W-Hat Question and Answer thread!

Late to the party as usual - saw some questions/comments I felt deserved another perspective.

Beau Perkins
The main complaint I hear is mass attacks on Avatars with negative ratings, please explain the type of situations you feel warrants such attacks. How would you explain the high number of complaints that claim they WERE Negrated by a bunch of W-hat members for no reason at all then.

First - negative ratings are something so ridiculous to get worked up over that I can't even begin to find words for it. Keep that in mind as it completely colors my perspective.

Electing to use the tools placed in the game by LL is not griefing. Someone acts like an ass? Give them a neg-rate. Often more than one person percieves the behavior/appearance/whatever of someone to be unpleasant and worthy of a neg-rate. Just because they both happen to be in W-Hat it's assumed "ZOMG ORGANIZED MASS NEGGING WTF". People assume that they are 100% infalliable and take the neg-rates as "well that person must just be a jerk" when it's quite possible that it's them being the jerk. So, these 'organized mass neg-rates' that W-Hat allegedly participates in are all a matter of perception.

David Valentino If you aren't griefers, how come several of your members have been "punished" for griefing, and then whined about it? And when these members were suspended, or otherwise punished, how come they weren't removed from the group, but were instead defended heavily by fellow members?

People are SO QUICK to scream "GRIEFING OMG GRIEFING" that half the time it really isn't griefing. Hell, people think neg-rates given by a single person is griefing. As far as your vague references to defense of punished W-Hat members, that may have been before my time - but I would like specific examples so that maybe I can attempt to clarify.

How come W-Hat members act like obnoxious children so often, and many times give the impression that they are only brave(obnoxious) when traveling in packs and using mob-tactics?

I'm not sure if you were present when W-Hat paid a visit to a Perilous Pleasures tour. Infact, I come semi-regularly but keep quiet for the most part. We behaved ourselves and are quite capable of doing so. When we were at PP one of our members, I can't recall who, decided to be silly and pretend to be "stuck" in one of the devices. It got a good giggle and onward we went. I still swing by PP on a semi regular basis but I'm quite quiet and not for any reason other than I'm generally there to get away/take a break from Baku/W-Hatness.

As far as acting obnoxious or like children, I'll admit that we do silly things that are sometimes percieved as grief by individuals who can't/won't/don't/refuse to see the humor inherent in the internet. One of my favorite SL memories is going to some sex-anim shop with fellow W-Hatter Eata Kitty. At one point we donned robot costumes and percieved to "test" the anims as robots. Another couple was standing near by, also "testing" and we decided to stand there and watch them. They weren't creeped out until Eata decided to snap a picture. The camera-snap alerted them to the robots which was met with a "omg, no pictures" and a "lol". We hadn't said anything, we hadn't done anything - the absurdity of voyeuristic robots was amusing enough.

Another stupid W-Hat trick we pulled was going to a "Best Furry Competition/Dance" dressed again in our robot-costumes. We didn't speak, we just danced. This is the kind of asshattery *I* preffer to engage in. Entirely silly, entirely absurd and above all harmless. Granted, this occured more often when the event support was different because there were more events - but it was still fun.


Iridian Oz would anyone else like to try to answer my question (without posting a table of brahmi labials?) about why there is a w-hat endorsed answer on the w-hat website to a question about whether or not SL users are "****" which says *yes- pretty much*, and also goes on to attack the personal lives of SL users? this is supposedly a w-hat questions and answers thread so i really don't understand the avoidance of my question. i think its a valid question as ryen jade has linked us to it as some sort of proof that you arent greifers. i could understand if it was just a comment, but its published as part of some sort of guide for new w-hatters. if a get another deflective answer, i think i will just assume that you have no defense for it and move on and pretend your group doesnt exist.

Honestly? Yeah - I think the vast majority of people on SL take it WAY WAY WAY too seriously and a significant portion of them are individuals trying to recapture some aspect of their youth. Personally, I try to avoid those people or at least to poke-fun at them in a way that maybe they'll go 'yeah, maybe I am taking the internet way too seriously.'. Instead though, unfortunately, mostly the reaction is INTERNET: SERIOUS BUSINESS.

It's somewhat of an accurate portrait of Second-Life though, is it not? All of the e-thugs trying to be intarweb tough guys? All of the ridiculously skinny little female avatars with gigantic boobies running around scantily clad? (I'm just as guilty here, glass house/stones I know.)

