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The Most Retarded Statement I've Heard in Quite Some Time. |
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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06-12-2005 21:37
The guy said he was out hunting "Allies", ie Allied soldiers, not civilians. Anyone know what percent of the SS commited attrocities and what percent of them were just regular soldiers? Im not going to tell you if you dont know. Im also not doing to debate the SS insignia because I understand the sentiment.
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Tyrant Ludd
Abnormal Normality
Join date: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 23
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06-13-2005 03:56
"Im not going to tell you if you dont know."
Im sorry, i know your probly trying to be serious(i hope) but that comment made me laugh. That comment alone completly screwed your chances of making any type of valid point and made your post pointless. |
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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06-13-2005 06:46
"Im not going to tell you if you dont know." Im sorry, i know your probly trying to be serious(i hope) but that comment made me laugh. That comment alone completly screwed your chances of making any type of valid point and made your post pointless. Im glad you laughed, I said it that way on purpose. And no my post isnt pointless. Why? Because there are some people reading my post that assume 100% of the SS did bad things. Now they read something that could make them stop and think and possibly do some research. And by the time they got to my "if you dont know" comment, they ALREADY read the question about "what % of the SS", so its in their mind, which was my goal: Get them to think and not rely on hollywood for their history lesson.  |
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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06-13-2005 07:04
As long as he wasn't actively griefing, I'm not sure what the problem was...
If I dress up and roleplay an ancient greek scholar, it sure as hell doesn't mean I'm gonna know everything about him or ancient Greece. SL's all about freedom of expression and creation, and a German soldier uniform, or SS uniform, shouldn't be anymore denied than a robot av, furry av, child av, monster av...etc..etc.. It's the behavior of the person that is the key. And while I've had a few run ins with griefing WWII'ers in german soldier uniforms, that doesn't seem to be the case here. _____________________
David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery |
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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06-13-2005 07:08
"Im not going to tell you if you dont know." Im sorry, i know your probly trying to be serious(i hope) but that comment made me laugh. That comment alone completly screwed your chances of making any type of valid point and made your post pointless. Tyrant, some knives have 2 edges. If you're going to deride someone else's point, make sure you correctly spell "heil" , rather than "hail". Sniping does tend to splatter, y'know  _____________________
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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06-13-2005 08:39
well I'm sure not all the nazi's were that bad
 . rather hard to believe they were all evil to the core. but the ss was definately the worst of the worse so he didnt' really have a leg to stand on there._____________________
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Fire Fox
Registered User
Join date: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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06-13-2005 09:04
Me! I'm only here cause the grid is down; I have ne beef with anyone; but just want to say, thanks - for keeping me minorly entertained for the 10 minutes it took to read all the threads.
Wow, you guys sure put some effort into working up a storm in a tea-cup. |
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nancy Muromachi
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2005
Posts: 17
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reply to Artemis Fate
06-13-2005 10:49
I'm hoping that someday the swastika will be free of it's negative conotations in the west (as of right now, it's only Most of America and Europe that still consider it a nazi symbol, everyone else thinks of it by it's true meaning).[/QUOTE]
Artemis Fate first let me tell you that I think you are very intelligent person and I found your reply thoughtful. Your statement that "ONLY Most of America and Europe" still consider it a nazi symbol, is without merit. If you had said," I think or I believe" I would not be in disagreement with you. You have a right to think or believe what ever you want. Did you forget the State of Israel, (middle east) or the millions of christians in South America, Africa, Phillippines,china,japan etc. (did you get your information from the Discovery Channel....just kidding..lol) My second point of discussion is: symbols and language are always changing meaning. What a symbol meant a 100 years ago is not what it means today. That is why the dictionary is adding and deleting words. It is unfortunate that someone used the symbol to represent the Nazi party but they did. The symbol's meaning changed. The cross didnt mean Christianity until Jesus died, now millions of people see the cross as a symbol of christianity. "I BELIEVE" that the swastika in my life time will mean the NAZI PARTY. |
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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06-13-2005 11:45
and nazi just meant national before hitler
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Little Hailey
Unedited
Join date: 1 Jun 2005
Posts: 209
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06-13-2005 11:46
Here's a thought....
