Sorry for another post on sinks, but I think this has merit as it only hits people who are causing trouble not legitimate players.
Let's put a fine on fines in SL. Instead of simply giving a warning, day suspension, 3-day suspention, etc, LL also adds L$ fines to the process.
Proposal 1433: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=1433
Example (with arbitrary figures):
Warning: 50L$ fine.
Day Suspention: 500L$ fine.
3-Day Suspention: 1000L$ fine.
Repeated offenses: Multiplier of fine by number of offenses. (ie 3 warnings = 150L$)
If a resident can not pay the fine, their account is suspended until they do. This might sound a bit harsh, but remember, people getting these fines will have been breaking the ToS.
I'd feel the Warning fine would have to be on a case-by-case decision of the Linden involved (ie Police Blotter reading: Warning issued/Fine waved). Sometimes people just need a wakeup, or perhaps the first warning is non-fined with all subsequent ones being fined.
Not only would it provide a money sink, but would also hit griefers and troublemakers where it hurts. In thier wallet.
Ideas/comments/suggestions?
~Jessy
:::The following is added from posts below (in summary) for ease of seeing all info together. I'm only restating ideas/concerns not comming up with them. See below for posters's actual posts:::
Ideas/Concerns of fellow posters:
1) Concern of ability to pay fines, esspecially for new users. Ideas; Allow in-world balance to go negative instead of suspending until banned, or allow user to pay via creditcard/paypal/etc direct to LL. Possibility to allow suspended (but not banned) residents to BUY L$ only (continuing to prohibit sales, however). Elicting a "Grace Period" after a warning/suspention (24hours after login?) to purchase L$ from Lindex or contact LL to make payment by other means during this time.
2) Concern of new residents being "scared off" due to being fined and not able to pay. Ideas; Allowing LL to make jusdgement calls on to fine or not on minor infractions. Having "First Warnings" as "non-fine", or a combination of the two concepts.
3) Concern of "wealthy" residents "buying" thier way out of trouble. In no way should the current system be removed or lowered. Only adding L$ fines to the current punishments.
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A "fine" idea? |
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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05-31-2006 05:35
_____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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2ndLife Commerce
Member
Join date: 26 May 2006
Posts: 38
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05-31-2006 05:46
Sorry for another post on sinks, but I think this has merit as it only hits people who are causing trouble not legitimate players. Let's put a fine on fines in SL. Instead of simply giving a warning, day suspension, 3-day suspention, etc, LL also adds L$ fines to the process. Example (with arbitrary figures): Warning: 50L$ fine. Day Suspention: 500L$ fine. 3-Day Suspention: 1000L$ fine. Repeated offenses: Multiplier of fine by number of offenses. (ie 3 warnings = 150L$) If a resident can not pay the fine, their account is suspended until they do. This might sound a bit harsh, but remember, people getting these fines will have been breaking the ToS. I'd feel the Warning fine would have to be on a case-by-case decision of the Linden involved (ie Police Blotter reading: Warning issued/Fine waved). Sometimes people just need a wakeup, or perhaps the first warning is non-fined with all subsequent ones being fined. Not only would it provide a money sink, but would also hit griefers and troublemakers where it hurts. In thier wallet. Ideas/comments/suggestions? ~Jessy Funny... What happens when you get a 1-day suspension on tuesday, then get paid your stipends, and payoff your fine with the stipend LL just gave you? seems pointless with the prices you quoted. Make the fines L$10,000, L$50,000, etc... |
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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05-31-2006 05:49
Example (with [BOLD]arbitrary[/BOLD] figures): The fines I listed were examples just to give an idea of the system, not to define it. Also, 10k is a rediculous amount. At that point it would just be cheaper to start a new alt. Long-time residents are not usually the ones breaking rules. So all you're doing is booting them instead of fining them with values that high. ~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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05-31-2006 05:56
Funny... What happens when you get a 1-day suspension on tuesday, then get paid your stipends, and payoff your fine with the stipend LL just gave you? seems pointless with the prices you quoted. Make the fines L$10,000, L$50,000, etc... As to using your stipend to pay the fine; that was the whole point. It sinks the money of troublemakers thereby taking that amount out of the system. Basically they're giving up thier stipend to pay for thier stupidity. ~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Flip Fitzsimmons
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2005
Posts: 2
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05-31-2006 06:08
Only problem I see is the ....they stay suspended till they pay. From what I understand when you are suspended you can't buy money on Lindex. There would be no way for them to pay it to get unsuspended.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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05-31-2006 06:33
Have it automatically drawn from their account. Group liabilities (if high enough) can actually drive your linden total into the negative- you effectively have zero for all purposes, but still need to pay back the negative amount before you can get a positive.