The thing is, you'll meet a lot more dipsticks on SL that fit the description on that webpage than you will cool people. At least, that's how SL's panned out for me.

Personally, I don't hold animosity towards net-speakers I just tend to percieve those people as stupid and/or lacking in intelligence. If you can't be bothered to spell properly, or to convey your meaning clearly in a TEXT BASED MEDIUM then you WILL be percieved as unintelligent, ignorant and generally a lesser person by many. Myself included.

Furries, well, lol - the furries I've had encounters with are without a doubt the quickest to leap to histrionics and "OMG FURSECUTION". Hence them getting painted with the "lol furries" brush.

"Internet: SERIOUS BUSINESS" is a response to the overly-intense attitude people take towards the internet and it's occurances.

It is not meant to be taken entirely literally. The document is fairly large, and you are focusing on a part that is, by contrast, very, very, very small. Read it in the context of the entire document and tell me if you get the impression that I feel that way. If, for some reason, you do, then you have gotten the wrong impression, which demonstrates my point about SA forum members interpreting it differently.

If you look about 7 posts above that you will see that Ryen brought it up first.

Yes, he is. The group is hidden, partly because of threats I am not going to get in to.

so who appointed you judge? why do you think its your place to *poke fun*? if you really think these people are silly then REALLY ignore them. in exposing their supposed stupidity you yourself are taking the net (and yourself) so seriously (this is where i see extreme irony) that you think only your way is the right way. dont worry about how people spend their leisure time. god we have come a long way the last ten years on the net. we now have some net users ridiculing other internet users rather than non- net users making fun of all net users.

'but but but we're not like THOSE users, they are fucked up man!'


editing to add that i didnt see anything in the w-hat website statement about net speak. it was a charge leveled at second lifers in general without any real qualifiers, let alone netspeak. lets not get sidetracked.

also, i am familiar with the meaning behing the "internet serious business" retort. i find it ironic that folks who employ it are in fact taking the net so seriously that they feel the need to condescend to others, in effect taking it too seriously themselves. most people go to the net to goof off. ridiculing them for that is like ridiculing the guy at the public pool who wants to do cannonballs instead of a swan dives because you are a diver. if you dont like him doing cannonballs go find a pool that is serious about diving.

I don't see how I'm acting as a judge, so I can't respond to that part of your statement/question - but I can try and work with the rest.

Why do I think it's my place to poke fun? I try and live my life in a way that makes me happy. I make a concentrated effort to NOT take myself too seriously. I try to find the humor in all things - perhaps my sense of humor is slightly dark and/or warped at times, but I'd rather laugh at something than be intense and brooding all the time. Life is too short to be filled with drama and histrionics. I was like that when I was 19-20 years old, I grew out of it. I've made the same mistakes, I've had internet-romances turn sour. I've had my share of the drama and the backstabbing - I've moved past it and I can laugh at it now and go "oh lord, I did that - god, I was dumb". When I see other people do it, I find it even funnier because I have distance that grants me another perspective.

Your use of the word "stupidity" is your own - I never said I thought anyone was stupid, just ridiculous and worthy of lollin' at. You make these assumptions/projections that I think my way is the only and most righteous way. I know it isn't, but it's the one that pleases me most.

As far as the "well, you are on the internet, you are a loser too" part of your post... I am well aware that we are all gigantic dorks, every single one of us, for one reason or another. I don't mind that in the least. I know this, I don't claim to be anything other than myself. Hell, even Vin Diesel likes Dungeons and Dragons. Why not laugh about these things and take amusement in it. Have you never laughed at something about another person?

To quote (probably mis-quote, but it's close) Love and Rockets (how cliche, I know) 'Live a life you love, choose a God you trust and don't take it all so seriously.' It's probably the best advice I've ever heard.

EDIT:
To specifically address the net-speak concerns, perhaps it makes me an elitist, but if you can't be assed to at least spell things properly then you probably aren't worth my time. I really have very little tolerance for ignorant, uneducated and otherwise stupid people. To me, habitual use of 'u' instead of 'you' (or worse yet breaking things down to 'hay u gunna b home 4 dinnr?') indicates someone lacking in intelligence and wit. That's the harsh reality of it.

thanks for the honest answers. i too have been through many of the things you state you have been through, i just tend to try to counsel rather than ridicule those that fall into those same traps.

i get my enjoyment from being creative, collaborating with others on projects (not just in SL, havent been round long enough for that yet i suppose), chatting with friends RL and SL, etc.

on the "stupidity" part, i was taking that from this quote by you, "I just tend to percieve those people as stupid".