A countless number of people dress up in Star Wars costumes. The Imperials vs The Rebels. The Imperials are the 'bad guys' and The Rebels the 'good guys', as suggest in the movies. While Star Wars is a fiction and WWII is not, I do feel that there is a glaring similarity here. My point is that because someone (a newb?) found a german uniform and chose to wear is does not mean he's wearing a sign over his head reading anything like "White Power" or "Nazi Rule!", etc... Would you give the same treatment to someone wearing the costume of a Star Wars Imperial Officer? If not, then you should. Why? Well, because if you did otherwise you would be going against the principles in which you beleive make you right in treating this person in the manner you have. While a Star Wars Imperial costume is based on fiction, it still represents ideas/beliefs .... Same as the Nazi had ideas/beliefs behind their actions. So you can either stand by your thoughts in that anyone who dons a costume believes in what that costume means based on what -you- think it means, or maybe consider the fact that it just "looked cool" to him at the time. I really think what bothers me most is that you came to the forums to make suck slanderous statements against someone who is completely deffensless. A kind gesture on your part might have been along the lines of, "I'm going to post about this encounter on the forums, if you'd like a chance to stand up for yourself, please visit them." Instead you came here to the forums to fluff yourself up a bit, looking down upon others from the safety of the pedistal you've drug out here. Watching you constantly change your standing on this has made me ill enough, but I wanted very much to point out the cowardis in your post to begin with. I could be very crude and compare that cowardis to a similar topic within this very thread, but I will let your mind dwell on that all by itself. _____________________
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____________________________ _______________________________ ___________________________________ _______________________________________ ___________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Interesting things happen when stars fall from the sky... Vote Yes on 411 - Transfer of No Trans Items (under specific conditions) |
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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06-13-2005 12:28
A countless number of people dress up in Star Wars costumes. The Imperials vs The Rebels. The Imperials are the 'bad guys' and The Rebels the 'good guys', as suggest in the movies. While Star Wars is a fiction and WWII is not, I do feel that there is a glaring similarity here. Except that your analogy screeches to a halt at the doors to Auschwitz -- which really did happen. The survivors of 6+ million dead are still around. Nobody over the age of 10 has been traumatized by Star Wars, that I know of. My point is that because someone (a newb?) found a german uniform and chose to wear is does not mean he's wearing a sign over his head reading anything like "White Power" or "Nazi Rule!", etc... Her original post very clearly said: "complete with SS insignia on the lapel". In that war, there were the Wehrmacht (led by the Prussian military aristocracy which had traditionally held itself apart from politics), the Nazi Party (to which most of the Wehrmacht did not actually belong) and the quasi-military political enforcement arm of the Nazi party, the "SS". It was the SS which controlled the Gestapo. It was the SS which manned the gas chambers and conducted mass terror raids on captured territory. To be in the SS, you not only had to qualify with Aryan bloodline. You also had to become indoctrinated with the Nazi philosophy of racial arrogance and hatred. You must also have belonged to the Nazi party. No exceptions. So tell me, please -- what exactly is excusable about wearing an SS emblem on a uniform? Why make excuses for someone's choice of clothing when there is an equal chance that they did, in fact, know what the "SS" emblem meant? Why does that kind of deplorable historical example deserve any tolerance at all? The individual in question is probably lucky Chosen Few isn't a reactionary who would have called the Jewish Defense League and turned him in. Would you give the same treatment to someone wearing the costume of a Star Wars Imperial Officer? If not, then you should. No moral equivalence at all. Star Wars was a movie series, not reality. Auschwitz and Treblinka and Dachau and Sobibor actually happened. I hope you can comprehend the vast and terrible difference. _____________________
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Teddy Kennedy
AKA PopeCrunch
Join date: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
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06-13-2005 13:18
So tell me, please -- what exactly is excusable about wearing an SS emblem on a uniform? Nazis pop up in a lot of video games, who's to say he wasn't on his way back from some PvP thing with a WW2 theme and didn't bother to change his avatar? For that matter, nazi imagery pops up from time to time in BDSM and D/s scenes, too. Point is, this guy didn't do anything but show up in a uniform, and didn't even interact with anyone until the OP prodded him. If there's a jackass in this situation, it's the OP. Why does that kind of deplorable historical example deserve any tolerance at all? Come now, Cindy. You're smarter than this. Those who do not remember history etc etc. And tolerance isn't really something you should be only metering out sparingly. Once you start saying 'this shouldn't be tolerated' or 'that shouldn't be tolerated' it's very, very easy for that list of exceptions to get very, very long. Not to straw-man here, but let's say LL bans all Nazi imagery because some folks don't like it. OK, a lot of folks don't like Middle Eastern imagery because of the current dramapocalypse in Iraq. Is that the next step? OK, now that we have that out of the way, there's a lot of people furious with the Japanese as a people due to WWII, rape of Nanking, etc etc. Do we ban all Japanese imagery? That'd go over well. This thread has a lot of shortsightedness and very little long thought in it. |
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Loksr Mysterio
Registered User
Join date: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 23
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06-13-2005 13:25
For that matter, nazi imagery pops up from time to time in BDSM and D/s scenes, too. like in the documentary "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS" |
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Teddy Kennedy
AKA PopeCrunch
Join date: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
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06-13-2005 13:29
like in the documentary "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS" Ilsa was /quite/ a piece of work. Currently, I don't know of Anyone else I'd apply the title Monster to. It's just so... Exact. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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06-13-2005 13:51
"Once you start saying 'this shouldn't be tolerated' or 'that shouldn't be tolerated' it's very, very easy for that list of exceptions to get very, very long."
