What about the poor people with no talent?

I went to Perspephone's poetry event the other day and it was fun, even with just three of us. I don't want to pay to attend a poetry reading, and I don't want a prize or money for attending a reading. If someone is only there for money, then they shouldn't be there! Perspephone, art in SL isn't going anywhere! There are plenty of lovers of art and poetry in this world (maybe not all on and free at the same time tho).

This world is so big and it has so much to offer. There is free stuff and pricey stuff, arty stuff and commercial stuff, attempts at art co-ops and political experiments... I love it.

One thing, though -- SL doesn't really hand you anything on a platter. You have to seek out friends, you have to seek out events, you have to seek out cool builds and social experiments, you have to seek out ways to earn money (or free goodies), etc.[/QUOTE]


Persephone's Post: Okay here is my only issue here: If I do the poetry readings and don't charge for them, then I am providing content for free. I am okay with that, and (despite my regrettable post where I declared I wouldn't do them anymore) will probably do one now and then for no cover charge, (This Sunday for instance @ 1pm!) but that will be my equivalent of here's free stuff in a box. As a professional events host, (in SL and formerly in RL) this is work I give back. I will try my best to do a better job about letting folks know about them, though I did post that event more than 24 hours in advance. From now on all events that I post will be posted a minimum of 3 days ahead. The issue is that it still feels to me that my work as a content provider is undervalued by the society it is provided for. If people don't want to pay for events, and prefer to sit under a moneyball, then that is the kind of culture we will have aside from the equivalent of events freebie boxes.

Imagine if all of the virtual 3D content for which one paid was eliminated, and all that was left was the freebie boxes. What kind of world would that be? Or if the public who consumed them, more than expecting the lovely things for free, expected to be paid to take them? Would they still make the lovely things we have? Would consumers pay if they had been used to always getting stuff for free? If that skin that now sells for $3500 had been, all along, given to them for free, would they now pay for it? Maybe with better search tools and something like the equivalent of an arts and culture council (through which interested businesses or individuals could help to subsidize a category of happenings) that landscape could be significantly altered for the better. I have said over and over and will continue to say over and over coz it needs to be said that I am not expecting a handout. I work hard to make stuff happen. I just don't like it that people (the public) seem to think that $5L is too much to ask for an hour and a half of entertainment. People have said over and over that they love my events. I know because I conducted a Research and Development campaign through an informal IM and email survey when the last two events flopped. (I do actually have pictures of as many as 30 attendees for two events. But in the last two weeks it has been a little depressing to see that slack as people experience the actual effects of the cuts. I hope it picks up.) I hope to implement many of the helpful suggestions over the coming weeks and see what happens. Perhaps my hard work will pay off. Or perhaps, the paradigm shift of being paid to go to something and being asked to pay will be too much of a shift for the consumer, and everything other than the uberclubs will die off, events wise. Then perhaps I'll simply paradigm shift and start spending less time making content I can actually make and more time struggling to do something for which I have little natural aptitude. If it were only me in this boat, it would not be an issue for the forum. I bring *me* into it so much because I feel that this is not only *me* in such circumstances.

Interestingly, the class in which I teach newbies how to make simple clothes for themselves has been launched and twice successfully attended. I wonder if this is because there is so little on the mentor event slate (almost nothing) or if this is because people are going to move toward more self-made over bought items. If we All are dressed funny, will it seem so odd? Anyway, Cheers and best wishes everyone. May all of your endeavours prosper. And hey! If you get too stressed, you can always come get a great virtual footrub, back rub or mud rub at the spa! ~ Perse

People are trying to create events like that but the public is not interested. I am offering a Home Design Contest (Interior and Exterior, so everyone can participate) and I have had a very small response in spite of the fact I have spent money on advertising. I also have started a book club and hold Jetball events. People just want to go to clubs and sex it up. *sigh* The people who are trying to make alternative events are just going to give up, (like me) because there is no market for it.


Long live hoeing.

Not that there's anything wrong with free stuff in a box. Sometimes it's really great stuff. And doing something you enjoy can be reward enough. Sometimes.


