the general from the specific

the problem i have with this statement is that it deters talking about specific exemplars of general occurances.

talking about general things is that they are widely significance over a large class, but only have actual meaning when talking about specifics.

it is the very conversation over specific events that allows a general conclusions to be drawn, and social (and possibly corporate) norms to be considered.

Per our forum guidelines:

"Every effort will be made to take into consideration the general feeling of the forum, but Linden Lab has the final say. If Linden Lab takes disciplinary action against you that you believe was unfair or inconsistent, you may appeal the decision. An appeal is an e-mail or private message explaining your situation and why you believe you should not have been disciplined. Appeals must be sent via e-mail only to [email]abuse@secondlife.com[/email], and must follow this appeals procedure, or they will not be considered. You may submit only one appeal per disciplinary action."


Discussion of generalities is allowable by this guideline, but specific appeals against disciplinary action, is not. Appeals must be sent directly to the abuse team who have the capability and power to consider them. The alternative is that the forums could be flooded with every suspended user attempted to appeal their cause.

no, the alternative is that people would creat societal norms and expectation wrt to people who get suspended and linden policies to that end. at some point the sl residents in the forums will decide what is acceptable to them and what is not. whiners, per the social norm, will be laughed off.

your reasoning is flawed, and dangerous in that it directs the forums towards "do not question the lindens." if that is where the forums and where sl are going, then conditions may become intolerable for me.

it is ll's right (and individuals' rights) to be be annoyed at being questioned.
and it is the right of ll to stiffle conversation.
however, exercising that second right is worthy of serious consideration.

What does LL consider the difference between an appeal and a discussion? I am under the impression that the concept of player-concentric forums inherently are geared towards community discourse. Does LL consider the discussion of a disciplinary action with other players an appeal? Wouldn't the basis of an appeal include something to the affect of "Dear LL... explanation of situation... plea for resolve"?

Again, to bring in the forum guidelines, which guide both the community as a whole within the forums and our moderation of the forums, "Linden Lab provides these forums in the belief that promoting discourse and the sharing of ideas leads to a stronger, better informed community. We allow full freedom of expression, within the limits of the Community Standards. Generally we will not delete whole threads, except in special circumstances noted in the guidelines. Any editing or locking of threads will be accompanied by an explanation, to make our moderation decisions as transparent to Residents as possible."

Again, while discussion of any topic related to Second Life is highly cultivated and encouraged, outright appeals to revoke suspensions or other disciplinary actions are not allowed.

Also, per our guidelines, threads which spiral into aggressive personal attacks will be edited/closed and any posts/threads containing hate speech or revelation of other people’s real life information are prohibited. These threads may also be locked/closed with explanation if those involved have been asked to stop, the attacks don’t stop, or there’s no obvious constructive discussion going on.

*feels sorry for Jeska*

We are still allowed to hold protests in world though correct? Meaning we could hold a rally to support appeals to revoke suspensions, etc.? Not that you all would necessarily come to them, hehe.. But just confirming that this action is still safe in world.

Thanks for taking the time to address this, Jeska. However, I am still iffy on the concept of an "appeal" in this environment. Unless a poster outright addresses an appeal specifically to LL within the forums, I don't see the relevance. Other players to not have the ability to revoke suspensions or other disciplinary actions, therefore a discussion of an event isn't truly an appeal of the nature you describe.

I bring this up because I do believe in the concept of protest through informative discourse. If the line is blurry as to what is considered an "appeal to LL" as opposed to an "appeal to the community", I personally believe that there can not be any true postive change in larger community trends without the specifics of negative instances being explored.

Officer Casanova, can I please have my license and registration back?

As I stated in another thread. I have no faith in the appeals process. At the time I received my suspension I sent an appeal and never even received a reply. I expressed myself very clearly and I did not even get a response back. I sent an email asking why I didnt get a reply and it was also dismissed. To this day I have not received a response to my suspension appeal. In fact I still don’t even know what I did to warrant the suspension. So if you going to ask people to use the appeals process then you might want to ensure you take the time to read the appeal and respond!

Stating that you need to appeal in a email is basically telling you to shut up because we've made our decision. And they claim to want self governance? I guess the forum snitches will win out everytime.

Yes is emailing an appeal is a joke. It obviously takes more than 3 days to reply to the emailed appeal. So the whole process is silly if you have only been suspended for 3 days.

for a small fee

Go stand in the corner.

I knew you were on the take

> Discussion of generalities is allowable by this guideline, but specific appeals against disciplinary action, is not.

Woah.

Exactly. Not to pick apart words, but why does that sentence shift from "discussion" to "appeals"? What about the discussion of specifics? That's it, someone page Orwell.

I just wonder if a suspension turns out to be wrong, if linden lab finds out during the appeal process that the person in question did not violate the tos or the cs, will they be refunded their monies for the days they could not use SL?

stiffling conversation is a bad policy.

it's curious how it went from being discouraged to banned.

This "issue" seems clear enough to me. If you want to discuss diciplinary actions, do not talk about specific individuals. Speak in the abstract. Otherwise, even the least cynical of us are going to be forced to dismiss the thread as sour grapes and oh so much noise. If you are serious about your concern of the way the system works, you'd do well to drop the tones of righteous indignation, stop trying to appeal for public support or outrage, and certainly stop posting calls to action and social-engineering polls.

Linden makes an informed call on every diciplinary action. What prior warnings they've given, what evidence they base their judgements on, and the specifics of the incidents that precipitate each diciplinary action are all known best to the Lindens. You can be darn well sure they don't ban or permaban without good reason. Specific bans should not be appealed (directly or indirectly) in public. It's a waste of the public's time.

the evidence on hand doesn't bear this out. there seems to be more caprice than information.

from an us point of view, this method of meting out justice stinks:
1) you don't know about the charges until after the judgment..
2) you don't know who your accusers are.
3) you can't make a statement in your defense until after the judgment is made.
4) and the process takes so long that the punishment concludes before any remedy or appeal can be made.
5) and then you can't even kvetch about it public (lest it be called an appeal).

feh.

Uh, yeah, I'm not sure what you're saying, but the only evidence on the forums is anecdotal and doesn't really count for much. That's the problem; by the time it gets here to the forums, it is a he said, she said sort of cat fight. Basically, a waste of our time.

I don't believe in Ace's thread she named anyone.

emphasis added. depends who you trust, and why.

Uh... would that be Ace's "I've been suspended, waaaah!" thread? Uh. Ace is someone, so that post perfectly illustrates my point.


Indeed! Hmm. Should I trust Linden or a banned user? Hmmm! I wonder! Does Linden have anything to gain by banning a user? Does a banned user have anything to gain by attempting to win in the court of an uninformed public's opinion?

Folks are banned because they violate the ToS. A ToS violation is still a violation, even if it makes its previously wronged perpetrator feel vindicated. I sympathize, but there's no such thing as "extenuating circumstances" when it comes to the ToS.