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Why Am I suspended? |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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12-01-2004 13:33
Again, while discussion of any topic related to Second Life is highly cultivated and encouraged, outright appeals to revoke suspensions or other disciplinary actions are not allowed. Maybe this should be added to the forum guidelines.. Rules are good, but having to dig through tonnes of postings to find them is a bit harsh. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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12-01-2004 13:36
Without the offensive language, why is it a poor response? I think everything in these forums should be taken with a grain of salt. Not just public appeals of innocence! the linguistic pragmatics of making the jeska's statement usual creates the implicature "the people appealing are liars." it is a shitty response. _____________________
AIDS IS NOT OVER. people are still getting aids. people are still living with aids. people are still dying from aids. please help me raise money for hiv/aids services and research. you can help by making a donation here: http://www.aidslifecycle.org/1409 .
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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12-01-2004 13:36
Further, anyone swayed by public protestations of innocence should take these civic appeals with a grain of salt -- you may not be getting the whole story. That is an absolutely disguting inference to make in public as a Linden when your company's own policies say that discussing private information in public is wrong. Are we to assume that you are lying with 'you may not be getting the whole story' (not a good conclusion to for us to reach about you) or are we to assume that you are being truthful and are intimating that there is another side to this story, in which case you are publicly influencing the opinion of a member of the community by the rest of the community on a large scale (oh yeah, another no no by your own rules). Either way you've crossed a line there with the response. You're not the first Linden to do this either. Another one directed an equally as dismissive post against me. Never got an apology but funny, the post was removed, not long after. Why then, does this one stay? _____________________
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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12-01-2004 13:37
Oh, we are all liars in one way or another.
Maybe not willful liars, but we all color our observations with our particular perspective or lack of, as the case may be. Moopf, considering the absolutely abhorent task it must be to have to moderate these forums, perhaps we should all go just a tad easier on Jeska.. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Paolo Portocarrero
Puritanical Hedonist
Join date: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 2,393
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12-01-2004 13:39
Ultimately, like Wal-Mart, McDonalds or Amazon, SL is running a business that depends upon the ongoing good will of its customer base. I don't expect SL to take the Nordstrom approach to customer service by any means, but at some appropriate level, it has to treat players like paying customers, not as wards of the "state." As inherently difficult as it is to police a ToS, I think LL would be wise to err in favor of the customer whenever possible (e.g., innocent until proven guilty).
My unsolicited two cents... _____________________
Facades by Paolo - Photo-Realistic Skins for Doods
> Flagship store, Santo Paolo's Lofts & Boutiques > SLBoutique |
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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12-01-2004 13:49
Oh, we are all liars in one way or another. Maybe not willful liars, but we all color our observations with our particular perspective or lack of, as the case may be. Moopf, considering the absolutely abhorent task it must be to have to moderate these forums, perhaps we should all go just a tad easier on Jeska.. I can put up with the stock "company policy" answers, I can accept them even if I don't like them. But Jeska's response infers that the person who started this thread is a liar and that is where Jeska has fallen foul of Second Life's own rules and regulations that govern the community, confidentiality and privacy. _____________________
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Beryl Greenacre
Big Scaredy-Baby
Join date: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,312
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12-01-2004 14:00
Give Jeska a break; she's not at liberty to tell us exactly why anyone was suspended, and she probably feels she has to say *something* about this issue on forums because people start frothing at the mouth over some of these posts. I'm betting that in cases where players are suspended, chat history is checked before they actually issue a punishment, so the Lindens know exactly what happened, and, honestly... we don't. I think the area where the Lindens fall short is in not telling players exactly why they have been suspended. And they have been pretty clear in their insistence on not changing this, mainly to protect the identity of the complainant.
