Zoning. Yes or No ?

Yes. I am for zoning. I support efforts to promote zoning in sims that have not yet been settled. Current sims that have land owners would not be effected.

Residential, commercial, and mixed use. As long as everyone knows what sort of zoning applies to the sim, how can it be a problem? The type of zone can be listed at the top, along with the sim name and rating (PG, M).

With zoning, resource restrictions would need to be implemented in the "about land" section, much as prim use is limited to plot size. Resources like running scripts, light objects, etc, will have a higher ratio in commercial sims. This would be automatically enforced via land options, no need for a Linden or community watch group to monitor builds.

Many will argue that zoning will limit creativity. But I think it will focus it.

Please chime in if your for or against zoning in the future. Feel free to explain why or why not.

Surely the desolated Luna stands as a monumental testament to the argument against zoning?

Yes and No

Yes on a private island the owner can do what ever they want.

No for the mainland sims, I do not want to be told what I can build and where for that that I pay a monthly fee for.

Yes, I understand that. But on the other hand, the land owners in a sim which regularly grinds to a halt because of events being held (by clubs, etc) pay a monthly fee as well. Their fee is worth as much as those paid by clubs etc, while the amount of resources used by the clubs is disproportionate compared to what they pay.

So, yes, I would say I'm in favour of zoning. After all, not everyone can afford a private sim.

since i moved to the sim, i've watched the fps go from 700 to 800 to as low as 20 to 30 fps. this appears to be due to one place and when they hold an event everything in our sim grinds to a halt. we can barely walk, much less build. is this fair to the homeowners who were there first? i dont think so.

kris could you tell me more about luna.. im fairly new and have never heard of it

Remember, I am only supporting zoning for future mainland sims. The current mainland is fairly large and the current helter skelter system would always apply to them. Also keep in mind that we are free to move to other areas and it may be necessary as our own goals change.

Vote is 3-2 now. What do you think of the idea of limiting resource use per plot? This is not my idea, Lindens have mentioned it themselves in the past.

Again yes. I think it is not more then fair that the amount of resources one can use is proportionate to the amount of land one owns in a sim. Comparable to the current prim allocation.

I am all for voluntary zoning - that is, if all of the land in a particular sim is owned by a specific person or group of people and they want to agree to a certain set of "zoning" laws while they reside there... more power to them.... just so long as it stays within that sim and is not binding upon anyone who purchases land from them.

I am all for Linden-enforced and designated zoned sims... so long as the zoning enforcement is consistent.

I am all for private sim zoning enforced by the sim owner. I haven't been to but two or three island sims in a while so it doesn't affect me... you go for it out there in the hinterlands....

I am against zoning if it is mandatory. I am against zoning that does not grandfather existing builds into the current location of the "zone". I am against zoning where any individual - or all as a group - "proposed" zoning restrictions cannot be ignored by someone alrady living in an area where zoning is going to take place/begin.

Ok. I'm slightly confused by some of the answers here.

As far as I can tell, Loki is simply talking about commercial versus residential. The responses seem to focus on events... which could be in either. Zoning aint gonna help you one drop there.

I'm pretty sure that when Loki talks about management of resources he isn't suggesting that there should be a limitation on the number of people that can visit a given plot in a sim to attend an event.

And I really don't think that people can complain if other residents hold events. If you're pissed off that a sim can become virtually useless when there are 10 people in it, complain to LL, not to the people who want to hold the events and work at providing entertainment for fellow residents.

Btw, I say all of this as someone who has never held an event and doesnt attend them. But I do appreciate that many enjoy them and wouldnt try and stop them because of lag. And yes, I hate clubs too.

It does make me laugh tho... given that Uncle Phil reckons we're gonna have 2 million residents... where the HELL are they all gonna go? Gonna have 200,000 sims for them to play in, are we, since a dozen people in a sim can kill it off? SL will never realise its potential til this issue is rectified.

if i knew a sim was zoned for clubs or event heavy activities i wouldnt build my home there. i dont think anyone would. that might lead to a couple of clubs on a sim and not much else. but, if resources could be allocated somehow so my small lot could function, i would build anywhere.

I endorse the Town Hall discussion of this product and/or service.

So, you're for zoning and against player governments?

(sigh)

Ok. So what about someone in a residential zone having 32 people over for a get together? Or hosting bingo at home? How is that different to a club?

How is it any fairer to relegate clubs to a commercial zone? Should the shop owners there have to put up with the fact that no one can get to their shops because the sim is lagged up with a club?

Personally, I think the mere fact that there ARE a mix of residential and commercial properties evening out the resources is one of the main things that stops the Grid from feeling like you're walking through glue all over.

Zoning, per se, is a mark of a (player )government... and, as such, a restriction of and interference with my right to minimal intrusion into my experience as a player by other players... Zoning is probably in the top three types of interference I can think of as being a de facto interference.

I am beginning to wonder if I am not somehow partially at fault here, folks.

