A challenge to Land Barons

I want you, any of you, to tell me exactly what benefit you provide to the average resident of Second Life.

Apart from lining your own pockets for very little effort, I don't see that you do anything to help people.

I would like to upgrade from my 2500m2 of land to the next tier, 4096m2. I can afford the extra monthly cost without a problem.

However, I do have a problem with paying over $100 of real money for L$30,000 to pay some land baron for a piece of land that they probably didn't pay a fraction of that for.

Second Life is meant to allow people to be creative. I want to be more creative, and give more to the game - but I do not see how it's right that I have to pay such high amounts of money to buy the land from another player.

I can understand paying more to LL as you are using more of their server space the more land you have, but to spend what amounts to what would feed me for 2 weeks on a piece of virtual land to another player? That's not an economy, it's daylight robbery!

I propose that more parcels similar to "First Land" but of larger sizes be made available by Linden Labs at realistic prices, rather than the unregulated prices that land barons dream up, and skew the economy which in the end makes everyone suffer.

Discuss.

Lewis

It's not right. The land purchase system is broken in SL, IMO. Interesting as an online social experiment but in a situation where people actually want land, the idea that they have to pay extra based on an independent market system is something that could only be appealing to the most deluded of free-marketeers.

Rent rent rent rent rent rent rent rent..

*cough*Hiro Queso*cough*

Not to hijack the thread, really, but does he have anything besides super flat tropical islands? Pretty soon you're going to buy that from from anshe on the mainland (drags topic back, kicking and screaming!!!!!)

70 sims of flat white sand! oh, heaven on earth i tell you!

Lewis,

Land prices are set by LL and the market. Land barons do not arbitrarily set prices. Lets assume a land baron buys a sim at auction for $1200 USD. That land baron has to assume $195 tier on top of that $1200 so thats $1395. Most sims sold at auction are ~59,000 meters.

So...
$1395 (1st month expenses) x 270 = 376,650 L .
376,650 L / 59,000 meters = 6.38L per meter.
6.38 x 4096 = 26,132 L / 270 = $96 USD.

That is the cost assuming the whole sim sells in 30 days and with zero profit for the baron, who has taken a considerable risk.

/me thinks you should be yelling at LL about the prices....

To answer your question:
They add liquidity to the market.

Why don't you run this by LL and get back with us when you get their buy in on it.

Aside from the fact that your numbers are puzzling. $30,000 for another 2048 sm? I think you can do better than that if you look around a bit.

I accept your calculations...... however, do we *need* Land Barons buying up sims then cutting them up and selling them? Why can't we just buy land directly from Linden?

Given your figures, what's the actual *point* of Land Barons? If they aren't going to make much money based on your calculations, I certainly wouldn't invest that many thousands in 'virtual land' that, should LL shut down tomorrow, would be totally lost forever.

I still don't see why you can't buy multiples of a 512m2 plot direct from LL, as many as you want, and just pay your monthly tier. If you need to buy L$ to buy the land at whatever price LL have set, then that's up to you of course.

The resale value ("abandon land" back to LL should of course be below the price you paid, and this is where Land Barons could actually provide a useful service.... buying your land at above the resale value, and selling below the cost of buying new land directly from LL.

Lewis

Apologies...... I meant 4096m2, not 2048m2. I'll bung the suggestion in the hotline and see what they say.

Lewis

Lewis, you said you have 2500 sm now and that you'd need to buy $30,000 lindens to go up to the next level. Won't you be selling the 2500 sm you already own to buy a 4096 parcel?

Which helps people how?

Yes I would eventually, but that's assuming that someone will buy my existing land. There's loads of overpriced land available if you do a search, and I don't really want to have to sit on 2500m2 of 'useless' land for months waiting.

I know I could buy more land somewhere else, but I want everything I own to be together. I have built several 'street' type properties in Sims Online, where the lot is divided by a street down the middle, and neat rows of houses/shops/clubs/whatever on either side of that, and I just happen to find that configuration aesthetically pleasing. So it's partly my fault... but when I bought the land I had expansion in mind, but someone has bought all the land around me and I don't think he has any intention of moving.

Picture of a TSO setup now attached to explain what I want

Lewis

Although not to everyone's taste, super flat tropical islands is what a *huge* majority do want. Why do you think Anshe has created her new sims that way?

What else is offered? Myself, as well as many others, also provide zoning to various degrees. Again, that might not be for you. But it is something else, and it's something else that appeals to a part of the community.

I am pretty sure Azure Islands offers something similar to what you are after Lewis.

Do you want to spend a month flying around trying to find a plot of land for sale? How about spending two months trying to sell a piece of property? Feel like paying double tier for the month you're holding twice the amount of land you really want? If you answered 'no' to any of these questions, then thank a land baron.

These are but a few examples of how liquidity in the land market helps the average SL user. Land barons aren't The Devil. They help facilitate land transactions between ordinary users who have other ways they want to spend their time.

How are land barons the only solution to not being able to buy land?

I'm sorry, I am just not seeing this. If someone wants to sell land, why is it good if they sell it to another SL member who is going to add a markup and stick on a horrible banner before they stick it up for sale? A centralised land sales system would not in the slightest affect the availability of land, or require tier.

Well let's see shall we?

Flying around for a month trying to buy land? Thank LL for having an ineffective "Land Sales" system.

Two months trying to sell it? That's why I suggest that LL pay you when you "abandon" land.

Double tier? See above. You have the choice.

Lewis

Who is supposed to be managing this centralized sales system? LL?

I've just checked, there are currently 6252 plots of land, ranging from 16m2 to 65ksqm, available.

So why does Anshe need to buy another 70 sims to open up, when the existing land, if made affordable to the general public, more than satisfies the current requirements in game for land.

Lewis

So, it sounds like the question you really want to ask is, "why have LL created a system in which land barons are valuable participants?". The answer to that, of course, is because it's easier.

Because LL get tier from Anshe et al.

Yeah, that'll do - they already manage land sales to newbies and own every pixel of the land that's being sold.

So, why didn't you buy one of those plots? Not being snippy, I'm just wondering... Is it because they are in undesirable locations? Oddly shaped? Overpriced (in your opinion)?

The smallest chunk of land that Linden Lab sells is 65,536 m^2. It sells for between $1000 and $1200.

Barons provide you the ability to buy land for amounts less than $1000.

Avoiding paying them should be easy enough though. Just find 15 other people who feel the way you do and buy a sim together. You can each expect to pay about $63. Of course than you have to worry about getting everyone to pay for their parcel and then take on the tier for it. So if that headache is worth less than $40 to you, you have a perfect solution to your problem.

Of course if Linden Labs continues to only sell in blocks of five to ten sims at minimum you might need to find 79 to 159 other people. Which is a little less realistic and is something to be concerned about.

Sure thing. And once they've taken over land sales as well as currency sales, why don't they start managing the sales of all created content as well? Sound good?