Griefer Neighbors

The neighbors that moved in next to my parcel are griefing me/stalking me. I filed an abuse reports over the last few days because they had protruded a scrolling sign onto my parcel saying:
“DO NOT Look Behind This Wall unless you like sex”.

Although their sign is on my parcel, I cannot delete it. This is the third day, and the sign is still there. I had filed other abuse reports on one of them threatening me.

They moved in 1/16 asking me to go into business with them. I did not want any part of it. I have a park in the sky that many players visit. The new neighbors saw my traffic, and wanted me to build a walkway onto their land. They were very rude, and I had no interest in dealing with them. They began using threatening language, and threatening me, trying to coerce me to do what they want. Coercion as in “If I do not build a walkway to their land, they will cause me grief.”

Then, they built their dark dungeon club in the sky right beside my park. I built my park high in the sky in order to get away from neighbor’s structures on the ground. They could have built their club on the ground or anywhere in the sky above their land parcel. They chose to build it right next to my park. In effect, the east view of my park was gone, and their dark dungeon was in its place.

I asked them to move their club because they are blocking the view of my park. Of all the places in the sky they could have put their club, they put it right next to my park. They responded with threatening language because I refused to put a walkway to their land.

My first intention was to move my park to another part of the sky. But that would be very difficult considering the size of my park. Not to mention the fact that other players helped place things on my park that I cannot move. Furthermore, they expressed that they follow me anyway. They are stalkers. I have been planning to move out of that sim because it crashes all the time, but have not been able to do so yet.

My only solution was to build a wall to block out their structure. This is what I would do anyway if I was on the ground no matter who was next to me. I’m in the sky so I don’t have to have a wall. Because of them, I have to put one up anyway.

My park now has no view on the east. I’m an advocate of zone free land so that people can do what they wish with their parcel. However, I do no advocate griefer behavior. Placing their dungeon wherever I put my park is clearly stalking abusive behavior. I’ mot sure if this is legal or not.

What is not legal is intentionally protruding a sign into my parcel solely for the purpose of griefing. When I built the wall, they protruded their sign right through it. Their sign is overlapping my property, and I cannot delete it because most of it is on their property. I don’t think anybody would be too happy if there was a scrolling sign overlapping into their land saying “DO NOT Look Behind This Wall unless you like sex”. I have been waiting for 3 days for tech support to come delete it, and resolve this problem. How long does it take?

Intimidation language is anytime somebody talks specifically to scare the other person. They talk in threats. I’ll give examples:

“if you build the wall my club goes higher..”
“cant you just make the wall a solid color its ridiculous. I will make my wall 150 meters high if this continues”
“an if you know about building i will set all my center poiunt to pertrude through yours”
“and i told him... And if our neighbor keeps complaining he said that maybe he should just suspend both of us for 30 days..”
“but your wall is considered harrasment..
“so, i guess we both will get suspended”
“ok, fine, i will set all my walls to center through yours, and i will build it as high as it can go..”


IMAGES
I attached 5 relevant images here.
2 of the surface showing both sides.
1 Close up of the sign.
2 of the sky level showing both sides.

THE FOLLOWING IS SOME CHAT HISTORY IN CASE ANYBODY WAS INTERESTED:

On 1/16 when a couple who I shall call M and F, moved into the parcel next to mine. Ever since then, they have been causing major grief and using threatening language. I would like any feedback. As my parcel borders the sim to the east, they are actually in the next sim. I built a park in the sky on my parcel, free for anybody to visit. I get a lot of traffic, and my park is usually listed in Popular Places top 20. I never had to give away money or use camping chairs to get people to come. I just let people know this park is here, and they are welcome. Usually when I move into a parcel, I put up a wall to block out neighboring structures. On this parcel instead, I moved my park up to the sky.

It all started the day my new neighbors moved in, and F approached me. She wanted me to build a walkway from my park in the sky onto her parcel. She planned to open a store on her parcel, and people would be able to walk from my park to her store. I respectfully declined. She threw a fit, and eventually built a tower dungeon club in the sky exactly next to the park. I asked her to move her structure because it is blocking the park’s view of the sky. It was not a difficult request, and she began claiming that she is helping me. Blocking our view is obviously not helping me.

The following is a copy of the second half of our chat (I didn’t get the first half):


*edited to remove chat logs*

As you can see, this has been a major problem. All I want is for things to go back the way they were. Things were nice and peaceful before these griefers moved in. From the moment they moved in, they have been causing nothing but problems.

At that point I'd file this in the Answers forum since thats basicly the HotLine now. If nothing is still done I'd contact a linden direct either by searching for one thats online or going to live help (prefered) and asking if there is a linden on duty that can help.

The biggest a single prim can go is 10mx10mx10m, and this is calculated from the centre point of the item, so even if they place it at 45 degrees the most it can protrude on to your property is 7.5 metres. If the centre point goes over the boundary, you can just return it to them.

Unfortunately some people don't give a monkey's about their neighbours, and just want to cause trouble because they can, and there's very little you can actually do about it.