Yes - like once you say, "Let's jail someone for murder," before you are knowing it, we're jailing people for crossing the street after the light's turned green. Nazi imagery should not be tolerated in this game. coco |
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Teddy Kennedy
AKA PopeCrunch
Join date: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
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06-13-2005 13:58
"Once you start saying 'this shouldn't be tolerated' or 'that shouldn't be tolerated' it's very, very easy for that list of exceptions to get very, very long." Yes - like once you say, "Let's jail someone for murder," before you are knowing it, we're jailing people for crossing the street after the light's turned green. Nazi imagery should not be tolerated in this game. coco That's not really a valid comparison since legal punishments are (supposed to be) relatively equal to the significance of the crime in question with regards to society as a whole / property destruction / etc. Why don't you think it should be tolerated? Please, PLEASE elaborate beyond 'they were evil ok' |
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daz Groshomme
Artist *nuff said*
Join date: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 711
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06-13-2005 14:40
hmmmmmm dressing as a nazi doesn't mean you support them anymore than IceT is encouraging people to shoot cops in his kick-ass song "Cop Killer", it's fiction, drama, like TV.
People get such a reaction dressing like a nazi or satan or whomever distastefull to the majority that they will continue to do so, you're making it fun for them. Jim Morrision idolised the villans.... _____________________
daz is the SL pet of Sukkubus Phaeton
daz is the RL friend of Sukkubus Phaeton Sukkubus Phaeton, RL, is the official super-model for the artist SLy and RLy known as daz! daz is missing the SL action because he needs a G5 badly |
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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06-13-2005 14:46
Nazis pop up in a lot of video games, who's to say he wasn't on his way back from some PvP thing with a WW2 theme and didn't bother to change his avatar? For that matter, nazi imagery pops up from time to time in BDSM and D/s scenes, too. Point is, this guy didn't do anything but show up in a uniform, and didn't even interact with anyone until the OP prodded him. If there's a jackass in this situation, it's the OP. Maybe you forgot her point in the original post -- it wasn't so much how he was dressed as it was his obvious and total ignorance of the very thing he was symbolically representing. Watching a Discovery Channel episode doesn't make you an expert, or I'd have a Nobel Prize by now. Come now, Cindy. You're smarter than this. Those who do not remember history etc etc. And tolerance isn't really something you should be only metering out sparingly. Once you start saying 'this shouldn't be tolerated' or 'that shouldn't be tolerated' it's very, very easy for that list of exceptions to get very, very long. No. There is a very firm, humane line that I think should be drawn this side of sanctioning genocide as policy. This isn't some mythical "slippery slope" the relative moralists like to pull out of their hats. Genocide is inexcusable and unforgiveable. Not to straw-man here, but let's say LL bans all Nazi imagery because some folks don't like it. Just for the record, I wasn't championing that at all. I do, however, have the right to object to such imagery just as much as this dullard had to wear the uniform. This thread has a lot of shortsightedness and very little long thought in it. That shortsightedness doesn't seem to be the sole province of one side. _____________________
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Kanker Greenacre
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 178
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06-13-2005 14:53
I wonder what anyone's reaction would be to the following avatars:
- Adolf Hitler - Joseph Stalin - KKK Grand Wizard - Confederate soldier - Osama Bin Ladin - Charles Manson - George Custer - Robert Oppenheimer _____________________
Living La Vida Segunda
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Caliandris Pendragon
Waiting in the light
Join date: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 643
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Ok so now you've offended me
06-13-2005 14:55
For all those who seem to be under the impression that this thread is about my having been offended by a uniform, it's not, so kindly stop responding as if it were. I realize it's easy to make assumptions like that whenever the word "Nazi" comes up, but please take a step back and realize that's exactly what they are, assumptions. For the record, if I had in fact been offended by this person, I would have said so in my post. Notice no such declaration is there. What this thread is about is the fact that someone made some rediculous statements, and that he was doltish enough to wonder why "everyone is so intolerant today" when he's wearing a symbol of intolerance. I found his apparent lack of historical knowledge, lack of social awareness, lack of forethought, and incapacity for reflection to be amusing so I shared the story. That's it. There was no fight, no exchange of hostilities, no offense. Please stop implying otherwise. This thread also is not about whether every German alive in the 1940's was a Nazi, or why individuals may or may not have joined the army, and it's certainly not about whehter or not I should have wished the guy in the uniform luck. All it is is a semi-amusing story about an individual that I personally found to be lacking a few marbles. If you want to agree or disagree with me on that subject, please, you're more than welcome. For everyone else, I have a few suggestions, since I know none of you are thread hijackers, right? 