Chinese woman in Germany earning six figure salary speculating on SL real estate?

"Anshe can come in and afford to bid 2.2 cents a square meter, or what ever her, I would think, automatic bid level is."

Automatic bid level? You know absolutely nothing about this, do you? Prices are a factor of

- type of land (pg or non)
- how it is terrafromed
- distance from telehub
- how much reserved land
- a number of many other factors.

It really upsets me that people completely confuse these conversations with so much dis-information. It leads people into thinking things that are completely invalid and inaccurate.

Which is why i was a little upset about this six figure salary by philip (or whoever). I think it is just more dis-information. My analysis does not support those figures.

This is a typical ad-hominem attack. Because Anshe does things you disagree with, therefore when she's saying smart things she must still be wrong.

Whatever the case may be, she is right. As a community we *MUST* stop this infighting. We are all inner feted core. This is probably the smartest thing said in these forums in a very very long time.



Yes, this is an example of rational self-interest working well. Anshe is realising it is in her best interest that we all work together a common goal. This is win-win.



Anshe gets paid for

a - parcelling out SL
b - proving support and answering questions to people who come into SL

I don't believe she is making a lot of money for this.

My analysis:

She buys about 10K / month of land in the auction. You can get this from the completed auctions list.

This land she then marks up by 20 percent. You can see this by visiting in world land she bought off auction and checking out the price.

And 10K / month * .2 that is 20 percent profit. Then you have deduct the price of land tier off of her profit. Anyone can do this. She's not making a lot of money.

Do you believe otherwise? Where is your proof? At least I have provided some source of analysis.



If you withdraw all your money to the cayman islands, it's all tax free. However you'll have to move to the cayman islands to take advantage of this.

If you withdraw it to an american bank, you're going to have to report it to the IRS. The only way to avoid this is by working in cash where there is no trail. That's pretty hard on the internet.

However - neither the IRS nor the american government or really any government are particularly interested in taxing the internet at this point. It's still nascent and everyone wants to see it firm up a lot more before burdening it with taxation. Better to have a 1000 billion industry at a 5% taxation rate than a 100 billion industry at a 20% taxation rate.



Linden Labs has decided what the value of land should be. That's how they 'govern' land barons. Anshe can *NOT* price above what LL has approved. This is something I think a lot of people in this thread have a hard time grasping.

If Anshe *TRIED* to price above what LL has approved, then they'd just release more land. So, she knows better.

Revealing land sales is interesting. However, we may find that people will avoid buying (or selling land) simply because they don't want to be caught up in the parade of ignorance about a particular transaction. An illiquid market helps no-one.



Heh heh. eeewwwww, now dems fightin' words.

If you're going down this route, make sure you know what you're talking about (I have never seen hard numbers out of you, so .. do you?) . Otherwise, the karma people are going to come a knockin'

~Ulrika~
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I don't know anything about anyone's business practices (except that I did sell land to Anshe Chung the other day for what seemed a fair price), but I had to say something about this comment.
It's not unusual for non-native speakers of a language to have a persistent problem with articles (a, an, the), or gender case, particularly if their first language operates under different rules for those parts of speech.
My (RL) mother (a native Japanese speaker) has earned a college degree in the U.S. and has published a book in English, so her vocabulary's quite sophisticated. Still, after more than 40 years in the U.S. (and 60-plus years since commencing her study of English), she has problems with things that many of us native speakers take for granted.
You may have reasons to dislike Anshe Chung, but I would hope that a foreign accent would not be among them.
I've enjoyed your posts in the forums and found your Web site to be quite helpful, so this is not a personal attack. Just a comment.

Who cares if Anshe Chung is actually a middle aged guy living in Idaho. Even if everyone was just an ALT of someone else - it would not matter.

These are completely irrelvant facts which don't apply to anything.


all the guys I meet I think are women and all the women I think are guys. I find it really helps me look at things more through the lense of equality than that of gender bias.

No one is making 100 large playing this game. Is Anshe or anyone else profited a steady $5,000US a month it would only amount to $60,000 a year. I can't imagine she would be able to carry the nut she must have in fees, pay that and still generate net $8,333.33 to get her to 100 large.

