Prices Doubling?

I'm a premium who owns almost a 1/12th of a sim.

That just tells me your SL revolves around you.

LOL... like, YEAH. That's the point. BUSINESS...



Imagine all you want. Seems your strong suit.

Look Dmitri... SL is different things to different people. To some it's just a game, and that's how they treat it. To others it's a business. The same holds true for RL yes? There are people that run around playing all the time, and people that are more serious than that. SL may be a "glorified chat" to some folks (to you obviously). To others it is far more... it is a virtual society with all the twists and turns.

No, I don't own an island and don't have any friends who do. Your point?

Some People Own Resturants
Other People Eat at Resturants

For the Resturant Owner it is a business
For the Diner it is a luxury not to have to cook for the night.

Case closed

Ulp, you're right. You did mention that back there. Hard to follow the constant posting this thread is getting.

But if I'm not mistaken, did I remember you hollaring about LL potentially eliminating L$ stipends for freebie users. Or did I misread?

That's completely not what he's saying. What he _is_ saying is, you are paying your RL expenses from income you get by selling virtual luxury trinkets. I.e. things people can happily do without when push comes to shove.

Which is as fine way to make a living as any. But until not buying things in SL leads to avatar death and account deletion in short order, anyone who tries to apply the "grocery stores charge more and people are still paying" analogy here is in for rude awakening. Because they are mixing up two entirely different kinds of goods.

Nothing in SL has real world value as it is unuseable in ANY other place than SL. You do NOT get the geometry files, you do NOT get the scripts, you do NOT get the textures. The best you can hope for is to attempt to copy what you got in 3DS Max or some other proggie. How can something that I don't own have real life value? It doesn't. When you buy a car IRL no one tells you you cannot operate it in Canada etc. You own the car and can take it wherever home is. And BTW as far as magazine articles, part of my job used to be writing commercials. Pay me enough money and I can write a very convincing one, whether it is true or not. Same goes for that article you so blithely mentionned. And you can ask Selene about my skills at writing and even voicing commercials. She knows by direct experience as I did her's for her.

No problem

No, I was actually for basic stipends being cut. I would just have preferred a trial period of a few weeks before it was shut off, a time limit to encourage premium.

Katana: Joannah's right. And yes, case closed. owning an island is another great example of a LUXURY. You don't have to own it.

how is it different?

its a product.
you can either chose to buy milk or not
you can chose to pay to play SL or not

you dont need milk to live
you dont need SL to live

life is the same whether it is virtual or real, it's all in your head.

you can buy a 3 bedroom home and live in luxury
or you can live in a homeless shelter and have food handed to you daily.

you can pay for a land and build a virtual environment.
or you can just pay for your cable bill to chat online.

point is there is real hours spent and real money, therefor making it a real job.
I rather work here in SL then work at McDonalds for Min wage flipping burgers, but I am damn sure not working here in SL for less then McDonalds.

You need food to survive. You don't nee Katana's latest thingamabob in SL to survive. Thats the difference. not understanding that..is kinda sad. Price your stuff too high and people stop buying, and then were will you be?

As far as "SL has no RL value"... ok, a matter of opinion.

Here are the facts behind mine.

The virtual items I sell on SL bring RL people RL pleasure.

The virtual items I sell on SL result in a virtual currency that has RL value.

The virtual art that is created on SL is still art, regardless of its virtual nature. Art transcends medium. Just because the medium is pixels rather than oil does not eliminate its RL value. It may not draw the same payment as a "RL" painting.. but it is RL art nonetheless. It just exists on a virtual canvas.

Tell Anshe that "SL has no RL value". She seems to enjoy a good laugh now and then.

You are absolutly right, you don't have to own it, but also you don't have to visit island either.

I own my island and this is the honest truth because it makes other people happy and I help others by providing an outlet for them to sell in. Half of my island is other people luxury there is no profit in it.

but my shop on my island is not a luxury for me, it pays my RL needs.
Gas, Housing, Food, Computer, Electricy, Cable bill, Medical bills. Those things infact do not give a rats ass that stipend is being cut, or that people are getting more Lindens for their dollars, but the price of RL expenses do not STOP going up. there for I can not Stop working hard to have dinner ont he table and I will NOT go on wellfare and foodstamps.

I refuse to be anything other then an independant woman.

Jonas, you need food to survive. Do you need the toaster to toast that bread to survive? Do you need the car to go buy the food to survive? No, you could build a campfire, you can walk.

That doesn't make a toaster or a car any less real. The analogy doesn't seem to hold up.

Now yes, there are items on SL that are totally unnecessary to existence in RL... or even SL. They are "luxuries".

