In another post I was reading over on the Land and Economy forum, a fellow SL-er makes a few mentions of the cultural distinctions found in California. They mention California being "leftist, lunatic, liberal" as well as "the land of Hollywod, the land of hippies in Haight-Ashbury, the land of Los Angeles, the Redwoods".
There were a few mentions about San Francisco as well: "The people in San Francisco perceive themselves to be in a more liberal environment, to be more unorthodox, to be experimental, avant-garde, etc."
I started to wonder about California's cultural landscape in relation to the rest of the country and began asking "Are we out of touch? Or, are we ahead of the curve?".
Are we out of touch? Is the 'California' way of life out of step with everyone else or are we a step ahead?
I've always viewed California as being a step ahead, not out of step. We have a rich cultural landscape in CA, rivaled by few other places in the country. We have a history of doing things differently that sometimes contributes to the 'Land of Fruits and Nuts' label so many like to apply with a smirk.
Does that history show us whether we're out of touch? Or, does it show that we're ahead of the curve?
Certainly we've seen some values grow from liberal grassroots efforts and expand to a national level. 20 years ago, people who were concerned with humankinds effects on the environment could be summed up with the 'tree hugger' label and often found hanging out in Northern California. Since then, we've seen environmental awareness grow beyond our little bubble and spread across the state and it continues to spread across the nation. It's not just the 'tree huggers' anymore. Out of touch or ahead of the curve?
We've been on the forefront of many other social and cultural topics such as marriage rights. CA was the first state in the country to strike down the ban on interracial marriage - going against popular opinion and definately against the cultural climate at the time. Eventually, the remaining states followed CA's lead and now many cannot imagine a time where an interracial couple was legally barred from marriage. Were we out of touch, or ahead of the curve?
Yes, California has its craziness, its absurdness, its 'nuts and fruits' - but that is part of what makes up this state. Not all of us are liberal-minded folks, we have Republicans, we have far-right wingers, holy-rollers, NASCAR dads - they're all here.
We do have a unique culture. What remains to be seen is whether we're out of touch or if we're ahead of the curve. Does being one step ahead make you out of touch?
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Out of touch - or - ahead of the curve? |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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06-08-2005 17:44
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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06-08-2005 17:59
It's not only a stereotype, but one completely out of touch with the rest of California. California does not consist only of Hollywood and San Francisco. California has some of the strictest and least liberal laws of any place I've lived. California is governed by a Republican, even if he is a joke. The only reason California gets a Liberal reputation is because that's where some people (celebrities) have the biggest platforms. Most of them don't even reside and vote in California.
Those who declare those things of California have never lived there, or seen any other parts of California on television. Let them try living in Bakersfield, or Fresno, or Sacramento, or Carmel, or Cambria, and then talk about how Liberal California is. _____________________
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Loki Pico
Registered User
Join date: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,938
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06-08-2005 18:15
A lot of fads and fashions originate on the West coast and gradually works it way East, I think thats always been the case. But I get the impression that it starts there and never matures. As it spreads East, it either loses popularity or is improved on, while the ones on the West coast still cling to how they birthed it, long past its prime.
Its a stereotype thing, though. Most places arent like you think they are til you get there, then its hard to remember how you imagined it. |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-08-2005 18:19
California governors since statehood:
1 "Union" 1 "American". 2 "Lecompton Democrats". 2 "Independant Democrats". 10 "Democrats" 21 "Republicans". I have lived in CA, have many, many friends and relatives in CA, and I can tell you by virtue of these facts, that most of the stereotypes about California are untrue or greatly exagerrated. I was born and raised in MN. If you want to talk about a liberal state, just ask me.  This penchant for stereotyping has obviously trickled its way into SL, and that's a real shame. What's an even bigger shame is that the main propagator of stereotyping in SL proclaims himself to be liberal...  Isn't that sort of backwards?Maybe not, these days anyway. I find that I am disassociating myself more and more from the Democrat's version of "liberalism". Edit to add: I don't think CA is out of touch. A little ahead of the curve, yes. We need that though. Someone has to probe uncharted waters and push the envelope, or we all stagnate. Also, didn't I hear somewhere that Philip is from South Dakota? _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Lianne Marten
Cheese Baron
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 2,192
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06-08-2005 18:22
The only thing I know is that California is "ahead of the curve" regarding environmental regulations. And for that i'm grateful.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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06-08-2005 18:45
Edit to add: I don't think CA is out of touch. A little ahead of the curve, yes. We need that though. Someone has to probe uncharted waters and push the envelope, or we all stagnate. Thanks Nolan - I didn't want this to be a liberal vs. conservative thread - I wanted to discuss whether CA's culture and progressiveness is seen as 'out of touch', or whether it is a case of one step ahead that gets misconstrued as 'out of touch'. _____________________
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
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06-08-2005 18:50
Well ...