She has detailed her schedule in these forums and while all the work she puts into this place is impressive, what she clears moneywise begs the question of whether it is worth it. For her it has to be. For most of us, I doubt it would be.

Kim is also correct that it is worth questioning why the focus is on "Chinese woman in Germany." If LL or the journalist felt this little PC multicultural shot would make the experience seem somehow universal they missed the mark. At best, it is an insensitive comment. I've gotten some press in my life and was never referred to as a Finnish man in America. Actaully, that sounds pretty boring -- like white bread. LOL

BTW -- Anshe is either a collection of computer geeks or a LL creation designed to keep the game flowing and stimulate commerce. Remember "Capricorn One?"

Geeze Cris, for a guy who wants the world to hold hands, hug a tree, and share a coke, that was a cheap shot at anyone who hasn't mastered the english language. How is your German these days?

I think Chris was implying that perhaps Anshe isn't chinese and is faking the 'accent'.

Maybe it should have been "a woman from china who migrated to germany is making 100 large."

Anways, well said Bruno. Methinks you're one of the few that gets it.

What I'd like to see though, is some more clear analysis. Just a lot of people throwing around a lot of generalizations right now.

Hell yeah - I have 22 years of english experience (started learning at the tender age of 3) and even taught it professionally for about a year.
But a simple word like "months" instantly defeats me. I just can't bring my tongue to move from the 'th' position to the 's' position fast enough, so it usually ends up sounding like "munts"
Also, I keep mixing up the Ys with the Is and the Zs with the Ss... like... realize vs. realise... mistery vs. mystery... but hey... nobody's perfect! And my english is sooo much better than your portuguese

Well, *that* I disagree with! Making 100K in this game isn't impossible. Hard maybe, but I can see how it could be done.

In the my disinformation is better that your disinformation (ever notice how in flames no one ever bothers to be polite..you don't so why should I?)

You said:
"Which is why i was a little upset about this six figure salary by philip (or whoever). I think it is just more dis-information. My analysis does not support those figures."

She said:
"Yes, Philip's statement is true. Except that "salary" is the wrong term. I did not cash out to buy Porsche car, but I reinvested most of my earning to help SL grow and as such still have it on high risk."


Now on the mark up, if Anshe pays US$100 for an acre, then sells it for her assesment of the market rate (L$3k for 512 metres squared) you would be right. However, as you so vitrolicly pointed out to me land pricing varies based on a number of factors and the Chung properties I have seen seem to go for more than the 3k an acre she sells land for in midge

You said:
"Oh, btw, I am very pro-Anshe."

It shows. Try not to let your bias color your temperament. Try, with great effort for yourself I am sure, to be rational and courteous. Or at least professional.

You said:
"Automatic bid level? You know absolutely nothing about this, do you? Prices are a factor of

- type of land (pg or non)
- how it is terrafromed
- distance from telehub
- how much reserved land
- a number of many other factors. "

She said (from her website):
"Lynn Lippmann IMed Anshe asking her not to bid against her on an auction. Anshe rejected this attempt of auction collusion and bid on the land at her normal Linden$ per sqm buying rate. After this she made it available on the in world land market."

You said:
"It really upsets me that people completely confuse these conversations with so much dis-information. It leads people into thinking things that are completely invalid and inaccurate."

And to me directly you said:

"Please do your research before wading into these conversations with your mis-information. Someone might take you seriously."

So whose disinformation are we to beleive here. Yours or mine. I considered what I said carefully and baed my assesment on Anshe's statements and my own auctions and expereince of SL. You seem wholly to ignore what Anshe has said in support of your candidly biased opinions in defense of Anshe. As I took great pains to point out. I was never attacking Anshe.

You said:

"Yeah, well, you know I do have a very low IQ."

Heres your sign....

IM me in world, and I'll give you a tour of land prices so you'll have some firm background before we continue this discussion.

