Simple economy fix - LL, are you listening?

Probably the part you left out. Anyone can paint a picture, but it doesn't make 'em Rembrandt.

I am aware that there are more terraforming tools in the 'estate management', but as I do not have a whole region to play with, I haven't taken a great deal of notice of the details.

Lewis

Ah, so you actually don't know what you're talking about.

Go get 'em Don!

The OP apparently admits alot of money is made, particularily where revenues are available in lesser advantaged countries and economically depressed regions of the world.

Hmmm? Why would an apparently international person, speak from the "IRS" viewpoint?

That is solely, an American agency.

Very suspicious, indeed.

Basically you just form a huffed opinion because of your personal view look at SL as a whole please. You have no knowledge to back up what you say other then what you think is right...

Thank you Lewis, that answers my question, plus many others, perfectly. I won't try to argue against you. Just keep it in the back of your mind that most sucessfull people read those "worthless" books, and that if you ever want to become sucessfull, you may need to do so as well. If you're happy being where you are, then you might not need them.

To answer your land question. Land sales requires being willing and able to lose. You have to have the finances lined up, or have the ability to create something that creates money to invest with, or "invest" in learning the language of investors so you can get another investor in on the deal. And you have to be willing to use a percentage of earned money for investment, rather than spending it. You have to be able to sell the land effectively, and deal with others on a fair and even basis. You need to be able to evaluate risk, and take the ones that are more likely to return your money for you. Most of all, you have to learn moral ways of investing (they are out there), and be comfortable with them. If you inherently believe that money is evil, and that, as you put it "for every person that 'wins', many others 'lose'", then you will only be doing yourself damage to enter the investing arena. I would recommend that you stay as far away from investing as possible until you resolve that delima. You will only be throwing your money away until you do.


For those who are interested. (Don't know if there are any, please pardon me if there aren't.) I have a few books that have helped me immensely:

1) Think and Grow Rich. (Pay special attention to the "three feet from gold" story. It has greatly aided me in being able to spot an opportunity early.)

2) The Richest Man in Babylon. A great help in setting up yor personal finances so you can actually afford to take calculated risks in investments. Inclueds a section on how to afford saving and tything at the same time if you happen to be in a religion that recommends or requires it.

3) Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and the rest of that series. A great help in understanding the dynamics and ethics of wealth.

... true, but then again so far I haven't come across much that's particularly outstanding either. What do people want mostly? Square, flat parcels that they can build up to the edges of.

But it all comes down to the same argument... we all have exactly the same tools, it's how we use them that matters. I'm quite sure that even the best are currently only scratching the surface of the potential that SL has to offer - but for much advancement from what we have now, there has to be some major technical changes including the removal of lag.

Lewis

Lewis

After reading all 9 pages of forums have to ask. Are you an idiot or do you just play one on SL. I hope its the latter am sadly afraid its the former Either way please go away

Not suspicious at all. Most online games I know are full of US players, and I have heard many complaining about their annual tax return.

Incidentally, in the US it's called the "Internal Revenue Service". In the UK it's simply the "Inland Revenue" .... not too dissimilar.

If you don't believe that I happen to live in London, that is entirely your choice. I know the truth, and you are unable to prove otherwise.

Lewis

I have every right to be here, as much as you do. I pay to play SL, and the forums are part of what is available in return for having an active game account.

I'll leave when I am ready, not when you or anyone else tells me to (unless their name ends with "Linden" in the form of a ban) Deal with it. Just because I challenge your views and am not afraid to say I don't like them does not automatically make them invalid, as many of you are trying to make out.

Lewis

Wow, ignorance is bliss, I suppose. Anyone who streams audio in SL could tell you, visit their land, they can tell you what neighborhood you live in.

I don't agree at all. Linden Labs put this in as sort of a 'stock market', so people could make money without paying so much for it. LL makes plenty of money from members alone.

Yes lewis you can dither and blather about all you please I simply warn you as a curtesy to be wary ofthe fate of Prok. You could be next and LL may just decide to slap the annoying bug you are and end your rantings.

Hmmm...Do you think they had a party when Lewis left TSO?

I hope you people understandhow the LindeX Exchange works...

It is litterally an EXCAHNGE. When you are converting L$ to $ you have to wait for someone to convert their $ to L$. In this was people can sell rediculous amounts like L$1000/1$
or L$1/$1. So as long as the 'banks' don't continue to hoard over money, then release it like a flood on us, the Market is NOT repeat NOT going to fall into a stock market crash, like happened to the USA.