I think in my eagerness to discuss the subject, I have associated overly negative connotations with the word government, when really people aren't against it - they're just against people like me discussing it to death.

I think this confusion might be caused by us using different definitions.
For me, commercial zones would be zones in which landowners would hold events on a regular basis (like clubs) or in which they deploy activities which draw large numbers of people over a certain period (like busy malls).

Residential for me are the zones where ppl just want to have their homes, build, have an occasional party, etc.

I agree events could be in either, but to me it is the frequency with which events are held which counts.

I have moved several times to escape a lagged server, but right now the "residential" sims are the prime targets for resource hoggers like club owners, because they are the quiet sims and have spare resource capacity for them to abuse. So right now it is imposible to escape the clubs and other big time event holders.



I don't think he is. But like dwell can be measured, it can be used to determine which part of someones resource quotum is used for that period of time. If used up, no more events.



Complaints are issued to LL, but in the meantime till something has been done, life must remain bearable for all parties.

I think events are an important ingredient of SL, but other ppl's interests should not be overlooked either. They pay their share of fees, too, and are therefore entitled that their wishes and demands are looked after as wel, and that they can enjoy their stay.

Voluntary zoning (for certain sims), as proposed by Loki, would come a long way in assuring both the interests of event holders as well of home owners would be served. As well as a system of resource quota.

Could anyone imagine a sim full of casinos? Lin Vegas, where the lag is so bad, dont even bother to teleport. I dont think a server could handle it very well. Don't say it couldn't happen in SL.

What if at some point your activities will result in intrusion and/or interference into other players experience of SL? They, like you, might see it as their right, too, to have minimal intrusion.

Sorry Kris. The difference is that a club tries to load the sim and use its resources on a regular basis without respect to any other sim resident's requirements. A club exists for profit - not to pprovide an experience (that happens to be a by product).

If a person has 32 people over on a regular basis, then that is one thing. However, this is not the usual case for most people..... think aobut it. Even during the holidays, with lots of parties in the real world, few restrictions on your personal ability o have a party are levied by society as a whole - tho you might have parking or noise compliance issues. In the first case, it's a resource issue (space, traffice, access to one's own home which is not that of the party, etc.); in the second, it's a good neighbor one. And few people really bithc, understanding it is a sometimes thing.

OTOH, a club INTENDS to do its thing without worrying about the effect on others. Thus, a zone for just clubs would "force" competing clubs to reach some sort of compromise with other clubs in the sim so that all could gain and use their relative shares of the limited resources in order to all reach their individual goals - which are the same, profit. The goals of individuals in a sim is not that of clubs, but is common to that of other residents - fun, however each resident defines that. Profit is not a consideration as far as homesteads are concerned...

Of course that could happen in SL, I won't deny that. The point I try to make is that it can't be fair that someone who owns lets say 20% of a sim uses up 80% of its resources. Zoning might not be the complete answer for that, but could come some way. Again, we are talking about certain sims being "zoned", not all of them. Resource quota would be even better, and might even make zoning redundant.

Just because it can't handle the load now doesn't mean it won't.

Zoning will become an imperitive as time progresses.

We already do it in a few ways, but we don't call it zoning:
- What kind of ground covering and Linden Trees
- Terraformable or not
- How close to a telehub
- Natural zoning (private sims, friends getting together, large malls, etc)
- Linden owned land - waterways, highways, parks

And, some quasi-failed zoning attempts like Boardman and De Haro. -- what makes them failed though is just how uniform they try to make things, rather than keeping zoning to simple things like commercial vs residential.

I see absolutely nothing intrusive about saying, "Okay, we are selling brand new land, residential only." If someone wants to buy, then they can choose to buy and abide by the zoning regulations. I would think that homeowners would flock to residential zoning.

Imagine a few simple zoning types:
- residential / commercial / educational / park / public
- light / medium / heavy (how much land is split up)

As SL grows zoning will help keep things organized, livable, and searchable.

Then they can come talk to me and explain their situation - and so long as I am within the TOS, I can choose to comply or ignore their requests/situation.

But actions are not de facto intrustion. Pre-existing zoning restrictions ARE, by definition, interference with one's experience. They, by definition, restrict what can and cannot be done.

Perhaps the club can afford a private sim? What if your land suddenly became commercial zoned and you had a lot more than 1 club to deal with?

Cat

So that's your new spin on it? The people that voice their distaste of government in SL actually aren't against the idea at all. They're just against you talking about it.

You really are great at taking what people say and just making anything out of it you want, arent you?

For clarification: I am against any kind of player run government in SL. Ever. Linden dictatorship or nothing, thanks. And you will not be a factor in my decision in any way, shape or form. Especially since I really am putting you on mute now

And back to the topic - which I personally DONT see as having anything much to do with government - I am against zoning. For the reasons I've already stated. I just don't think it's going to make a blind bit of difference, other than to discriminate against people who want to live their second lives one way for the benefit of people who want to live theirs another way.