LOL cheap shot indeed, Bruno. I am not sure where you get the hold hands, hug trees nonsense from, but oh well. My German is rusty, my Spanish and French are quite good, as I am not a native English speaker myself (though after a long time in Miami, my Spanish has been flooded with strange dialects). My point is that Anshe has always faked her accent when it suits her. It is all part of the game of PR she plays. In fact, I would be glad to repost some old ads of Anshe's where she has the use of "a" down cold, she started doing the "one" thing about the same time as the "one business girl" schtick came about. When she uses it as an affectation, it is to appear the hapless, challenged person who has overcome the odds - a sort of rags to Walmart story- and it is an act. She is quite shrewd, and quite capable - if you did a little research you would see that. The devil is in the details.

Chai,

I am also not a native English speaker - I was born in Venezuela and did not come to the US until I was 13. I am also well aware of the gender/article issue many non-native English speakers face. It was a comment on what has clearly been Anshe's pattern of using language as an affectation - her older stuff before she rose to her current heights on the "business girl" persona somehow managed to use them just fine. When Anshe wants to appear more of a sympathetic figure, she whips it out - it's been an amusing pattern to watch over time. Thank you for the comments though - ordinarily I would certainly never speak of it, knowing how much people struggle with it - that is why I find what she does all the more insulting.

Geeezzzee Bruno I taught dat was me?

Here's a little Latin for you - non-sequitur. I am not posting in German, so my mad German skillz are irrelevant. Refer to my previous post as to why I said what I said about Ms. Chung. Tschus!

Refer to Merwan's post for my response to the rest of what you said.

I can't believe you're calling me out in a forum!
That's like climbing into a bear's den and poking it with a stick.

Well, you asked for it.


An ad hominem attack has the following form:

1. A makes claim B;
   
2. there is something objectionable about A,
   
3. therefore claim B is false.
   

For this to be an ad hominem attack, I would have to say something like:

1. Anshe says we should not tax land sales;
   
2. Anshe is evil,
   
3. therefore we should tax land sales.
   

My statement was not an adhominem attack. In fact they were three independent opinions, of which none personally attack her. In short:

1. I appreciate her positivity
   
2. Her post is a feel-good whitewash
   
3. She took advantage of a poorly regulated system
   

How do you know what she is realizing? I believe you are ascribing the fruits of your speculation to someone with which you have little contact.

Further, it is a false statement to say the current situation is a "win-win". It is not a win for me:

1. to see a massive disparity in income distribution among members of SL
   
2. to see people take advantage of a regressive tier system
   
3. to see people take advantage of a broken auction system that releases large tracts of land below market value
   
4. to have economic statistics of for-profit business hidden from members of SL and RL governments
   
5. to have those who are benefiting from that system asking for a cease fire so they can maintain their status quo
   

The problem with your reply is that my statement has nothing to do with Anshe's business practices. You're so engrossed in creating a hypothetical analysis to excuse your friend, that you didn't address my statement. My statement is a critique of the existing system and LL's failure to regulate it.

So your point is, that tax evasion is easy on the internet because the transfer of assets doesn't leave a trail? Are you advocating tax evasion?

There are two mistakes here. The ban on "internet tax" in the U.S. refers only to sales tax not to capital gains tax (1) and the IRS is very interested in capital gains earned using the internet (2).

Additionally, the diminishing returns of higher taxation rates has nothing to do with the ban on sales tax on goods sold over the internet. This relation is well understood and is described with the Laffer curve.

The regulation of the amount of land for sale has nothing to do with governing land barons rather it has to do with keeping the cost of land stable.

When I talk of reforming the land auction system, I would like LL to stop releasing large tract of lands for auction and to sell it all as 512 m^2 lots. Large lots, due to their high price tend to receive a lower bids per square meter than smaller lots for which there is much competition. This allows those with large SL and RL purchasing power to buy large lots at below-market prices, subdivide the land, and then resell it at the real market value at a markup. The land baron is in essence receiving a subsidy from LL.

Why do I call it a subsidy? When you think about it, LL is not acting according to principles of a free market. If you were an entity with large tracts of land, would you sell large tracts of land for L$10 per m^2 or subdivide it and sell it for $L15 per m^2? Naturally you would subdivide it to maximize your profit (think about it -- it's exactly what the land barons do).