Ok well my ramble switch just stopped turning on, So i be gone now.

Wow.. how to begin?

Lewis, I've read all you've had to say and I've concluded thus:

1) You are largely (and self admittedly) ignorant of many aspects of the 'game' which would disqualify you from intelligent comment on them or their impact on the 'game'. This makes any valid statements you might have communicated completely null and void. While I agree people should have fun in SL, fun is an extremely subjective topic. Your fun is not my fun, and you do not seem willing to accept this point of view, which makes this discussion rather one sided.

2) You do not see to be willing to actually discuss or accept the views of other people, but rather seem determined to force a very limited and narrow viewpoint onto others. You've demonstrated some level of bitterness and resent towards people who do manage financial gain in SL, and to a lesser degree those with 'talent' who employ it to better their secondlife experience.

3) You have little to now knowlege of how the Lindex works, and I doubt you have less information about how Linden Labs finds their business or manages those funds, which doesn't really allow you to make an intelligent recommendation in either case at this time.


The only reason the linden keeps falling is because the players drive it to such. The lindex is a lot like Ebay. It is only a facilitator of transaction between two parties, a neutral third party if you will, and LL takes a nip of each transaction in the form of a service fees. Real life banks and financial institutions do this as well. It is an extremely sound business model, and I have no doubt that they make some degree of money from it, however, it is likely the volume that is lacking. Most tech companies run in the red for several years until they reach a magical threshold or market that turns them around. Amazon.com ran in the red for YEARS. But they do make profit now they have established their infrastructure, and this is what we are experiencing today.

The way to fix the falling linden is actually very simple. If no one, and i mean NO ONE sold their lindens for less than say... 250L/1$, that is where it would stay. But as people are naturally competitive, they will undercut each other. This starts a cascading effect of the 'falling linden'. The only people to blame are the players who try to undersell each other. Linden labs has little to do with it. They don't actually buy them from the players or sell them to the players, the only way they give them out, as far as I can tell, is through stipedend or special incentives such as dwell or other projects. Otherwise, players simply trade what is out there. I've been watching the market and it follows a rather steady rate of falling near the end of the month when people sell their L$ to make ends meet, either for tier, bills, or whatever. And then it will slowly climb back up (not nessisarily to former levels, but still, higher than the beginning of the month) to about mid monthish, whereupon it begins to fall again. Thus far, it seems extremely cyclical based on the realities of the real world.

There was much bitterness in several posts, particularly those concerning talent and money. While you have the right to say what you don't agree with in SL, I have the right to tell you STFU. In reality, while people might refer to SL as a game, I wouldn't class it as such. The reality is, its a cross between a glorified chat room and a kind of odd ball development platform. Unlike traditional games, there are no goals preset. There is nothing specific you must accomplish. There is NOTHING you HAVE to do. The tools are there if you WANT to do something, but there is no direction, no story, no competition, no winning, no losing. There are no levels or powering up. The only things of that nature are there at a player's whim who has spent the hours, time, and $s nessisary to create that experience for other people to enjoy. In this way, SL is a platform that is not so different from any development platform. Its like if someone hands you a .NET development kit and says "Go!". And like in real game develoment, it takes the master of several external programs such as Poser, Photoshop, and sometimes video programs to make things really come together. So not only must you master SL's interface and programming language, but then you are faced with a whole new challenge if you want to TRULY make something amazing.

Indeed SL might be the same for us all, but it is like a pencil. I am an artist. I've been to art school, I make my living doing art for other people. If I take a pencil and I give it to you, you will do one thing. Give me the pencil and I will do something entirely different. It is in that glorious difference that we find individual expression and enjoyment in SL. You might write with your pencil, but I draw with mine. If you want to think "outside the prim", you have to acknowlege the world beyond your very limited perspective. Unless you've walked a mile in my shoes, or anyone else who's responded to this, I don't think you are qualified or have the right to try to force LL to change their wonderful world to suit your personal viewpoint and prejudices.

