A "fine" idea?

No.

This is not REPLACING the current system. It is ADDING MORE PUNISHMENT to those that break the rules.

By doing it by adding L$ value fines, however, we get the added bonus of taking L$ out of the economy via a "sink", thereby increasing the overall value of the L$ if only marginally in each case. Given the number of voilations currently being reported, I think the overall effect would be quite significant.

Right now the only violators that remove L$ are those who get perm-banned and thier accounts deleted. With this inplace, ALL violators will lose L$ PLUS get the warnings/suspensions already in place.

~Jessy

And I don't think 10K is too much to fine a griefer! God I hate griefers.

And I would vote for it except all my votes are for object to object communincations and they're staying there =c)

The only problem here is griefing becomes a good thing because it's a sink. And right now a sink is a good thing ... hmmmmm

I say if fining griefers would help curb griefing then do it, and do it for that reason. We need reasonable sinks however.

If this stopped griefing, then the sink would disappear. This is good for stopping griefing, this is not a good sink.

It's adding more punishments that have no meaning to wealthy people.

Just checked and object to object communications is under review or some such so my votes are freed up. You got all 10 from me. If it can curb griefing AND be a sink then more power to the idea. If it's successful however, it's no longer a sink. I would like to see less griefing =c)

How you figure?

Only people who violate the ToS and CS will be fined, as they are already warned/suspended. It only increases the punishment on those who violate the rules.

I haighly doubt the "wealthy" will do much to jeprodise thier status. I mean, when was the last time you see Anche running naked in a PG sim, swearing like a sailor and shooting everyone with her l337! ZOMG! gun?

LL will still investigate and issue warnings and suspentions, this just adds to it to help the economy and maybe reduce the amount of problems.

That being said, I doubt it will reduce the amount of violators, Chilly. Seems the world, both RL and SL, is full of as******. Remove one, and another take thier place because they think they can't get caught.

Well, if we have to have griefers, let's use them as a resource for our benifit *Grins*

~Jessy
P.S. Thank you all for your votes ^.^

Great Idea Jess, the proposal gets my votes

Excellent idea!

I voted for it.

I'm not against the idea... but would advise caution with it.

People who have nothing to lose are more likely to be griefers than people that are concerned about losing something of value.

If you fine someone into 'bankruptcy' for minor infringements it's more likely to cause them to escalate with the remaining chances they have left in order to "Burn out" rather than "fade away".

If someone is knowingly risking getting banned to be a griefer... they're not going to care too much about losing their L$ I think.
(and probably not likely to use their L$ on anything either... if they're banned for life, all their pocket L$'s go into the sinks anyway.)

The same could be said of mounting warnings/suspensions levied agaisnt a resident. The more they get, the less leeway they would have until they are simply perm-banned.

I feel this fine would cause the ones that do adjust after being fined to adjust faster and not "push the limit" as far. The optimum outlook would be someone getting thier first fine and going "Damn! Okay, let me pay this and quit messing around. Maybe I can build." Idealisting, yes, but ideals are what you strive for to gain somewhere in the middle.

What I believe would happen would be that some may leave because of it, yes, but then those same people might leave simple for getting the warning/suspension. Others will pay "thier debt to society" and change. Working on the same principle as a RL justice system (and yes, I realise most need lots of work irl, but we have to start somewhere.)

Also, as long as the fines are not put up into the tens of thousands of L$ for fines, the only poeple that will be fined into bankruptcy will be those types of persons we do not want in SL in the first place.

~Jessy

Got my vote

You got 4 of my votes (took them from propsals I started because they were well deserved). The only addition to this concept regards Jopsy's bankruptsy issue.

If someone is fined to a point they are in bankruptsy it should add a 'conditional' suspension. 1 week per 100$L in fines. Conditional in that if they use the website to purchase $L (thus using real money to pay their debt to society) and they get back into a positive balance the CONDITIONAL suspension is removed (but any punishment based suspension is still in effect). But if they just can NOT make the money at the end of the suspension they can log back in. Now if they do something stupid and get another penalty before getting back in the black, their TOTAL negative balance will be used to determine the new conditional suspension. Thus if they got a 500$L file to be at -500. 5 weeks later relogged only to get another fine (this one 1000 cause they should increase) thats -1500 total balance and a 15 week suspension.