This needs to be fixed. It gives free money to those who need it the least -- those who already have large SL and RL purchasing power. We need to get the land-baron monkey off the backs of those who can least afford their overhead -- the small land owner.


They are not fighting words. They are the words of someone who suspects (but has no evidence) that unethical and exploitative behavior is spilling from SL to RL. In the U.S., failure to report large sums of capital gains can send you to prison.

What I wonder, is why you have cast yourself in the role of an ingratiating sycophant. You seem to dish out ungrounded speculation in defense of someone you don't even know, at the expense of critically analyzing the system and its effect on all of us.


Bear deposits half eaten corpse at cave entrance and takes nap.

~Ulrika~

Well, I think we need to do some careful analysis before we continue this discussion.

I also think you'll probably find that you have more in common with Anshe than you do with most people.

In truth, I think we all have a lot in common here in SecondLife. So, sometimes it seems strangely silly that we're all at odds with one another.

But, misunderstandings, mis-information, and a lack of information can cause that sort of behaviour.

BTW, your comments in Instant Message are what caused me to post this message in the first place. I believe that Anshe certainly didn't want me to bring this up. Neither probably did Philip. The article in Red Herring was meant for the community outside of SL.

However, the fact is we need to embrace the truth. The sooner and better we do, the sooner and better that SL will flourish in the way that it should.

And BTW, everything *is* going for market value. The market is not going to pay more than the land is worth.

If Anshe or LL tried to sell virtual land for more than it's worth, then people would simply go play everquest.

What makes you think that land prices didn't drive players out of SL to other environments?

Actually, "what everything is going for" is the very definition of market value. Another kind of value is intrinsic value -- i.e., the value that is inherent to something. I think that in SL, the intrinsic value of land is zero.

The real question is whether anyone manipulates the market, thus inflating or depressing prices by clandestine means. Such as cornering, dumping, shilling etc.

Buster

Nice to see that someone else recognizes that little racist slur to (or a least somewhat chauvinistic slur). Like in 'this chinese woman has to have her finger in' ...

I really wonder if Blaze and Christiano would call some fellow countryman 'that us-boy' ... and if they would see any neccassity in using the country someone was born in as an important characteristic? That the press does use such slightly chauvinistic descriptions a lot is no excuse, IMHO.

Did anyone notice what the focus of the original article was at all? It was definitely not about Anshe.

BTW: It makes me sad to see so much open personal hatred in the forums!

Chris,

The question is - how many people come to second life because they think that land has inherent value? How many people read the Red Herring article and think "oh man I could make 100K in SL as well!"

I guess the question is - should there always be land available that is free? It's a good argument and I think I could easily be convinced.

What LL needs to do is slowly (and I mean slowly) migrate the price of land in SL until there is land available at a very very cheap cost. In some ways, I always felt that this is what they meant to do with the snow land. However, I'd like to see green colored land available at next to nothing.

Land Barons will still exist - that is, people who recognize that certain land has a certain value and if they buy it below the value they can sell it at a profit, but people will always have an alternative to buy free or nearly free land.

Buster, the intrinsic value is the same value as any hosting service. If you're trying to say LL isn't a necessity, well yes, you're right. Only food and shelter and I guess security of some kind are really necessities.

"Yank" is usual .

just a little sidenote: has anyone noticed, who is NOT contributing anything to this sometimes disgusting schoolyard fight? not even, when tasteless insults and incriminating remarks about "das finanzamt" (german IRS) are made?

maybe a question of style

An example of "intrinsic value" is the value of the gold in a gold necklace. It is worth more as a necklace, but only to someone who likes necklaces. But anything made out of gold cannot be worth less than the gold in it -- that's the intrinsic value.

Any "ownership rights" in SL land are maintained by paying subscription fees to Linden. It is only simulated property and simulated ownership, not real property and real ownership. It has no value at all unless someone is willing to buy it from you. In fact, "Ownership" of SL land means you have the obligation to pay monthly fees to Linden in return for using a share of their equipment. ("Using" being the operative word. You "own" nothing.)

I keep having to tell myself: It looks like land, they call it land, but it isn't land.

Buster