I grew up in Pasadena, live in Hollywood, and I can say that most of the people I meet are, indeed, quite liberal. As Jonquille said, however, many, many of the surrounding areas -- more precisely, the suburbs, are quite conservative. Orange County is pretty damn conservative. Also, I believe the Valley is getting more conservative as well. _____________________
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-08-2005 19:02
Thanks Nolan - I didn't want this to be a liberal vs. conservative thread - I wanted to discuss whether CA's culture and progressiveness is seen as 'out of touch', or whether it is a case of one step ahead that gets misconstrued as 'out of touch'. I understand that. My comments had mostly to do with your citing of this attitude: They mention California being "leftist, lunatic, liberal" as well as "the land of Hollywod, the land of hippies Don't worry, I won't get into a dems vs. reps discussion, as I am not too fond of either party to be honest  , and I know that's not what you want this to be about.If you had cited someone's cry that CA was a bunch of Conservatives, I would have tried to balance that as well. _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Pituca FairChang
Married to Garth
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 2,679
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06-08-2005 20:23
Well ... I grew up in Pasadena, live in Hollywood, and I can say that most of the people I meet are, indeed, quite liberal. As Jonquille said, however, many, many of the surrounding areas -- more precisely, the suburbs, are quite conservative. Orange County is pretty damn conservative. Also, I believe the Valley is getting more conservative as well. I live in Orange County, am a Democrat. I remember how horrified my mother ( a Berkleyite) was when I moved to the hot bed of conservatism. But now? Not all that conservative. Remember Loretta Sanchez? If you want provincial, try Sacramento, Bakersfield, Stockton, Modesto etc etc etc. Not to knock them. They are the backbone of California. I love the whole state. I grew up in Sacramento, lived also in Marysville, Fresno, Oakland, Berkley and Riverside. And now reside in Irvine. Anyhoo, California is and always has been very avant garde. _____________________
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Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
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06-08-2005 20:36
Having lived in San Francisco for 3 years I would say a little of both. Out of touch with mainstream America but ahead of the curb on some things.
San Fran's reputation as a haven for the radical left is well deserved btw. Don't know about the rest of the state so I will keep my comments to San Fran alone. Loved lots of things about it while I was there. If you can put up with a few big negatives there might not be a more fun place to live. _____________________
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Paolo Portocarrero
Puritanical Hedonist
Join date: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 2,393
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06-08-2005 20:47
I mean no disrespect, but doesn't this very thread portend California's propensity toward a highly inflated sense of self-importance? Without a doubt, it's a trend-setting state. However, in many ways, I think California is buckling under its own weight.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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06-08-2005 22:12
I've always seen the location in question as being both, really... it actually reminds me of the seminal film Forrest Gump, where Forrest is hailed as a hero but he's so unwitting about it, it's like some kinda surreal fantasyland -- it IS a land of big moviemaking and all that, after all. By being out of touch, disconnected in some ways, that liberates you from certain burdens -- or at least certain perceived burdens -- and you can fly away. Of course, this gives rise to a certain amount of problems, one of them being the bizarre happenings in crime. But then again, we get some very nice things like Silicon Valley on the long-term, dot-com bomb as part of that temporal package.
Reality distortion screens, virtual reality distortion screens, I mean, doesn't it all point to a dream of somesort? _____________________
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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06-08-2005 23:11
I mean no disrespect, but doesn't this very thread portend California's propensity toward a highly inflated sense of self-importance? Without a doubt, it's a trend-setting state. However, in many ways, I think California is buckling under its own weight. It definately could, Paolo - but I was elaborating on thoughts I've had about non-Californians views of California. I grew up partly in Nevada, partly in Montana, and mostly here in California. I've also traveled around the country extensively and it seems most everyone has an opinion on CA - most of the time it's been one of those rolls the eyes comments about how whacked we are. I do wonder if the inflated sense of self-importance comes from a combination of this underlying us vs. them attitude and the powerhouse mentality. CA is the largest state by population (est. 36Million) and has the largest GDP of any state and any other country in the world. It is only outranked by the other combined 49 states, China, Japan, Germany, and the United Kingdom. So, in some sense, it is an important state - but maybe we think too much of ourselves? Who knows. I don't think CA is buckling, I think it's definately going through some major growing pains. Poor city planning (suburban sprawl), poor mass transit systems and infratstructure in general, are starting to confront serious issues that have no quick or easy fix. Good long term planning and expanded funding for infrastructure with some growth limits (for sprawl - not population) will go along way to helping resolve these issues. _____________________
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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06-08-2005 23:12
If you can put up with a few big negatives there might not be a more fun place to live. What negatives? I can think of a few obvious: traffic, traffic, traffic.  _____________________
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Billy Grace
Land Market Facilitator
Join date: 8 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,307
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06-09-2005 00:37
Horrible traffic, high cost of living (i.e. food, housing etc...), the closed in feeling you get from not having many wide open spaces, not having a yard, few trees etc...