1. If you want to discuss German history, or your notion of the prevelence of the Stockholm Syndrome within concentration camps, then I'd suggest starting a new thread in the Off Topic Forum. It is an interesting subject for sure, but it's completely unrelated to anything here. Oh, and Torley, thanks for the kind plug. Yes, Lianne, I have several Borg avatars. The only one for sale right now is a drone. Locutus and the Queen will be available soon as well (along with every other Trek character from TOS throught Voyager). Swing by the Sci Fi Museum in Indigo some time if you're interested.2. If you want to discuss what you think is the proper method to deal with attention seekers to whom you don't want to give your attention, then either start a new thread, or respond to any one of the hundreds that already exist. Again, that's a worthy topic, but not related to this thread. 3. If you want to invite people to discuss whether or not Nazi peraphenalia in SL is offensive to them, again there are numerous threads already in place on the subject or you can start your own. My comments to the individual in question here were regarding whether or not he was aware that the uniform would offend SOME people, not about whether or not I was offended. And I'm sorry that my referring to a statement as retarded has offended you. That was not my intent. I found the experience amusing, and thought some others might as well. My apologies if the title description was more colorful than you might have preferred. Hate, hate, HATE being lectured. Can't see why I should take being told what I may or may not discuss within this thread or any other. Use of the description retard or retarded is regarded as being quite as offensive as anything else described or referred to in your post. Cali |
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Teddy Kennedy
AKA PopeCrunch
Join date: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
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06-13-2005 14:56
No. There is a very firm, humane line that I think should be drawn this side of sanctioning genocide as policy. This isn't some mythical "slippery slope" the relative moralists like to pull out of their hats. Genocide is inexcusable and unforgiveable. Just for the record, I wasn't championing that at all. I do, however, have the right to object to such imagery just as much as this dullard had to wear the uniform. What, exactly, is your point? You seem to vacillate between 'nazi imagery should not be allowed' and 'I don't want to see it banned'. If you don't want to see it banned, I have nothing to argue about with you, because we're on the same team here. At least one of us here is confused. |
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Teddy Kennedy
AKA PopeCrunch
Join date: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 136
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06-13-2005 14:59
3. If you want to invite people to discuss whether or not Nazi peraphenalia in SL is offensive to them, again there are numerous threads already in place on the subject or you can start your own. My comments to the individual in question here were regarding whether or not he was aware that the uniform would offend SOME people, not about whether or not I was offended. Edit: sup page 4 |
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Little Hailey
Unedited
Join date: 1 Jun 2005
Posts: 209
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06-13-2005 18:27
Except that your analogy screeches to a halt at the doors to Auschwitz -- which really did happen. Actually, I distinctly remember stating that difference, the one between fiction and reality, thanks for repeating it. Clarity is always a good thing. _____________________
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____________________________ _______________________________ ___________________________________ _______________________________________ ___________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Interesting things happen when stars fall from the sky... Vote Yes on 411 - Transfer of No Trans Items (under specific conditions) |
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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06-13-2005 23:09
I wonder what anyone's reaction would be to the following avatars: - Adolf Hitler - Joseph Stalin - KKK Grand Wizard - Confederate soldier - Osama Bin Ladin - Charles Manson - George Custer - Robert Oppenheimer Just because someone was a confederate soldier doesnt mean they were a slave owner or racist. In addition, just because someone was a union soldier doesnt mean they werent a racist. To put them in the list with those others is an insult. You think the confederate army was made up of wealthy slave owners? You think Civil War was fought mainly due to a disagreement over slavery? You think the average confederate soldier is as bad as all of the other people listed? Was this listed compiled after home schooling via Google? |
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Chrischun Fassbinder
k-rad!
Join date: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 154
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06-14-2005 03:19
People have long been using Nazis for shock type attention and advertising. A good example would be the old men's magazine covers on babesandnazis.com.
Almost no one supports the meaning but most can't help but look, like a car wreck. |