims that turned everything purple. I got some advice about the situation, decided to move, and put my plot up for sale for L$4000 which they snapped up within about 2 hours. It was pretty obvious what they were doing, so I thought if I'm going to suffer they're going to as well. Funnily enough I went back exploring there earlier and no sign of the purple build but I did find them by search with a plot with two gigantic penises on it *shrug*

I ended up buying a 1024sqm plot from Anshe, and later I expanded by buying the adjacent plot that was still empty. Sadly all the other empty plots around me have now been bought up so I have to either stay where I am, restricted, or move somewhere else.

I've actually been talking to a few friends in game who feel the same way, and one mentioned that she was thinking of buying a sim and dividing it up amongst friends for whatever cost was involved, and making it a 'group sim' with building codes and allsorts. It turns out I'm not the only one who would like a nice area with a nice view and nice neighbours (not that my current ones aren't) so I guess that is probably going to be the way forward for me - it helps me, and helps her, and helps her friends.

Seems that most people here, for whatever reason, are against my suggestions, so I guess you can all move on to another thread now.

Lewis

Well, to be honest that happens ALOT with cheap land sims, as far as your experience with glowy purple things goes. Heck, happens alot with not so cheap land too lol. Taste and wallet size don't necessarily coordinate sadly.

Now I will admit. Some land barons DO put a major markup on things. But some do enough to cover their costs and then provide a good forum for showing land to people. All a matter of hunting around and finding the right one.

And heck. There are a ton of nicely priced lands out there if you take the time and research. Picked up a nice parcel recently for about 4L/meter in a Mature sim with nice views. Just have to keep your spirits up and search alot. Just like in RL.

As for the group sim idea. Alot of people resort to that these days. And it can be a great thing. But unless it's an island, well in the end you still run the same risks so far as different people wanting different things. And somewhere down the line, someone in that group WILL sell land.

And if its an Island, well the issue there is one person is going to have to foot the tier bill all on their own. So, the rest of the people their will have to pay it to him or her either in Lindens or paypal or what not. Which can result in a bit of a headache too. But it's more than doable. But, I wish you luck in finding what you're looking for.

And....take it thats a no on the half original buying price land offer? heheh

Or, alternatively, you could read and actually try and COMPREHEND whats being written for a change. As I said : It used to be this way - LL went through many different methods to arrive at this one, ergo this does something for them that the initial way didn't.

They tried your suggestion - it didn't work for them, they changed it.

I mean - I would like nothing better to tell you to piss off back to TSO, but that's not what I said.

We should try being more welcoming - sure, but by the same token you should try being less pig-ignorant and thickheaded.

Several others have actually given you concrete reasons for land barons to exist. The reason I have for land barons existing is not that they are needed for your benefit, but that their role is unavoidable unless a suggestion like yours of Linden Labs selling to citizens directly is actually implemented.

You seem to have the misconception that land barons control the populace, rather than the other way around. That is not how economics works. In economics, when you want as much competition as possible the high prices are brought down when your buying, and the low prices are brought up when your selling. The reason it works like this, is that a few people doing the buying or selling can drive prices in the direction that benefits them. A large number of people competing over the sale or purchase causes people to narrow down their prices till they get to an agreement somewhere in the middle. No one dreams up the price, the price is arrived at through the ability to make a trade or not over time and experience. There is alot of land overpriced, but this land doesn't sell to anyone in their right mind.

If Linden Labs did as you suggested and sold the land alone, they would still be trying to get as high a price as they could from you. Not only would they get higher prices by selling less sims, but they waste less resources by selling less sims by not having servers without teir being paid on them. They would probably offer the bare minimum, with all land being in an auction as it is now. This low supply would raise prices a great deal. If they were interested in helping residents out by giving a large (costly to them) supply of land in auction at all times, then the other part of your suggestion of them buying back the land at half price would again make the sellers lose money they invested. As it is now, you can make back much more than half the cost of a peice of land, and you can sometimes even make a profit.