The positives are sure great if you can take the negatives long term. I loved my time in San Fran but every time I went home and got a big ole breath of fresh air which drew me back, reminding me how much I love grass and space... hehe _____________________
I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 - |
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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06-09-2005 01:07
Horrible traffic, high cost of living (i.e. food, housing etc...), the closed in feeling you get from not having many wide open spaces, not having a yard, few trees etc... Other negatives: Strict gun laws, not being able to shoot a man for breaking into your house for fear of being sued, star-struck tourists, celebrities, unusually high number of pitbulls (seems that way in LA, anyway)  , unusually high number of flakes, wannabe rapstars or rockstars, drugs.Positives: Cultural melting pot, environmentally concerned, exotic foods, desert/forest/beach/hills/mountains, drugs. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Alex Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 228
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06-09-2005 01:08
I don't mean to knock the other states but there is a reason we're having this conversation about CA and not them. Someone said something about dreams. CA is where many people seek to make them happen, right or wrong, real or not. And it seems that it's been that way historically too, not just today.
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Ursula Madison
Chewbacca is my co-pilot
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 713
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06-09-2005 01:17
Every time I hear someone ranting about how liberal California is, I am reminded of that reknowned liberal Ronald Reagan.
Sure, Hollywood is home to many liberal ranting celebrities. But Hollywood is a very very small part of California. Remember kids, not everyone in Kansas is a farmer, not everyone in New York lives in Manhattan, and not everyone in California is Sean Penn. _____________________
"Huh... did everything just taste purple for a second?" -- Philip J. Fry
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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06-09-2005 01:22
Remember kids, not everyone in Kansas is a farmer, not everyone in New York lives in Manhattan, and not everyone in California is Sean Penn. --But everyone in California has had sex with Madonna. _____________________
"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Ursula Madison
Chewbacca is my co-pilot
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 713
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06-09-2005 01:26
--But everyone in California has had sex with Madonna. Pfft, who hasn't? _____________________
"Huh... did everything just taste purple for a second?" -- Philip J. Fry
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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06-09-2005 01:44
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence."
-Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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06-09-2005 02:27
Y'all have it all wrong: California is completely, gloriously, self-consciously behind the curve. It's the most reactionary state in the American nation, a stubborn, unmoving, don't-tread-on-me culture completely mired in the past.
And what a past. One in which people still believed that community could make the difference, politics was experimentation, and the Bible - as in love your fellow human, and take responsibility for him or her - was still the Word. Not to mention the incredibly optimistic practices of planting palm trees everywhere, and outlawing rain. We live in an age when utopianism is reactionary. Which states are ahead of the curve? West Virginia. Florida. Arkansas. New Jersey. |
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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06-09-2005 02:50
We live in an age when utopianism is reactionary. Which states are ahead of the curve? West Virginia. Florida. Arkansas. New Jersey. As a resident of New Jersey, I can say we are still living under a government that think it is 100 years ago under mob rule, and a people who are ignorant apathetic fuckwads who don't know how to drive. We are sadly behind the curve with over 600 school municipalities laided with enormous gobs of management and golden benefits packages making property taxes $5kUS for a reasonably sized house. We are sadly behind the curve in that the Feds have set records for the number of politicians arrested on corruption charges in a single year. Our last governor gave the top Homeland Security job to his lover who had no qualifications, putting our state in grave risk. Our upcoming governor (Corzine) has bought the election out and out. The Republican challenger is a complete cook, but that's what you get when only 250,000 Republicans vote in the primary election. Our Democratic party boss, Norcross, should be deported to a Gulag for the amount of corruption he is involved in. Our cost of living was rated at $15/hour to be able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment, car insurance, and utilities. Car insurance is highest in the nation. Housing prices are ridiculously inflated. We have the KKK capitol of the Northeast in Oxford. On top of that we have the national problems like illegal immegration, bloated healthcare costs, excessive litigation, high imprisonment rate (Camden was rated #1 least safe city in the US in 2004, yay!), and debt from a lagging economy. _____________________
Hiro Pendragon
------------------ http://www.involve3d.com - Involve - Metaverse / Emerging Media Studio Visit my SL blog: http://secondtense.blogspot.com |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-09-2005 03:04
Wow.
Amazing. Juro, guess I was the least of your worries. No wonder folks can't get along in SL. Love how many ignore that there have been twice as many Republican Governors elected in CA as have been Democrats. I suppose its a great scapegoat. Why am I NOT suprised? By the way, Seth, I know you fancy yourself an expert, but you're dead wrong. Excuse me, I have a frilly elven ship to admire. _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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06-09-2005 04:53
Asking if something is 'ahead of the curve' is sort of like asking your friends if you're 'cool'. If you have to ask, you probably aren't.
Go back and play your no-friend-o, california, we're going out to chase some skirts! |