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my useage there - there's a massive difference between someone who I see and think "lol, dumbass", someone who engenders a "hm, he's kind of dimwitted" and someone I think "ugh, worthless-idiot with three braincells". The 'ugh, worthless idiot' response is reserved for very few while many recieve the 'lol, dumbass' response. Many of the people lumped into the 'lol, dumbass' catergory are good people and can be quite nice, but it's the love of internet drama that makes me laugh at them and deem them to be lol-worthy and something to be made-fun-of or to tease. Generally the dimwitted are ignored unless they refuse to be - then it's open season

I do think it can be a little dangerous to judge people on such things at times. you really don't know if they are unintelligent or just lazy. i am lazy about capitalization, commas, and apostrophes although i hold a master's degree and can definately write properly if the situation warrants. I will agree that the *hay d00d* type stuff is going a little too far and can be very annoying. i left infantry online as well as other games because of this type of mentality. i didnt complain to them or tell them where i was going, so hopefully they will stay there!

anyway, thanks for the insights, i really do appreciate it.

Fun fact of the day: I was wearing my Hunter outfit and got 500L$ for a "Best in Robot Outfit" prize.

Thanks incredibly to Alexandra DeFarge for taking over the Q&A while I'm in Dallas and pretty much laying my feelings down on the table. Sometimes I'm not the most eloquent guy, and she did a dang good job of getting it out.

Also, no, this isn't an alt I just don't post on these forums much, although the building section certainly interests me now that I look at it.

Shut up Alex you don't know what we go through every day, damn mundane.

Better be careful before I get the Kadaichachachacha Dancers stuck on my trail.

did you see the flash movie I made about that guy

Iridian,

<<i hold a master's degree and can definately write properly if the situation warrants.>>

Um - I would be interested to know when the situation *doesn't* warrant clear communication?

Mhm. All of us. You guys, you guys have exceptions. Can't paint with a broad brush when it comes to W-Hat, because that's just wrong. But furries? "Well, -THEY-, on the other hand, deserve -EVERYTHING- they get.."

Time and time again. "C'mon guys, we don't bother anyone! We're just having fun. Oh, except for furries, yeah, we go after them, but heh I mean come ON, they all deserve it."

That isn't gonna fly, Chief.

I look at it this way. Some of us, we were here on SL, doing some 3d modeling of various types of avatars.. A good majority of you guys came on, five hundred strong, and felt that this needed to be rectified. One of the BIGGEST instigators of some of the 'its just fun!' stuff that occurred that weekend, was W-Hat's underage founder. He did such "LOL!" stuff as telling LL's staff, whom we knew rather well at that point, that, because of the avatars we were building, we were into pedophilia and bestiality.

That, let me tell you, has had some just HI-fucking-larious, long lasting implications.

(Thanks for picking a PG sim to do that in. All of the best deviant sexual activity happens in sims where you can get kicked off for saying 'nipples'.)

Look. Many of us have been SA readers long before some of you were even SA members.

We know your position on the matter; at least in the broad sense.

Anything stated otherwise simply serves as a bullet point, posted to not run afoul of Linden Lab.

THAT being said, we've had some decently good times with various members of W-Hat. Because, you know, while on an overall level you guys don't really return the favor, we do realize that not everyone in W-Hat is a shithead. Most of the parties we've thrown in Lusk have been attended by a considerable number of W-Hats. To no real incident.

But please. Realize that saying, "Well we don't grief anyone! Except furries but that's okay!" isn't going to sit well with most people who aren't aware of the whole "SA's-position-on-furries" thing.

For the most part, we were here before you guys were, and we never bothered anyone. And whenever you guys go to an event or locale, EVEN IF you think it's pathetic, and try to fuck it up, it isn't going to be looked at as anything but 'griefing'. (Pardon me for thinking that this word is overused, anyhow.)

And yeah. The 'internets is stupid'. Damn. If you gize's relevationin' powers is for being that strong, send me an IM when Jebus be on his way back, because we can all get ourselves raptured the hell up together.