My comment regarding missing your poetry event was not aimed not at your promotional efforts, Persephone, but rather at the Linden-supplied tools at our disposal. There are so many events nowadays that I think we're outgrowing the events panel.


That's the reason I jumped into this thread; to actively change the direction of SL culture. If you think people should not only pay for objects, but for events as well (a philosophy I happen to agree with), then we should change the way people think about events and the people who host them.


It's a great idea. But it has to be more than just a standard SL group, don't you think?


It seems like quite a bargain compared to luxury expenditures such as rating someone.


Right on both accounts, I think. A paucity of mentor events, and the fact that people really are attracted to SL by the promise that they can build what they imagine.

Pol I have remained quiet because you have put it more eloquently than i could ever hope to and Eboni I sigh with you because instead of having fun and enjoying I too have focused more on earning L's . Sad because i do enough work in RL and to be honest thats one of the big reasons I didnt go for building or scripting or clothes making i get enough of have too's and deadlines during the regular day. I think Pol has the essence of what we all want for the most part...the experience the interaction. I think i got on chip a lil too hard but hopefully he understands its not him personally it is the mindset, he has always been a sweet friend and i hate what i see happening to the world i love. Lets consider another thing as well if rates dont matter anymore how will that affect behavior in our world? Love you all...Tara

No worries Tara. I don't take these things personally at all and tend to enjoy the debate. I still luv ya!

Eboni deserves the golden hammer award cause just hit a major nail on the head

Im all for person being able to express/emjoy themself in any way that is not hurting another. Heck Ive been known to get frisky ideas from time to time; but the sex clubs are on rampage. Unless the landscape has changed since December dramatically (havent been able log in as often last month cause prepping for school)...... you couldnt swing a dead cat around in SL without worring it would get molested in one the 50 billion sex clubs.

Im not a "prude" by any means (please no testimonies from peanut gallery )and see theres a want/need for them, therefore a place for a couple in SL; but how many is needed?!?!!? I remember one day sitting on the bench in newbie area, chilling with Lucid and singing"..in SL we never know what we had till its gone.. they paved paradise and put up another shopping mall.."; when a new player appeared and the usually rounds of welcome commenced. This fella then asked what there was to do here inwhich I replied "hmmm your in SL ya can do anything ya want! what ya interested in doing and Ill help find ya a place to do it." He then replied (should of seen it comming) he wanted to get laid. I said first thing that come to mind.. thats easy, just randomly click anywhere on the map and teleport there.. youll be within 5 steps of a sex club. Welp, it hit me then just where SL has been heading as of late.. cause my reply was only halfway a joke....

Ive seen so many talented people in SL, capable of creating some awe inspiring vistas... a part of me finds it to be a big shame when consider whats been taking over. Maybe we should give some time to see how the changes impact this trend before pass judgement?

That made me chuckle. I guess if there's a bright side to this phenomenon, it has been said that a new consumer technology really takes off when it can be used for sex, in which case LL would seem to have a runaway success on their hands.

I was thinking the same thing when I read that.

[preface: this post isn't oriented at any person in particular]
I make analogies to RL because RL is about human beings and human psychology. SO IS SECOND LIFE. To say SL is a virtual game and "not real" is missing the point at the root of SL is humanity and psychology! Behind every avatar is a real life human being, with their emotions and psychological makeup and creativity, etc. They may act differently in world, but they're psychological makeup is what it is.

Economic lessons from real life apply here, because RL economics is about human psychology, and anyone who says differently needs to look up from their 100 year old textbook.

In RL, you don't often pay a cover for poetry events. Why? Because its an acquired taste, and the demand does not support a cover charge. Coffee shops host poetry events so people come in and drink coffee, or so that a certain intellectual clientele discovers the store. A coffee shop might then pay a percentage of sales to the poetry reader host - depends on the situation. Does the fact that an attendee not pay a cover charge make the event worthless? Not at all! The person hosting the event doesn't do it because they will get rich, but because they love hearing poetry, or they love gathering these kinds of people, or they want to feel like an influencer (a nexus of sorts) within this community...

anyway, my point is really the first part... that RL lessons and psychology do apply here