Do we have needless luxuries in RL?

you are right, btw I am a skin maker one of the highest competitive skills in SL.
people dont need to have a skin it is a want, I do understand it probably far better then you do. I price my stuff according to my time. People chose to buy it or not. But that is no different then a RL product. people chose to buy it or not based on want. you can by a Kmart sweater for 5.99 or buy the name brand sweater at sax 5th for 59.99. its a want so is SL. but it does not change the fact that beyond the buyer there is seller and a business and they pay for their RL needs with their business.

I supose if people stopped buying my prduct I better either make a new and better one out there or lowe prices. Sorry one option just isnt feasible so I better work harder at making a better product.

wow sounds alot like business in RL too.....blue is the new red *in her ditziest valley girl voice*

Because not all products are equal. For details, please look up "Maslow's Pyramid", should be plenty info on it on the 'net.


Uhmm no. why do you think it's called "virtual"? Because it is _not_ real.

My avatar not eating food for months and prancing around naked in the middle of snow-filled sim with particle blizzard in it has no influence on my being. Trying to do either of these things in real life.. you obviously can tell there would be actual consequences to it. No matter if "in my head" not eating food in RL is a great idea that shall make me no harm.


Yes, and my point is, ultimately your customer does not care. They don't care if it takes you hours to make something, or if you pay your RL expenses from the money you make by selling virtual items. As far as they are concerned, they are buying a toy to entertain themselves. If this toy is priced at level they perceive too high, they won't buy it. Simple as that. And no amount of stomping feets and analogies of gas prices is going to make them change their mind. Because lack of a flexi dress or 3 bedroom virtual house ultimately makes no practical difference. Unlike lack of gas in the tank of your car.

you are damn straight not all products are equal!
*amazed you realize that*



of course it isnt real! that doesnt change the fact your cable bill is real, your electricy is real, the computer you are talking on is real.
*there is no spoon*
but people are plugged in.



nope but if you never log off for months and just keep pranicng around naked your RL fails to exsist like a nomral human being.



are you my customer? have you ever bought anything from me?
stop speaking for them.

yes they are buying entertainment. that is the point. people have to provide them with good entertainment or they will not keep endorsing it. Do you watch movies? if so do you buy a crappy movie on DVD? no u buy the ones that you enjoyed.

you are dancing around it and trying to nit pick it now, when it does not change the fact people are working here.

if linden lab went bankrupt becasue all the members said oh this place is boring and so waht it isnt real. you going to tell the employees of linden lab when they are out of a job oh sorry you cant pay your morgage it isnt real.

as i said earlier your SL revolves around you.

you obviously haved not worked as hard as many people here to fight for value.
it is clear to me your only interest is to devalue artisic skills, which btw is a REAL thing.

I walk to work pretty often, my car is a luxury. I happen to have found an apartment within 15 minutes walk time so that I could.

Unlike many who post on these forums, you have sound reasons. You are also fortunate that you can afford the luxury of owning that island, and paying bills with lindens earned. If people feel your work is worth it, they will continue buying, I am by no means saying boycott everyone who sells lindens. What I advocating is people who say people must raise prices etc. not everyone sells lindens. To those of them like me, the linden exchange rate means nothing. there are people in every walk of life, even in SL.

I do wish you luck in your endeavors.

only reason I can afford to have an island is because I use RL business skill. I started with my first land here too in 2004. I bought Linends to buy more land as an investment. taking it slowly building and establishing. Nothing was given to me here for free I worked for it, ask anyone who knows me well, its real work to keep it too.

I am not upset with anyone that doesnt want to buy or sell or make goods here either, its a total personal prefrence. Many content creators here make things because they truely enjoy it and it is a reflection that they do in their work.

my point in this whole debate is it is still work.

if you own a RL store in business for yourself. The Mall owner raises the rent, would you not mark up the prices to cover the rent and still live comfortably? any smart business person would.

that really is my point. just because we have virtual business doesnt make it any less of a business.

thanks for the wishes on luck positive energy is a good thing.

Don't see anything in there predicting the specifically two week ago decline, when the devaluation seems to have doubled in its rate of decline from before. This happened before the buy/sell orders were implemented, too. I still don't know what caused that, either.

Well, that makes one of us. You on the other hand had to ask.

(try the snide route, you'll only get snide treatment back, sorry. If you're interested in actual nice discussion, play nice please)


And all these expenses have no relation to fact if my avatar owns 3 bedroom house in SL or not. That's apples and oranges...


Yes, quality of RL gets affected by allocation of RL time. Note absence of virtual aspect here -- it's because it matters squat what is it that you actually _do_ in the virtual life during that time (as long as there's no direct ties back to RL, like cashing out virtual currency)


That was "your" in general sense of a customer, not specifically regarding people who buy items from KatanaBlade Anubis. And hey, everyone in this thread feels entitled to state their opinion on how people are expected to react to changes in question. So you're quite out of line here trying to play the host.


