Mr. Linden, Preserve the Free Market

But I don't want a free market. I want things the way they were before the Money Exchangers won.

LOL.. I live in Central America... Which country.... And if you think these markets are heavily interfered with both by the domestic government, the neighboring governments, and interested corporations, then you are seriously deluded.

On another note.. TROLL, TROLL, TROLL... I return you to the previously scheduled forum drama.

I find this really funny how a guy who just started posting yesterday happened to have the odd coincidence of suggesting a non-specific change in the ratings system that we've been discussing for over a year, and now he's talking about being a consultant.

I find it funnier who he's addressed it to.

Lets see why I am against Free markets...

1. If all regulations were lifted, peoples pay would plunge from 20 bucks an hour to 5 cents.
2. Businesses would not have to offer health benefits
3. Businesses would not have to be safe
4. Businesses would not have to offer safe equiptment
5. No health regulations
6. People would be forced to work 18 hours a day.

And if you do not believe me, then consider this. In the 1870's If you were a wealthy person and wanted a steak, you bought the cow alive and had your own personal butcher cut it up and you ate it then and there because the meat sold in the markets was so bad because there was no regulations that people often died.

And remember the Triangle building disaster.

Caused by no regulations.

NUFF SAID.

Magnum, your points about a purely free market are well-reasoned. As Surreal pointed out, the Americas are really more socialist than capitalist. Surely, much more capitalist than other areas of the country, but that's another topic to discuss another time in another forum.

My comment to you is this - I don't think this change to the ratings system has anything to do with whether SL is a free market economy or not. The change is not affecting any regulations on an economic system, merely an amount of money-flow.

So, really discussion about the ratings sytem change and free market economy is ah... moot.

What about those who cannot work? Or who do not have the skill to make nice things.

Oh oh wait I know

"Are there not poor houses that the poor can live in?" Scrooge, A christmas Carol. 1841AD

No I was explaining why I am against a free market economy. Not the ratings system. I do that on another post.

Magnum, not to digress too much from my last point (that this being moot to the ratings system change)

-- In real life, people go to school to learn skills. Without schooling of some sort, you get a crappy job. Why should SL be any different? If you don't have the skills, learn them.

There are plenty of resources - web, books, other players - ready to help you learn whatever skills you want in SL. What continues to amaze me in SL is the vast amount of beautiful creations made by amateurs.

Understood, but look at Chicago's last post - it's clear he equates the rating system change with a step toward free markets. I disagree.

I digress.

But then, in the real world, there are people who are disabled and their only way of being normal is to be able to enjoy Second Life.

My Wording was not the best for the message but this is what I ment.

nvm

I edited my comments. I believe my changers are closer to what I ment to say

I've removed mine, and I'll respond to your comments now. You can remove my quote in your post if you'd like.

Anyway - maybe you're apprehensious about learning new skills, but the beauty of SL is how easily amateurs can pick up learning stuff and be successful. While I know some professionals who are doing well here, the overwhelming majority of people I know that are successful in SL have no formal training in Photoshop or 3-D graphics. (Okay, so scripters are generally programmers)

I sent you an IM in response to yours. Why don't we take this branch of the conversation there?

. My wife is in the hospital because her first chemotherapy treatment brought her white blood cell count down to low. When she is at home and is able to sit at the computer, The only reason she even logs into Sl is to talk to her friends. Now her cancer is not comparable to a terminal illness, as I'm told she will be ok after enough treatments.

. (But in my experience, a person who is terminally ill, cares nothing about the amount of money they have).
If SL is the ONLY place that one can "live" due to there RL circumstances.. (I could be way off) But I'd guess someone in a situation like that would either be the best friend someone could have, or they would be the hardest working person that you would know. " Or both" And would probably be a SL renaissance man/woman. They would be able to build script etc.. If someone is in SL to escape the harsh reality of there RL, the LAST thing they want is your pity. There here because they want to live as normal as possible, make friends, have fun, and possibly do something they will be remembered for.

. But then again Ive not seen everything in the world. And I'm sure there could be terminally ill people in SL who have no desire to succeed or cannot. And would rather just have as much accessible to them as possible, to have fun without limits. And if this is the point your trying to make, and you are worried about that... Why don't you make the SL Charity Fund for the Terminally Ill? Perhaps a SL "Make A Wish Foundation".
If you or anyone is TRULY concerned about this, I would guess something like that would be the best course of action.