Personally, I think its a great thing that people can earn money with SL. People who would otherwise be religated to social assistance and saddled the feelings of helplessness that comes with chronic disability or illness are given a chance to feel useful, appreciated, and give something back for the money they need to live in the real world. I think its great when people find innovative ways to benefit the world of SL and still manage to at least have it pay for itself if not do better. But there are key words in there. I like to see people benfiting and contributing to the world. Making profit to the detriment of the world (camping chairs are an example), and the people in it, is not cool. But it sits no different with me in the real world either. I prefer to see people succeed on the merrit and benefit of their projects, and I really hate seeing someone get rich by screwing a lot of other people over. I believe firmly that artists, programmers, and other content creators have a right to have compensation for their work. A lot of people think that art should be free, but reality is, it takes a lot to create a good peice of artwork. And a beautiful hand painted texture in SL is truly a work of art. I've also seen some builds that were magnificently done that perhaps I might be able to emulate, but they wouldn't be 'inspired' in the same way the originals were.

This might be your place to enjoy yourself, but it is also my place, and everyone else who has responded to this thread. We all enjoy ourselves here in different ways because there is no one way to enjoy life or a second life for that matter. If people want to spend their money here, its their business. If people want to gamble here, then thats their business. If people want to sell their artwork here, thats their business. You don't go around in real life and dictate how people spend their vacations do you? Financial competition is about the only true constant in secondlife, the only visible and immediately understandable 'goal' if you will to most people who come here and see this world as a 'game'. Is it really any wonder why people latch onto that aspect of the game so firmly? To those who want to 'win' its about the only visible option there is.

While you might have 'the best interests' of your fellow players in mind, I would remind you that 'the road to hell is paved in good intentions.". You might mean well, but your suggestions are far to ignorant to be useful and cause more harm than good in this case.

RE: quoted below...

Yes, quite a comparison. I too, do not resort to sex clubs or money giveaways, nor am I a 'popular' destination for either digital content or land, save out of raw merit.

So allow me to address:

1) What chance do you have of making it big.

2) The rich / poor divide.



To number one - I'd say actually, everyone has a good chance. Make a mistake? Start over. I've certainly made mistakes, I'm still making them, and I'm still learning from them.

Those determined enough, those dissatisfied enough will eventually find a way to succeed.

My question to you: what is 'big'? How do you define success?

If 'big' is defined as covering expenses for a piece of land of size "X", by all means, borrow a business model that works. I still consider myself fairly small time, but if my level of success interests you, copy my business model for West Trade Imports and Caledon. Nothing is hidden.

Incidentally, I built up everything from a 72 USD premium account. My goal was to pay off tier on an *extravagant* purchase late last August: 4096m of PG land.

I gave myself a year to be making enough; failing that, I'd sell the parcel. Things turned out a little better than I had hoped for.


To number two - the rich / poor divide - is it really rich / poor?

Perhaps it is "willing to give it a shot" / "play it safe". Play it safe is a very, very expensive option, in my view - a luxury I have yet to enjoy.


Just thoughts. This may sound odd, but I do appreciate where you are coming from, Lewis, and have great interest in Second Life being successful for the regular guy. That could only help me, overall.

Wow. Like seriously, WOW. No matter how much I look at it, I can't believe someone actually said that.

Jlulian,

Most of these folks are the fools you see rioting in the
streets at WTO/World Bank meetings. They can't understand
your logic. You are speaking rocket science to these lunatics...

Obvious comeback: If the economy is so unimportant, why are you ranting about it?

Rational comeback: That 30ish people out of 168,000 are vocally active on the forums is probably more likely due to the disappointment in the rabid frothing senseless arguments that erupt here than anything else. If my top concern was making money via SL I'd be more wisely focusing my efforts towards that end, and or talking with Linden Labs directly, not barking at the moon here.

Nit-picky Semantic comeback: Actually no, the 30ish vocally active people out of 168,000 are "saying" that the economy IS important. The silence of the rest isn't 'saying' anything.

Annoyed at having my point ignored comeback: @(#$(&@#$8

My last word. To this thread I will not come back: Thank you for the valueable lesson. Apparently, if I want any thread I start to be actively responded to I'll need to learn how to be more aggravatingly irrational.

--
*shaking head in disbelief*

This is the 'feel good' thread of the season! Two very enthusiastic thumbs-up!

If i have to use a toilet in here im leaving!!!! IF i get 1000L for using one then i mite change my mind

*looks away*
*looks back*

No it's still there!

*marvels*
*pokes it with a stick*

The flash is much quicker then a stick and any money you may think thisis worth
Hi in down here now