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Bloop Cork
This space for sale.
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
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05-31-2006 06:38
Let's put a fine on fines in SL. Instead of simply giving a warning, day suspension, 3-day suspention, etc, LL also adds L$ fines to the process. Excellent concept, Jessy! |
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Flip Fitzsimmons
Registered User
Join date: 8 Feb 2005
Posts: 2
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05-31-2006 06:42
Have it automatically drawn from their account. Group liabilities (if high enough) can actually drive your linden total into the negative- you effectively have zero for all purposes, but still need to pay back the negative amount before you can get a positive. Maybe a 1 day grace after firs tlog in after suspension. TIme enough to aquire the L$ to pay the fine. Otherwise another fine and/or suspension? |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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05-31-2006 07:15
As to using your stipend to pay the fine; that was the whole point. It sinks the money of troublemakers thereby taking that amount out of the system. Basically they're giving up thier stipend to pay for thier stupidity. ~Jessy Now THAT I actually like  Especially with the amount of grieffers some people claim to have to deal with every day. |
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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05-31-2006 07:27
Conceptually a good idea. Suspensions and in-world fines for troublemakers.
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William Maltz
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1
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05-31-2006 08:00
Conceptually a good idea. Suspensions and in-world fines for troublemakers. Wouldn't fines just be an excuse to keep up griefing? "Oooh, I can pay the fines, I'll go out and greif all day." |
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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05-31-2006 08:08
Wouldn't fines just be an excuse to keep up griefing? "Oooh, I can pay the fines, I'll go out and greif all day." _____________________
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Duke Scarborough
Degenerate Gambler
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 158
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Did you say 'us'?
05-31-2006 08:12
William?
Are you a griefer? |
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
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05-31-2006 08:15
Sorry for another post on sinks Talking about sinks, is talking about solutions. From that perspective, we could never have enough posts on sinks as far as I'm concerned Your sink idea is good Jessi. My only concern with it, if I may play the devils advocate, is that it may cause some of our newer residents, who may never acquire the linden to cover the fine, from coming back altogether. And although it is true that they can buy the linden to cover their fine from the LindeX, how many new residents, who may not have yet had the opportunity to get "hooked" to SL, would be willing to do so? So from that perspective, this approach may work against us. Just something to consider. |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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05-31-2006 08:24
Talking about sinks, is talking about solutions. From that perspective, we could never have enough posts on sinks as far as I'm concerned Your sink idea is good Jessi. My only concern with it, if I may play the devils advocate, is that it may cause some of our newer residents, who may never acquire the linden to cover the fine, from coming back altogether. And although it is true than they can buy the linden to cover their fine from the LindeX, how many new residents, who may not have yet had the to be "hooked" to SL, would be willing to do so? So from that perspective, this approach may work against us. Just something to consider. Just thought of another thing. Make a fake credit card number (PayPal anyone?), register free accounts, go grieefing, get banned, never bother to pay the fee. At least it'll make the practice that much more difficult though. |
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onionpencil Musashi
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 324
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05-31-2006 08:46
well they can already do that, no? i think the point was fines AND the current punishments.