The way you posted this comment appears as though you are "Using" this type of scenario simply to make YOUR point not theirs. But again, I don't know everything so, please do not take offense if I simply misread your motives.

that's pretty much all I have to say about that

Kyoot ^^
I likes my platypussies.

There is no war. LL needs to stick to the free market.

The correlation is obvious. I posted my letter yesterday and within hours, Phillip Linden must have read it and decided to take action.

This is the power that well thought out letters can have. It gets people to think. To think about what the right course of action is.

Magnum, my friend, there is no free lunch.

I've stayed away from this thread and seeing as how I am no economist I should probably continue on that path. But.....

What I would like to know from the "free-market" folks is:

Where will the money come from? Do not say GOM/IGE as they get their lindens from players who get them from LL.

What is the linden valued against? The US mint does not just print out dough...the money must be valued against something before it is released into the system. As far as I know there is no gold in them therr gubner linden hills. So LL bases the amount of money they put into the system on the number of folks playing and working in SL and likely on other factors such as land...I'm not sure just speculating. The only way they can put that money into the system is buy paying allowances based on some factor whether it is the persons rank in the world or the persons contributions to the world.

Everyone complains when LL pays folks for creating content, hosting events, gaining ratings yet in other "worlds" it is fine to expect payment for such endeavors. LL is a company. If I were to go to work for an amusement park and say I hosted a concert which brought 300 people into the park, shouldn't I expect to be compensated. Or think of other games...when you are attacking an ogre in a mmorpg, don't you expect some loot at the end or are you just doing it for the shiggles. Whatever content a person is creating for this world whether it is personality, scripts or builds; the content deserves a reward from the company these folks pay to work for.

My main concern with a free market in a virtual world is that I cannot buy a new pair of milano blahniks on SL...Though I love the virtual creations that I have purchased from amazing SL designers, they are not real, in my closet and I cannot (most of the time) resell them at a yard sale or consignment shop if I become bored with them. They can also be ruined by one new release (some of you remember the crotches of the olden days) which would render my purchase of no value whatsoever. I, also, cannot buy a buttload of designer outfits at wholesale and set up an outlet mall in SL. So only the few top designers would have any valuable items and the rest would be left to wander aimlessly trying to hone skills with what little money they have been able to purchase (which would be priced through the roof due to demand exceeding supply yadda yadda). There are still too many factors you are not considering which make a viable free market economy.

The consumers pay a hefty price to live in SL, they work real jobs in order to finance their SL dreams and some do not wish to live two seperate RLs. Without a consumer base, the producer base would have no outlet for their wares. Without a stipend SL would have no consumer base. What you want is another RL to exist in a world without need driven economic forces. What you want is for me to have to pay 50 usd to puchase 50 lindends to buy a virtual loaf of bread. Won't work...didn't work in the US or anywhere else in the world.

We don't eat lunch in SL....we do not eat. We pay to be a part of a system where we can attain our goals of whimsy not of necessity. There are no needs in SL only wants because SL is not RL it is SL. Why would you want to duplicate a failed system of economy. If "free market" economies worked so famously why the hell does the US have a welfare system, free education (not free market education but education that you do not pay for which if you know the system can take you through grad school) and food stamps? In a free market society Microsoft would own everything with a chip because there would be no one to protect the upstarts from a monopoly gobbling them up.

Once you get out of Econ 101 try reading a bit into the history of the free market pitfalls such as: price gouging, insider trading, moral hazard, price fixing, adverse selection, the oliganomy/monopoly, principle agent problems. This is not I repeat is not a real world. We do not have necessary industry to drive the market. We have no mineral deposits to claim, no true land ownership rights beyond a temporary lease of space. LL has no government to uphold contractual obligations between avatars. The problems in a virtual world would exceed even those posed by the free market fantasy in the real world.

Blehh...Common sense on occasion needs to override the textbook examples of the true forms of government and economy in order to create something which will actually work in reality. That which the architect renders, though beautiful in principle, may not be feasible in reality...it takes an engineer to look at the rendering and make logical changes in order to keep the walls from falling in.

This thread makes Milton Friedman cry.

Lessons Learned in this thread.

Never Debate with someone that is Self absorbed in their own lack of intelegence as others may not be able to tell the difference.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver

Friedman was hardly the epitome of free anything. He supported the laissaiz faire government attitude towards business but his stance on Apartheid and his support of Ian Smith as well as his support of Pinochet in Chile prove that freedom of man was not a part of his ideal society. Call it what it is pro-megacorp economy built on the backs of the working class at any cost.