I have had an occasion where a Linden questioned something I said on forums; after I called her on it, she looked into the issue further by checking chat history and acknowledged I was telling the truth. There isn't some awful Linden conspiracy to suspend people for no reason; there is simply an imperfect and closed justice system, necessitated mainly by the fact that LL is a private company which needs to cover its ass. The one thing that does bother me is how many, many threads have been purged from forums. I can't point people to the incident I mentioned above in which I was involved because it's mysteriously vanished from forums, along with a lot of other threads, many dealing with controversial topics. This, in truth, bothers me more than people protesting suspensions, at this point. |
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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12-01-2004 14:06
from: /120/26/28692/1.html Nice try..now show me where it states any of this in the posting guidlines or TOS |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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12-01-2004 14:09
Nice try..now show me where it states any of this in the posting guidlines or TOS I agree.. arbitrarily coming up with new rules (this is a new rule, not just an obvious interpretation) on the fly is only going to make matters worse, not better. _____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :
"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches." |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-01-2004 17:47
I won't argue that LL needs some serious policy revision in some areas. Better communication with their content creators/users being at the top of that list. I happen to think not telling people why they've been suspended is complete bullshit.
However, even having some beefs with LL policies doesn't make me feel the need to jump down their throats every single time they open their mouths, and that does not make me an apologist. There was nothing condescending in Jeska's post. She's absolutely right that we don't know the whole story about why anyone has been banned or suspended, regardless of how innocent they may appear here, to the ignorant masses. If someone acts like a complete fucktard in world and gets banned for it, then comes on the forums whining that they don't know why they got banned, everyone seems to jump on the Lindens and assume innocence of the poster. That's either incredibly naive, or it's just another opportunity to stick it to 'the man.' Call the Lindens on something when they deserve it, but there's no need to read condescension and nefarious actions into something when they simply aren't there. That's being hyper-critical at best, and a conspiracy theorist at worst. It ain't about "the man". It's about the fact that LL has pulled a monumental shell game which runs something like: 1. Produce a system that allows people to build v-Things 2. Sell subscriptions to the system 3. Allow people's native will to create to fill the world with content 4. Treat your paying content developers worse than customers, worse than employees 5. Profit Their policies and actions are capricious and arbitrary; they conduct themselves with an imperial air. Their whole business model depends on goodwill of the customer base and they seem to view them contemptuously - they provide no information, miniscule support, and decline to answer legitimate questions. Why am I still here? Well, I bought a lifer account in my first week and I still find SL diverting at times. Can I consistently believe that a) it is a good experience for me and b) that they are doing many things dreadfully wrong? Yup. Do they have to provide me a forum to voice this dissent? Nope. But they do, and I do. There are certainly enough LL apologists to go around; hell, I used to be one myself. But as my time here continued, their customer relations have gotten incrementally worse and much of what was stated as intended direction a year ago has failed to obtain. Performance has become atrocious, customer relations are at a nadir and show no sign of improving. If people can complain that their favorite local band has "sold out", then what is so pernicious about my commentary? I used to offer criticism more constructively but this is slightly easier. -Malachi "reviled-by-9-out-of-10-forum-posters" Petunia _____________________
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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12-01-2004 19:50
Nice try..now show me where it states any of this in the posting guidlines or TOS oh... hmm... well Jeska said so? Doesn't that count? She's a Linden, and I figured that what she said represents how the Lindens interpret the TOS. Again, while discussion of any topic related to Second Life is highly cultivated and encouraged, outright appeals to revoke suspensions or other disciplinary actions are not allowed. _____________________
AIDS IS NOT OVER. people are still getting aids. people are still living with aids. people are still dying from aids. please help me raise money for hiv/aids services and research. you can help by making a donation here: http://www.aidslifecycle.org/1409 .
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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12-02-2004 06:04
I am so tired of LL using the excuse that they are 'protecting the complaintent' when they won't tell you what you did. US Law gives us the right to face our accusers in court, so why should LL be any different. If a situation arizes where someone retaliates, that should be grounds for permanent banning.
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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12-02-2004 06:10
I am so tired of LL using the excuse that they are 'protecting the complaintent' when they won't tell you what you did. US Law gives us the right to face our accusers in court, so why should LL be any different. If a situation arizes where someone retaliates, that should be grounds for permanent banning. What the lil wise n poopy cherub said _____________________
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