Sure, they're griefing you... but what is their aim? Do they want to buy your land, or is it just the fact that you're successful and they aren't?

I guess its just a matter of time.... if they aren't getting the success they want, they'll either get bored and quit (which, by the sound of it, would not be a great shame), or find an easier nut to crack.

In the meantime, I guess all we can do is continue to report them, and hope that something eventually is done about it.

I'd personally grief them back, with a big sign on YOUR land only, saying "I'm popular and you're not", with Nelson from the Simpsons on it. At the end of the day, there isn't much they can do, and if they bomb or spam your land, that's reportable too.

I'm assuming that you are on Mature land, as that sort of thing in PG is a definite no-no.

Lewis

Jeez, it's hard to imagine someone being so stupid.

If it were a single prim, maybe. If its part of a linked object, so long as the root prim is on the object owner's land, you can not delete or move the bit that overhangs your land. There's plenty examples of this being used to do signs over linden-owned roads, bridges over linden water, etc.

I'd definately call this griefing and would be calling a Linden directly to my parcel daily to take a look at the griefing object, until it is removed or moved.

File abuse reports too, but also do a Find in People on 'linden' and pick an online Linden. Send an IM and ask that they come and take a look at the griefing that is ruining your SL experience.

-Ghoti

Pleasure -

My advice is to not retaliate, and ignore them as best as you can.

While you're doing that, file an abuse report for every infraction you feel is being done against you, individually, and in detail. They will be investigated by Linden - just not right away. If Linden feels that the TOS/CS has been compromised, they will take action - you just wont be informed about it.

Be patient, and allow the Abuse Reports to work their magic. It may take a little bit, but be persistant with them.

If it is an active griefing situation, such as someone continually shooting you, or harrassing your visitors, you can go into Live Help, and ask for Liason assistance. However, it appears that the type of grief you are receiving is more of the passive type... which is the perfect candidate for the "Abuse Report & Wait" strategy.

Good Luck!

It sounds like your wall is more than just a wall or it wouldn't be considered harrassment. Does it perhaps have a sign of it's own textured on it?

I know you didn't want any link to these people, but in order to get them off your back you could have offered put a tp down to a lower platform that would be adjacent to their club if they moved it down. The tp could have been very unobtrusive in your park.

Seems like it's out of hand now, though. Stay calm and try to ignore them while looking for a new plot to move to.

Travis, while I agree with you, I wonder if we are not crapping up our own system and bogging the Lindens down with all the abuse reports.

It would be neato if we could have the ability to have a unique Parent Abuse Report Number and then tag all future related reports as Child Abuse Reports (boy that sounds bad ) under the PARN so that the Lindens don't have to sift through all the clutter.

Really? Cause after 33 years of observing people, I can definitely imagine it quite easily.

Thanks!

I'm definitely waiting a long time for the abuse report to be taken care of.
I'll see what I can do about posting something in the answers forum.

I have no intention of putting an object onto their land.

Travis,
When I built the wall, I made it so the side facing them was pretty ugly. They are to the east of my parcel. Apparantly, the neighbors to the north were not too happy about it even though they are way down on the ground. The only reason the wall is there and textured that way is because of the griefers. It isn't a sign or anything. It's just an ugly texture. Is that a violation of TOS/CS?

Luciftias Neurocam: I only got 20 years experience

Pleasure - Its probably not a violation of the TOS/CS - but I personally think its a bad idea to retaliate in any situation. At the very least, it may affect the amount of sympathy you receive from Linden when analyzing your abuse report. If it is two parties annoying each other, I could see where they may write the whole thing off as personal drama they dont want to get involved in. In a worst case, you both could end up being sanctioned if it truly is abuse.

Gabe - I see your point. I guess I didn't mean to imply the 'flooding' of the AR system. I just thought some persistance might be in order if they're not yet producing results

I completely agree, I was just typing aloud and wondering if there was a way we could order all the related reports to make it easier for Lindens and maybe cut down on the response times a little.

EDIT: So, if you sorted the Parent reports by number of affiliated reports tagged to it, you could easily see who is having real problems or, at the very least, who is really, really concerned.

I would like to see LL change the ability of land owners to return any object overhanging the owner's land. As it is now an object can overhang by as much as 49.999% of the size of the object. If the object is made of many linked parts it can go into the owner's land many meters beyond the property line.

LL spends much time moving and removing these objects, but it can take quite a long time to get action.

I have buildings and trees overhanging some of my lots, and after several reports, nothing has been done. I understand LL's workforce isn't growing in proportion to the growth of land/residents.

That's why it's so important LL give land owners the power over their land, to clear any overhanging objects.

These people are a$$holes. Throwing a hissy fit because you wont put a walkway to their club from your more popular garden. I hope their club fails miserably.


GO CRY TO MOMMA YOU WUSSIES AND LEAVE PLEASURE ALONE.

I hate people like that.

This situation, as sad as it is, seems all too common in SL.