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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05-31-2006 09:33
Talking about sinks, is talking about solutions. From that perspective, we could never have enough posts on sinks as far as I'm concerned Your sink idea is good Jessi. My only concern with it, if I may play the devils advocate, is that it may cause some of our newer residents, who may never acquire the linden to cover the fine, from coming back altogether. And although it is true that they can buy the linden to cover their fine from the LindeX, how many new residents, who may not have yet had the opportunity to get "hooked" to SL, would be willing to do so? So from that perspective, this approach may work against us. Just something to consider. And this reason is why I sugested Linden "evaluation" of the first warning (example: Cursing in a PG sim. Linden-"Bad! Here's your warning. Don't do it again. Fine suspended this time, but the next four letter word costs you 50L$ in fines."  . Or possibly a person's first warning not being fined at all. Only subsequent warnings being fined (If you do it more than once, it's not a mistake).~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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05-31-2006 09:36
Wouldn't fines just be an excuse to keep up griefing? "Oooh, I can pay the fines, I'll go out and greif all day." Not replacing warnings/suspentions with fines. ADDING fines to go WITH the suspentions/warnings. In other words, digging a deeper hole for the griefers while helping our economy ^.~ ~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Wayfinder Wishbringer
Elf Clan / ElvenMyst
Join date: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,483
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05-31-2006 09:44
Sorry for another post on sinks, but I think this has merit as it only hits people who are causing trouble not legitimate players. Let's put a fine on fines in SL. Instead of simply giving a warning, day suspension, 3-day suspention, etc, LL also adds L$ fines to the process. Example (with arbitrary figures): Warning: 50L$ fine. Day Suspention: 500L$ fine. 3-Day Suspention: 1000L$ fine. Repeated offenses: Multiplier of fine by number of offenses. (ie 3 warnings = 150L$) If a resident can not pay the fine, their account is suspended until they do. This might sound a bit harsh, but remember, people getting these fines will have been breaking the ToS. I'd feel the Warning fine would have to be on a case-by-case decision of the Linden involved (ie Police Blotter reading: Warning issued/Fine waved). Sometimes people just need a wakeup, or perhaps the first warning is non-fined with all subsequent ones being fined. Not only would it provide a money sink, but would also hit griefers and troublemakers where it hurts. In thier wallet. Ideas/comments/suggestions? ~Jessy I think this is a FINE idea  _____________________
Visit ElvenMyst, home of Elf Clan, one of Second Life's oldest and most popular fantasy groups. Visit Dwagonville, home of the Dwagons, our highly detailed Star Trek exhibit, the Warhammer 40k Arena, the Elf Clan Museum and of course, the Elf Clan Fantasy Market. We welcome all visitors. : )
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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05-31-2006 10:13
Proposal 1433 added for this idea.
Link: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=1433 Tell your friends if you think it has merit. 500+ votes needed to catch LL's attention for sure, I believe. I think I read that anyway. *Grins* ~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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05-31-2006 12:36
Talking about sinks, is talking about solutions. From that perspective, we could never have enough posts on sinks as far as I'm concerned Your sink idea is good Jessi. My only concern with it, if I may play the devils advocate, is that it may cause some of our newer residents, who may never acquire the linden to cover the fine, from coming back altogether. And although it is true that they can buy the linden to cover their fine from the LindeX, how many new residents, who may not have yet had the opportunity to get "hooked" to SL, would be willing to do so? So from that perspective, this approach may work against us. Just something to consider. Fines only happen if you have a severe enough violation. If one commits no crime he pays no fines. It's all a matter of educating newbies on the matter of conduct inside SL. What we would need is a forced education system when a new account is created. People have a nasty habit of skipping reading of TOS and ROC. |
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Phoenix Psaltery
Ninja Wizard
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,599
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05-31-2006 12:42
I like it!
[stamp] Allocated all my available votes to it. P2 _____________________
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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05-31-2006 12:46
Fines only happen if you have a severe enough violation. If one commits no crime he pays no fines. It's all a matter of educating newbies on the matter of conduct inside SL. What we would need is a forced education system when a new account is created. People have a nasty habit of skipping reading of TOS and ROC. Do they have copies of TOS and ROC in the corn field? I've never been there. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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05-31-2006 13:58
So - very wealthy players can pretty much act with impunity?
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals.
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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05-31-2006 14:03
So - very wealthy players can pretty much act with impunity? They can do that in real life, so why not. |