I suppose, then, that what I need to do is either find a way to live only on the $500/week (which is one part of my goal) and focus on the events I love and not worry about competing economically, OR let my naughty grrl alt continue to subsidize all my other activities (which just means events once or twice a week maximum and less time to visit other places and friends). In one model, I am producing more and consuming less. In the other, I am producing not for the community, but services for individuals and consuming whatever I like in my offtime, but producing very little for the community. UNLESS I can think of the virtual equivalent of that all important cup of coffee to sell at events. The spa being what it is, (a sensual and spiritual retreat is its purpose) it would go against the very nature of the place to junk it up with vendors and advertising, but if there were something else that would tempt patrons, to spend even the equivalent of the cup of coffee, then more time and money could go into producing events. Anyone have any ideas about cups of coffee? People don't pay for drinks in SL (even less likely to do that than pay for arts events). Any feedback folks can give me about what might be saleable to support more events at the spa would be great!

As it is, I am planning a blend of the above approaches: a few pay as you go events, one or two free events, and just fewer of all of the above while i spend time doing other stuff to make money to support the events. Oh! (insert shameless plug here) and the poet's open mics (operating on Forseti's advice and that of others) are now offered for no cover charge. Do drop by with a poem on Sunday and join the fun! ;-D Best wishes to everyone for a great Second Life Weekend.

LOL naughty grrl alt!! w00t!

nice!

If LL really wanted to make money they could tax sex balls.

Jessica

A brainstorm with practically no editing whatsoever:

Try different ways to solicit donations. A temp donation box, rezzed during perfomances only so as to minimally affect the vibe of the spa. Solicit donations to the artists directly (they could throw a hat object on the ground in front of them, scripted to accept payments). Ask for donations at the end of the event instead of the beginning, after the audience has been properly softened-up.

Sell notecard "poetry books". Heck, go the full museum gift shop route and offer particularly evocative lines from poems on t-shirts and stuff.

Sell beatnik-style "poetry appreciation outfits," complete with beret, goatee (particularly attractive on the ladies), Ray-Bans, and finger-snapping gesture + sound to replace the default applause gesture. Bongos sold separately. (Requires a generous creator to donate some time and effort.) And while you're at it, why not sell goddam cups o' joe? Big ones, like in "So I Married an Axe Murderer."

I have five words for you: naughty grrl alts reciting poetry.

Perhaps a poetry reading is not enough; maybe combine things like an art opening with a poetry reading and dancing to make people feel like they're really getting their money's worth (Has anyone cooked up some ballroom/latin dance moves for our avatars?). Maybe in the context of SL the poetry (or painting, or music, etc.) isn't the art, the event is. An arts council (as suggested by the erstwhile Persephone) to coordinate these things isn't such a bad idea.

That's all I gots, and I ain't gots no more. For now, anyway.

great ideas Pol. And great thinking Persephone. And I'm gonna give you a grant/donation/contribution/whateveryouwanttocallit when I log in.

Appreciate the suggestions and awwww thx Forseti. (Inserts another shamless plug here) In addition to the free content of the Poet's Open Mics, we also offer free mudsuits and facilities use at the spa, so stop by for your free mud suit and look like a nudie mud wrestler!

and OOOO good idea to the museum gift shop idea. That will take some thought and work but I will definitely crunch on it and see what can be done in the space with the redistribution of pixels. Ty for the ideas: no one person ever has all the good ideas, but Pol you certainly have a number of them!

Please, don't try and mix words. From the simple tone and choice of questions, you make it very apparent your negative feelings towards the changes.

First off, cute name Triminda... but again I feel the need to clarify a misleading statement. People talk about free money but in fact, the only free money (the $50 stipend each and every person is guaranteed who plays SL) continues. Every other amount of money people get in SL is (however loosely) tied to behaviour or spending. What has been cut was not free money: the free money remains. What has been cut was money that seriously helped events hosts such as myself. Ratings money (the cut of which is less important to me than the arts and culture grants that the prior events funding provided) was earned by a number of people who did not game the system but genuinely earned their ratings. This money has been cut: not the free money that is the ever-robust stipend. Never fear, welfare continues at Exactly its prior rate. ;-D

Maybe you should just come out and say it less words and avoid people like me, by saying "I was getting more free money before for nothing. I enjoyed this as I could go out and buy stuff or sell it on GOM. Now, I don't get this free money, and the old ways of getting more free money doesn't work. I'm pissed."