If it wasn't the Internet, people would be spending their sweatpants-time sitting around and watching reruns of ALF or Chico and the Man in polyester pants, instead of wearing bling and playing Tringo on SL. You guys didn't stumble on some profound and earth-shattering "Lowtax's Law" by declaring that the Internet is, for the most part, a wasteland. That happened right about when Prodigy and GEnie folded and all of the 50 year old VAX administrators had to find a new venue for their Farah Fawcett-slash-Frodo PCX files.

You guys, for the most part, just choose to prance about as anime characters instead of slapping on a wolf avatar. And for some reason, you guys think this makes you like the Enforcers of the Playground, the 'cool kids' who hung out by the chain-link fence in sixth grade, smoking 'Marbs' in leather jackets and listening to Aerosmith, declaring who is and who isn't a 'dweeb' and playing full-contact keep-away with the bespectacled Jewish kid against the gymnasium wall.

I didn't start a flame war. I posted questions on a Q&A thread. I was attacked with false allegations for doing so. Typical. W-Hat, Ryen and others have apparently learned alot watching the present administration use spin to make folks believe the most ridiculous lies.

Just keep telling folks W-Hat doesn't grief as a group, and maybe they will begin to believe it. It's just certain bad apples I'm sure. W-Hat doesn't do things to intentionally piss folks off. They don't do things they know while cause trouble. They don't act with a mob mentality at times. They don't (even though anyone on the forums has seen such evidence) act like morons and little children when confronted about thier actions.

But one thing I do agree with Ryen on, although I would narrow it down from Second Life in general to more lame groups such as SA, W-Hat and other negative attention seeking groups = W-Hat is made up of mostly huge (edited) who only wish to incite flame wars, belittle others for their own personal amusement, and throw a tantrum when something doesn't go their way.

;_;

<deleted personal attack against a group>

Good for you. others don't feel the same, as you know. Mass neg rating is against the ToS and done for the purpose of causing another person grief or bad feelings.



So if you don't consider it griefing then it isn't? Hmm..good luck with that philosophy in life.



Horsing around and doing nothing to cause others harm, grief or obstruct or lessen thier ability to enjoy SL is not a problem, and as you know, is not what we are talking about here.



Not a big deal, but it would seem the only reason you did it was to make them feel uncomfortable. You see the cause and effect here?



So, surrounding a furry in a wall of AVs and obstructing thier movement and making them feel very uncomfortable is just innocent fun? You weren't trying to piss them off, make them feel uncomfortable, or cause trouble? Yeah..riiight. Why go there and do that if not to cause trouble or strife?



So you are more than willing to force your idea of fun on others that you knoiw will take offense? Poking fun is a bit one sided. Usually the person being poked doesn't enjoy it. And W-Hat seems to be all about not caring, as long as THEY think it's funny. Please look up the word "consideration" in the dictionary.



Sorry that you've met so many dipsticks in SL. perhaps you need to hang out with a different crowd? I'd say a good 80% of the folks I've met on SL have been friendly and seem like pretty decent folks.

Haha holy shit did you make that Huns? I was laughing the entire time.

Just for clarification, I enjoy good satire and shake my head at those that get overly offended by what is obviously meant to be humor. I joke around...alot.

My whole point I guess, is that I don't force my idea of humor on others, nor seek to make others feel bad.

W-Hat has some members that I've actually liked as individuals. They also have some damn funny builds.

It is the "we do what we want and to hell with you if you can't take a joke" attitude that I don't care for. Nor do I enjoy cruel humor, bigotry, or bullying.

So while W-Hat does alot of fun and funny things I'm sure, it is the use of group harrassment, intentional acts to cause bad feelings, and outright rudeness that I speak of in regards to my dislike of them as a group.

If you are a W-Hat member and don't participate in these sort of activities, then that's great.

Huns (or someone who still has it) needs to post the Kadaichachacha Dancers story/thread/flash animation so people can see what kind of lunacy we are addressing here.

Late for work, I'll be back to spread more "pro W-Hat propaganda" later. (Seriously, someone told me that's what I'm doing on the forums in world! lol!)

Where do I sign up ?

Yes, please.

(P.S. it's Kadiatcha Dancers)



Don't call us, we'll call you.

That's funny. lol

I too like some of the builds the W-Hat guys make. That sheep burger thing is hilarious.

David Valentino is a W-hat Alt account.