Zoning. Yes or No ?

Zoning, sorry Im against it and here is why

Zoning = Governmental control

Governmental control leads to Player Run Government

Player Run Government leads to SL Hell

So only Zone When SL Hell Freezes over...

Period

Shadow

I am not in the mood for a pissing contest with you today.. you toad. Mine IS bigger than yours.. and I can prove it.

I pointed out that you had an error in argumentation, logic and definition - that simple. It wasn't personal.

I did so in a relatively nice way. You can't take that? I can return to being a real pain in your behind here in the forums very easily.... by trolling everyone of your posts and tearing them apart if you prefer.

The rest of your subsequent post is not worth my time responding to.

Again, we differ on this. And let that be it.

With all due respect, I do not see a point in discussing this particular point further in this thread; I have read often enough on these forums that it will lead to nothing

Yes, I'm in favor of "zoning" of some sort, whether by the Lindens or through private sim owners if it were practical. I'm also in favor of some sort of mechanism for controlling distribution of sim computing resources. It's reasonable in SL, like in RL, to want to know what you're buying.

This is one of those issues (like PG/Mature, government, etc.) that make you wish people could just license the SL server or rent their own grid from LL. Eventually, one way or the other, I guess.

Generously snipped to respond to just the above.

Here's the problem as I see it.

What is currently to stop a first lander or someone else from getting a 512m2 plot and turning it into a "vertical club"? Nothing as far as I can tell.

If people can dance on multiple floors, see and talk with each other with minimal camera and "distance quieting" deleterious effects, then this should actually be the killer to any zoning or non-zoning argument.... Think about it.. a theoretically unlimited number of avatars could crowd this small plot in a vertical manner, dancing on a minimal build comprising the entire allotment of 117 prims....

The effect? The same as any other club... rendering the sim unusable for other residents.

It's not plot size that determines resources from a visiting resident's perspective. For visitors, the resources are the resources regardless of who "has them allocated"/purchesed via land ownership.

Technically, clubs could be made this way and without enforcing "zones" against clubs, there's nothing that could be done.

However, the converse of the problem is the same - the same plot and a slight variation in operation by the land owner. Instead of calling it a club, he/she merely continually invites "friends" to dwell on his/her land dancing to the tunes he has streaming in and playing "friendly host" by reversing the normal "housewarming gift giving" process - by gifting $L to each of the visiting guests. In effect, a club. In name.. a personal home.

So, it's neither land nor name that is the problem here...

Zoning will not help in any instance other than that which is enforceable - and that can currently only be done by the Lindens. Only they have the power to restrict usage of land and resources on a resident by resident basis.

The rest of this discussion is moot.

Why not just ban clubs and casinos all together? Especially ones in PG sims! And definitely ones in PG sims owned by blue aliens.

Heh.

-AP

it is true that ll guarantees us nothing. it's a standard arrangement between a company and it's beta testers. yeah go ahead & flame me. it won't change the fact that we're still testing this software's development cycle. hey, or argue that "software is always in development" and "this is as close to production as it'll ever get." i need a good laugh this morning.

it is true that luna is rather dismal these days but i believe ll consider that a good thing. they showed the player base an example of how to construct a mall sim and the idea took off like a shot. the differences are that mall rent is paid in lindens rather than tier, and the lindens don't advertise luna. but that's all cool. it was only ever supposed to be a model just like lindenworld, darkwood, deharo, boardman and new albion.

what zoning? oh the subject, yes, well, in all sincerity, not being the least bit sarcastic, as seriously as i can state it /end disclaimer, i really believe that the only successful zoning is accomplished by the land owners themselves. cycles per sm seem a good solution but i believe the overhead would cause more lag than a poker game. it sounds clicheic, but you, or your group, gotta own the land to enforce a lag free code in the sim. the lindens won't, and in all fairness can't be expected to, enforce such restrictions.

I say YES to Zoning

The thing is..who in their right mind is gonna pay a monthly fee to be part of a player ran government anyway? I know I do not want to pay to work lol. I may dance for money..but I consider dancing and entertainment fun..not being a Mayor or Governor.