This makes me wonder, do you actually understand the point am trying to make? because it goes like this:

* merchants in SL are selling virtual entertainment items
* which means demand on these items is likely to be highly dependant on price
* but unlike in RL, price of item in SL can be perceived on _two_ separate levels:
a) value measured strictly in the in-game currency
b) or as converted to RL currency
* people who get their SL income through in-game means and with no ties to RL (not cashing their earnings out etc) are given to see prices using the a) approach
* people who either buy their SL cash with RL money or cash out their SL income, are likely to see it more in b) way
* thus increase of prices based on RL/SL currency exchange ratio is likely to have no effect on the latter group, but it does have effect on the former group
* and because items sold in SL are all luxury items, this sort of price change can have noticeable impact on the former group. Per usual economy mechanics.

that's all there is to it. It's just to point out no matter how loud people will screech "but it's still the same value in real dollars", some of people _will_ see these price changes as actual price increases, and react accordingly. The real question is i guess, how large part of regular customers that group makes. But that's something we're bound to find out.


I like my discussions with arguments that are actually dealing with the subject at hand, instead of ad personam attacks especially when these are based purely on your guesswork, thankyouverymuch.

To this I just have one question. How does a web site, or an online newspaper, have real world value? Some of them still earn a lot of money, but they're just on your screen with no tangeables. So how do they have value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaBlade Anubis
you are damn straight not all products are equal!
*amazed you realize that*


Well, that makes one of us. You on the other hand had to ask.

(try the snide route, you'll only get snide treatment back, sorry. If you're interested in actual nice discussion, play nice please)

Just because I am amazed has no reflect on you personally, debate if you wish don't take my moment of suprise someone realizes all product are not equal in the last 2 hours too personal.


Quote:
of course it isnt real! that doesnt change the fact your cable bill is real, your electricy is real, the computer you are talking on is real.

And all these expenses have no relation to fact if my avatar owns 3 bedroom house in SL or not. That's apples and oranges...

if it is apples and oranges then i supose having those physical things has no effect on the fact you can reply and debate here, and log into the virtual world and sit in your 3 bedroom home in SL. Not sure how other people do it but I have to use a computer that cost money, pay for cable, and electricity to reply to this post....


Quote:
nope but if you never log off for months and just keep pranicng around naked your RL fails to exsist like a nomral human being.

Yes, quality of RL gets affected by allocation of RL time. Note absence of virtual aspect here -- it's because it matters squat what is it that you actually _do_ in the virtual life during that time (as long as there's no direct ties back to RL, like cashing out virtual currency)

but artisitc skills and technical skills that people pay to go to school and learn to develop a virtual business is tied to RL. it doesnt matter that I use lindens and cash it out or use paypal to collect real dollars for my skills.


Quote:
are you my customer? have you ever bought anything from me?
stop speaking for them.

That was "your" in general sense of a customer, not specifically regarding people who buy items from KatanaBlade Anubis. And hey, everyone in this thread feels entitled to state their opinion on how people are expected to react to changes in question. So you're quite out of line here trying to play the host.

my apologies if you honestly ment that is a general sense

Quote:
yes they are buying entertainment. that is the point.

This makes me wonder, do you actually understand the point am trying to make? because it goes like this:

* merchants in SL are selling virtual entertainment items
* which means demand on these items is likely to be highly dependant on price
* but unlike in RL, price of item in SL can be perceived on _two_ separate levels:
a) value measured strictly in the in-game currency
b) or as converted to RL currency
* people who get their SL income through in-game means and with no ties to RL (not cashing their earnings out etc) are given to see prices using the a) approach
* people who either buy their SL cash with RL money or cash out their SL income, are likely to see it more in b) way
* thus increase of prices based on RL/SL currency exchange ratio is likely to have no effect on the latter group, but it does have effect on the former group
* and because items sold in SL are all luxury items, this sort of price change can have noticeable impact on the former group. Per usual economy mechanics.

that's all there is to it. It's just to point out no matter how loud people will screech "but it's still the same value in real dollars", some of people _will_ see these price changes as actual price increases, and react accordingly. The real question is i guess, how large part of regular customers that group makes. But that's something we're bound to find out.

it's all a want, some people chose to get entertainment on TV others online, and many jsut pick up a good book. but people still worked to make that entertainment.

Quote:
you obviously haved not worked as hard as many people here to fight for value.
it is clear to me your only interest is to devalue artisic skills, which btw is a REAL thing.

I like my discussions with arguments that are actually dealing with the subject at hand, instead of ad personam attacks especially when these are based purely on your guesswork, thankyouverymuch.

guess I am not the only one guessing.
I can not make you feel anything you don't want to feel that is impossible I am just a human. If you took that personal then that is because you wanted to.
if you think it was a personal attack by all means think that way. I can't make you think otherwise. But i can apologize, when you said ultimately your customer does not care, that felt like personal to me, and I was offended you could speak for everyone. but hey you didnt make me feel that way, I let myself feel that way. youaresoverywelcome