My two L$ for what they're worth.[/QUOTE]

Yes i second this, without you my jetball arena would be a dead place :/ its a shame ppl just like to idle in some clubs instead of playing games (and many are free)

moving your ass if itsnot to get money isnt worth , well it seems its how its working

(IM me inworld when you plan to do the next Jetball match, i might come add some spice to it)

I'm going to split hairs with you Persephone. Agreed that event hosts were not getting free money. They were getting new money directly from Linden Lab who decided to subsidize event hosting in the hopes that it would create a more valuable experience for users.

So, not free money, but definitely subsidized money that other producing members of the economy. I define "producing" as anyone delivering a good or service to SL consumers.

Now I agree that it is harder to get money from delivering a service than delivering a product -- this has usually been the case in human society I would warrant -- but regardless of whether or not that is fact, LL clearly decided that events were at a point where they could (or should) stand on their own two feet and survive or die without subsidized help, just like a scripter or a merchant or a landlord.


As for welfare and rating bonuses, I continue to argue that LL needs to make RL currency / L$ currency exchange more seamless with the existing GUI. They have cut one source of income for a group of the population, and it is in their interests to strengthen a trusted and easy-to-use source of L$ as a replacement. There are risks involved, sure, but risks abound when you are trying to successfully make the most advanced virtual economy ever seen.

[p.s. - thank you for the "plaque" you sent me in-world! unexpected and v. nice of you. Keep me posted on events (cause I never remember to look at the board)]

I hereby declare my own business, where you pay me a nominal fee, I hang out with you, thereby making you look SO much better by comparison. Yes, you heard it here first, Shadetree will be a Wingman for Hire. Ok, now I got a job, gimme the L$'s!!!!

You would be incorrect to reject comparisons. It is all rl. People exchange currency. People exchange ideas on these boards offering solutions they have seen or implemented in rl. I don't care if someone calls it a game but this game has elements that draw on our rl knowledge and experiences. So, for this topic certainly, it is entireley appropriate for people to offer comments/suggestions based on their rl experience.

Here we are again with the eco, pariahs of SL spouting their know how.You think that cancelling event support was a good thing?

Go check out the events page....TRINGO TRINGO TRINGO TRINGO

Where we once had a thriving social community we now have rooms full of people sat like zombies for 3 hours at a time trying to scrape enough money to buy a pair of jeans.

It might help, then, to develop a perspective and a real life. Realize, for example, that however liberating and full of potential Second Life may appear to be, it's just a small and very limited game with some interesting features. The best people here don't give it a great deal of energy, the worst people here make a profession out of griefing, and the troubled people here can't resist making it a centerpiece in their lives.

Wear a single set of clothes, maybe two sets. Own a little land and fool around with it. Go to a club, play tringo, whatever, once in a while. Do whatever makes you feel good. And get the hell out of Second Life often.

My life isn't centered around Second Life, but I do spend as much time as possible here, because I've met some great people that I really want to get to know better. i have two sets of clothes, a good skin, "THANKS MUCH WHOEVER THE HECK THAT WAS THAT GAVE IT TO ME", and am working on learning to build things so I don't have to worry about buying them. I spent a good long while at the sandbox last night, building a house, for when I finally scrape together the scratch to buy my first land. I had no idea what I was doing, but it turned out to be fairly simple, ya make a shape, you attach it to another shape, lather, rinse, repeat.

I'm actually kinda proud of how it came out. I'm figuring things out as I go. This place really isn't that difficult, ya know? It's mostly taking this thing, and sticking it to that thing. Spend a little time, work with what they give you for free (meaning, the ability to create something from nothing) and run with it. I can guarantee, after a bit, you'll find it fun and rewarding.

I couldn't believe the sense of pride I felt looking at a house I built myself. It's not the best thing I've seen here, but by god, I made it. It's simple, it's rudimentary at best, but I'm happy with it, and I'll only get better, the more I play around with it.

Shade