The only real hope in my opinion to have an effective Government will stim from the staff of Linden Labs or a division of that. Though they do have volunteers. But when you hold office in a government..you don't get to log in or out when you want. You have to be at work on time..and there are schedules to abide by just like any other (JOB).

I'm not sure how we can differ on this... I'm trying to tell you what the agreement between Linden Labs and yourself is, since you appear to be under the misapprehension that you're paying for something more than you are. You pay for the right to own land on the grid. Nothing more. That's a fact; not my opinion.

But I respect your wish not to discuss it further.

*meekly raises hand*

hehe.. Granted it is only part of my SL experience, but I am enjoying it greatly thus far. One person's fun is another person's work. I say always give more options, take nothing away.

Well..if that's what you enjoy fine..but; a government is part of a ruling entity compared to a dancer and is a bit more important if they are gonna regulate policies and operate divisions responsibly.

Pen, hun as I stated in another thread I love ya to death but after what your "Leader" said and equated to how your organization views things I am greatly abhored and stunned that you a person of creativity and beauty would be associated with such a tyranny.

Stop drinking the Pink Koolaid hun you dont know what its laced with.


Shadow

I suggest you go read my reply to you in the other thread Shadow.

I am for zoning... too often do I see lovely areas of homes get destroyed by a single, laggy, ugly cube club.

Put commercial stuff around telehubs, and have the more remote areas designated solely for residences (no selling, half the dwell).

LF

how about no selling, half the dwell, no scripts, party limit of one av/250sm, and double prims? that's the ticket.

I'm all for zoning.

I don't think I need to say anything else, Korg. You make yourself look bad enough.

Wrong use of the word. Zoning by your definition is not zoning by what it is meant here. Since there is no government over SL other than the Lindens, and since the Lindens already have full control, the point is moot. But by your next statement, this is not what you're saying. You're saying player government control. But if there is no player government, then there is no player government control.


Cause before effect?


Assumed: "Overall SL" as a prefix to this sentence.
Agreed, but already this statement is based on an assumption that was debunked in the last statement.


Slippery slope, and by your response I'm not sure you're taking the thread seriously.

Fear of bad things is good. It helps make sure the things we do are not bad.

I am all for zoning, but as someone who learned a very expensive lesson living in Brown (zoned residential), if LL can't provide the policing, it is all for naught. Lee Linden tried, somewhat, to help, but only when called out by another resident. In several months there, I only saw one independent foray by a linden, and that one only enforced the rules haphazardly, deleting marginal items, while keeping up major violations.

In a nutshell, outside of a private island, I cannot see this working.

Well, the SL grid has become too large for Lindens to be reasonably expected to patrol and enforce community charters. That said, I think partnerships between communities and Linden can work well, and I'd point you to the Lusk Estates and the Lusk Estates Land Trust for an example of this. Something like this would not work everywhere, nor should it. The important thing is to provide environments where folks who want protection from the Tragedy of the Commons can live. I think the Lusk Estates charter could be a good 'constitution' for other similar communities.

Cat, what is being discussed here is certain Sims being zoned from day 1. There would be no sudden change of zoning in any Sim.

I think Kris nailed this one right on the head. Zoning just won't work, if it's designed to stop lag. If you make a sim residential only, then someone throws a big housewarming party, do new rules get made to limit residential guests allowed? Many folks combine home with shop, and zones that are purely commecial would be even more laggy than at present.

As much as I love seeing a lovely residential area, (and I've been lucky to have my home in one that has remained mostly residential), I just can't see this working very well. The sim in which my club resides (not a dance club) is mostly residential and I try to keep the other residence in mind and not have too many large events, because I know what a pain it is when you can barely walk, let alone build.

I had assumed the zoning would be "done" by Linden Lab as the new Sims were rolled out.

The question of whether zoning is done by "us" or by LL is entirely different from the question of whether zoning is a good idea.