While it won't solve Pleasure's problem, it does suggest that folks planning a development in SL buy extra land and allow a set-back buffer zone around their developed land. You routinely see this in any large parcel involving real security. A fence at the perimeter, behind which is open country, possibly monitored electronically or visually, behind which is another fence or privacy screen. Nothing worth seeing or knowing happens in the buffer zone.

Try getting close to the White House or any U.S. military base or defense contractor and you'll know what I mean.

Visit any intact Medieval castle and you'll see this defense method is hundreds of years old. Get over the first wall, and you are now in open ground below a surrounding network of turrets and another wall beyond.

Too expensive to buy the extra land? Consider it prim farm or insurance against this sort of griefing. Or suck it up and wait for LL to work the process.

Sorry because someone took your sky view? Get over it. You don't own the view. Put up a screen with a mural of what you want to see, just like your classic Italian restaurant does so you can look at Vesuvius instead of Newark.

Sorry not to be more sympathetic, but this happens all the time, and the Lord helps those who help themselves while waiting for the Cavalry that might never come.

How? What changes would be required to enable checking the dimensions of the prim (or the linked set relative to the root prim) in addition to its position relative to the property border? Is there some other simpler detection method which can be automated and does not require a visual inspection?

I think it would be a simple If/Then sequence, although I'm no scripter. When an AV clicks on an object to sit on it, the location of that point of click it calculated. If that location is over the land owners property, the land owner will have to power to return it.

I totally agree. I think if even the slightest portion of an object overalps into a parcel, the owner of the parcel should have the ability to return it to the neighbor's inventory. I have owned land before, and unlike this situation, objects have overlapped into my parcel from a neighboring parcel unintentianally. It takes a good while for them to come deal with it when we really should be able to return it.

I just left Pleasure's garden and it looked great, until I saw the huge monstrosity at the edge of the land. They just shoved that eye sore called a "club" right up as close as they could to his garden. The wall he erected didn't look bad, the club looks worse.

Also, the garden had around 5 people in it and no one was next door.


It's sad when people grief and act childish.

I don't suppose that they thought for one moment that the type of crowd who would go to their club just because it has sex poseballs in it are not necessarily the type of crowd who would appreciate the creativity of a beautiful garden ?

My guess - without looking as I am at work - is that the garden and the club look very, very different and have different levels of skill involved in the building too.

I'll pop by and have a look in a couple of hours once I get home, as it's always good to see other people's creative builds - and reassure myself that my skills aren't that bad when I look at some others

Lewis

They put up a screen. The abuse report concerned the sign rooted on the neighbors property and pushed through the screen to show up on their property. That is a reportable offense to which Pleasure has not received any response. Additionally, the neighbor has indicated that a Linden was on the premises, failed to take action, and threatened to suspend both parties for 30 days.

The questions arising from this situation are:
-What is a reasonable response time from LL for a reportable action?

-Does LL communicate results of its response to the filer? (Note: the neighbor may have replaced the sign after it was removed by a Linden, making up the threat to suspend them for 30 days to deter further reports with LL. This is a strong possibility, imo, since I've heard of 3-7 rather than 30 day suspensions.)

-Does LL communicate its decision to not act on a report? I'm pretty sure it doesn't under the guise of protecting the privacy of the griefer, btw.

-Is it better to call live help?

-Will you get different responses to the situation depending on the method used to report and which Linden the luck of the draw sends you to deal with the matter?

After considering your response further, I think your recommendations work out best for LL. Option 1: shut up and put up. Ignoring the griefer and not filing a report is certainly easier for LL. The 2nd option - buy more land!!! - is certainly a great boost to LL. Yea, that's the ticket, pay more tier fees if they fail to respond to violations of the TOS.

Now, now, you'd be one to talk about annoying neighbors, pleasure... damn, so there are two sex clubs in the sim? oy...

Here are some screenshots of the area so you guys can see what's going on.

Obviously the sign crossing over should be removed. However I feel that the eyesore of a wall that Semple put up next to his neighbor's business on the ground (semple has nothing built on the ground) is just as bad.

Also in snapshot 4 you can see that the bush signs that obviously were targeting semple's property are all covered up. Whatever linden goes to remove the offending sign from semple's property, should also remove the boxes around the bush signs. Not because I agree with the bush signs, but because everyone has to live by the same rules.

Also as far as people saying that the area the other people built by Semple's place is an eyesore, that's just wrong, compare semple's build in snapshot 5, to what you can see of the other build in snapshot 6.

Also your neighbor has the right to build anywhere on their land. They are a pose ball store, so obviously they want to be seen from your club. There is nothing you can do about that other then buying that land.

So anyway, in my opinion, obviously the sign crossing onto your land has to go, but your "ugly texture" walls are worse.

Also if you want someone to deal with your abuse report, mabey it's time to stop posting a 3 hr event every single hour of every day. That's pure abuse of the event system. Which once again, i feel is a much worse abuse, then his sign going onto your land. (Snapshot 7 and I'd like to point to this post, complaining about your abuse of the Event system, resulting in people trying to attend one of your sim neighbor's actual event getting locked out of the sim, and you refusing to compromise)