Any and all fines applied while a person is in the red should add this conditional suspension in addition to the one earned in the punishment itself. This will allow people to attempt to get back on EVENTUALLY to EARN their balance back into the black if they dont have the real world money to do it. And while not increasing the monetary fine for the original posters idea it will help encourage fewer repeat offenses for a portion of the player base.

I have to agree with just about everyone else on this. These are events where actions are already being taken by LL. They have already evaluated whether or not they are TRUE incidents, worthy of action according to whatever standard it is that they use....and if there are too many of these, they do in fact already suspend an acccount, or even ban that account.

So this certainly does not change the punishment system over TO fines, and replacing what is currently in place....rather it ADDS to what is already there. At the same time offering another incentive to behave properly, and learn the rules.

Also, once listed seperately, everyone would be able to see just HOW MUCH of a sink it turns out to be....and we could evaluate just HOW MUCH greiving REALLY goes on. Perhaps it is not as bad as many would think. Kind of an addition to the "police blotter" feature on the main page.

I do not see any problems from it at all, and if there are any, I could not imagine them being very major compared to the positive that would come from it.

I think it is very simple idea, and easy to implement. New ideas are great....and I am going to pull several of my votes from other sink ideas, to this one. It seems to have great support from others, which also makes it the most likely to succeed compared to all of the other suggestions.

Way to GO !

What happens if someone buys or makes a weapon and accidentally nukes 50 people? (When I was making my first car I ended up at Z:-10million so it could happen!)
That's what, 50x $10,000? And how much is $10,000 in US? If the fine is cheap, it'll be easy to pay off. If it's too expensive, Lindens become money-grubbing SOBs and SL loses respect. A possible side could be only charge for 2nd and above offences but I think a better idea is to just extend the suspension periods - Turn 1 day into 1 week.

- Jolan

$10,000L is... $30US Wow, I've had parking tickets that cost less than that.

Judged on a case by case basis. I assume you didn't accidently nuke someeone 3 times?

What happens? Not what you're thinking.

LL already has guidelines set in place for this. Otherwise, that person who acidently nuked 50 people would be suspended for months, not days.

What LL does is take all relevant Abuse Reports and lumps them together to get a whole view of the incident and then act on it as a whole, not in many parts.

50 AR's on one person, about the same time is going to be one big smack, not a bunch of little one's that add up even more. They also take into account things like mistakes. This is why AR reports take so long to see results. LL's manpower is limited, and the wish to do it right and not punish the ones makng mistakes while still correcting and punishing adverse behavior.

LL shows proper restraint and use of the AR's to date. I see no reason for that to change with an addition of another means to accomplish thier goals.

~Jessy

This is a fantastic idea, used in tandem with the currrent system we can teach the griefers a lesson and help the SL economy. I've placed my vote!

Upped votes to 6. This is just a truely needed idea.

Ok took another spare vote and put on this. My other votes are sacred where they remain and thats all i got. Now we dont have 300 yet, we NEED 500. Common people this topic is worth putting some votes on to get it over that 500 mark.

Dump AS MANY votes as you can afford on here. Just for a couple weeks. That will make it break that 500 mark and get the attention of the system. After that you can take your votes back and put on those other things you support but this one is soooo close it needs the extra push.

Oh and..

bump

Yus, 20 people dropping in all their votes would be cool.

Lets try to get the word out to anyone you can think of that may feel the same way about this. I'm sure there are a lot that have not seen the proposal.

You got all 10 of my votes, Jessica! A very good idea.

A link to this thread in the proposal would be nice since the proposal does not explain things fully.

The thread is linked from the proposal.

It's the "Discuss this Proposal" link off to the upper right of the proposal.

And thank you all. I think we all made an effort here. Many have added to what I hatched and it looks like a good plan. We jsut need to get LL's attention now. Passing word in-world as I can, but I don't travel in big social circles. Thank you all for all the support ^.^

~Jessy *crosses fingers and hopes this works for the best*

sounds a good idea. but majority of griefers are newbies on free accounts, and with stipend ending for them, they may not be bothered if their account remains zero or goes negative, since it is practically same for them.

just a thought.