You've had more than one major landowner talk to you in this thread, and I am a minor one with only 3.5 sims.


It's very good you are questioning things. Just realize that not everything that seems to improve things will really improve them in the end. There are people in this thread who have been in the game longer than both of us put together, and some of the "new" ideas people suggest have already been tried before to some extent and failed leading to the way things are now.


Land Barons are not the only possible solution. The problem is that you can't avoid market speculators without taking away the ability of owners to sell. Without competition, prices most likely will go up as Linden Labs limits the land for sale to the point where they make the most amount of money possible with as little expansion as possible. Maybe someday they will try to make more money, and land will become much more expensive as they raise minimum bids or take away the ability for people to re-sell their land allowing them to control the supply.

Out of curiosity, after selling your First Land plot for $7.8 per sm, what did Anshe charge you for the 1024 plot?

Congratulations on finding a nice group who shares your vision. It's not common to find a friend with the means to buy a sim. Good luck to you and let us know what the final costs to you are.

Lewis,

The more you talk, the more you give off the impression that you are too new and need to live the SL life a bit more.

It will all become much clearer to you a couple of months from now.

Although some of what you speak of, and allude to, should already be clear to you as it could be easily explained away by a basic knowledge of economics, the laws of suppy and demand, and the necessary working mechanics of a free market economy.

But I accept your disregard for this knowledge by simply acknowledging the fact that many have crossed these forums with your exact mindset in the past. And all have shared the same socialistic sense of self-entitlement that you have so proudly displayed on this thread.

Its a phylosophical point of view that no amount of economic enlightenment could possibly rationalize away.

One question for the elders. What conditions led to the land prices over the $20 per sm range? How was LL distributing the land at that time and were people paying those high amounts directly to LL?

Well, 1024m goes for about 8000 in that location. I had it up for 5000L's - which would be a 62% (I guess I can trust my on the fly head math after all).



I also thought it was a great deal. I wasn't surrounded by the IBG, but he had a few lots here and there with his display. I saw where it was going so...

And I totally agree with your suggestions... though I still think ineffective is kinda harsh.

Hmmm....... not user friendly, inefficient, time consuming.... any better?

Lewis

To everyone speaking to Lewis Nerd from a more 'experienced' standpoint, I ask this:

Should there be some discount for say, 10 sims, 50 sims, or more? That's the economically natural way of the world, right?

It would also mean that the largest landholder would instantly become just about unstoppable, having been given unbeatable price leverage.

An open question, with many implications.




Many may not like the way he phrased his opening, but I'm sure his views are far more prevalent than the forum crowd may realise.

Personally I'd rather have such people's business for mutual benefit - my tier discount for their tenancy - than try to force views upon them.

Sometimes being new can be a problem, obviously I don't know all the history and whatnot behind it all, but it's never a bad thing to question why, and more importantly we're all as capable as each other - regardless of age - of coming up with a wonderfully easy solution to any issue.

Maybe my original post was written in a more confrontational than necessary way, but sometimes that's just what I do, and I'm sorry if it upset anyone. But as it's clearly an emotional issue, sometimes that's what's necessary to get people to speak their mind.

Lewis

Heh, well if you want to get down and technical, there IS. Not too many people with the economic muscle to afford that many sims in one go. Case in point, the recent start of the bulk sim sales. In which well, only one bidder so they went for a simple $1000US per sim. Which given the auction prices of late for individual sales, is one heck of a discount. Especially when considering the lack of Linden 'Maintenance Zones'. And then in parcelling start with the hefty sum of 7.5L/meter. And thats the low end of their pricing.

But, thats a topic for another thread.

When I joined LL sold land for $1 per meter - and I think $3 in sims such as Tan which was the only way to get to the northern sims..

anything beyond that was buying from another player.

I first noticed higher land prices when there was a lack of land.. I think just before 1.3 came out.

First 'Land Baron' I ever saw was a guy with a horrible sign on his land saying 'pay me 20,000 for this sign' and the land set at at a price even higher. This was in 1.2