Request of Phillip Linden

While I think I have made my feelings about all of this pretty clear, I will say that I would definitely like to see LL be able to work out some amicable agreement with GOM if it is still possible, whatever that means. GOM has been an important aspect of SL, and I would like to see them rewarded for their efforts.

Okay then Philip is the primary decision maker and should just admit that he's bolting the third party exchanges to the floor because the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few. Noone can argue that having a built in money exchange feature will be anything but brilliant for the blingy homemaker residents. The only good arugument is that the feature should be built as an API so that SL didn't actually have to charge additional monies to clear the fees.


This was their mistake. Saying API to Philip is like hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer then expecting him to meet with you again. We have no APIs in SL and we never will. They rank right up there with open communication protocols and Havok2 which whenever mentioned, trigger diatribic "what you wanna hear" nonesense that has steadily eroded the trust and loyalty of the SL user base.

It's ironic that Philip sites the difficulty of having to register and transfer money to third parties as the primary reason for developing a feature. Then instead of developing an API that numerous businesses could use to interface with SL as a "monitized platform," he makes exactly the same mistake in reverse by requiring third parties' clients to register with, and transfer money (CC info) to LL in order to do business with the company.

But what are we gonna do, give up and support the competition because they're actually producing a platform?

No Chip. Not only did GOM put the blood and sweat into the design and creation of the first in-game money conversion program; they also assisted the Lindens in pointing out where their existing software was weak. That weakness helped GOM to become hacked and lose some monies on the deal. What GOM did in good faith with the Linden's was simply to point out a more secure way of doing business to insure that no future hacks would continue.

They were a first in the gaming money business to do this with full cooperation and support from LL. Unlike IGE, if you remember, Phillip FULLY supported GOM right here on these forums. Phillip also likes an open market, one that is NOT controlled by the game creators, but one that is controlled by the end-users.

GOM has the right to speak up on this matter. If this was your creation, you would feel the same exact way. What's unprofessional is not supporting the grass-roots business that was created based upon a NEED that LL in it's wisdom failed to implement from the very beginning. Once it's been created by end-users, who were a part of the community by purchasing and holding land for those who needed to sell, by participating and not charging fees for any charitible event who collected Linden's to transfer to USD -- in other words, they were MORE than just a click-face on a website.

Then again, you just stated in an earlier thread that your primary business may go bust when they start to finally create better basic avatars. All your baking, shading... all to waste. I'm just hoping that you haven't shared any of your baking secrets. Then again, I'm hoping that you did. GOM has been an important part of this community since the end of beta. What's being done is simple theft. Based upon a previous working experience and trust with the developers of SL in the past. Knowing that GOM has had problems BEFORE with LL's code, and with the recent hacks and still *STILL* existing problems with simple permission on objects and textures that has been occuring since BETA three years ago -- I trust GOM's secure programming a whole lot more than I would LL for any type of monetary transaction. That's a sad statement, but it's based on historical facts of flaws and lack of security integrated into the software by LL.

For any of you with the hardcore "business" attitude of "GOM should have known better..." your turn will come as things change and grow within SL. So while you pay to play, while you pay to create content for SL; I will sit back and watch as you're hacked and/or your ideas are stolen and implemented into the system.

SL is losing more than just a business idea/creation. Some of you are just too damn blind and egotistical yourselves to see it. And evidently, you don't care how it's being done. I hope to hell that both Jamie and Tom have detailed notes of their meetings, detailed notes of their code; and I sure as hell hope they find a damn good lawyer who's willing to take on a patent for this. If LL didn't think they were doing anything such as, oh, COPYING existing code... then why would they even offer to purchase the company to obtain the code? That business decision by LL wasn't for "good faith."

Your so-called Bozo buttons don't exist in any other gaming system to date. What they created was unique and specifically created for SL.

Then again, I guess Bozo's would know that.

Lynn, I can understand your sentiments, and GOM's completely, but people simply aren't looking at this rationally. If LL had to limit the kinds of decisions they can make and features they can implement to avoid any devaluation of a niche currently filled by a resident business, that's simply too much to ask of them. GOM consulted with LL as one business to another. If they ended up sharing information they now wish they hadn't and don't feel that they were adequately compensated, the time to work that out was before entering into the relationship, not when severing it because it didn't turn out as they had hoped.

They are certainly entitled to express their opinion of LL's decision, and their disappointment is understandable, but them's the breaks. I don't believe they were taken advantage of. Just by consulting on these decisions they gained an advantage over other exchanges. They then used that information to reveal details of LL's under development exchange to the general public, most likely before LL was ready to go public with it.

It's fine not to be happy with the way things turned out, but I don't think very highly of they way they've chosen to deal with it. If you apply for a job and don't get hired should you then start talking smack about the company that was considering you? I don't think it's appropriate, nor warranted.



I appreciate the sentiment there, but take a step back and think about what you're saying for a minute. Should LL have to avoid making changes to their service if it will devalue a resident business? Should they have to implement new features by hiring or compensating any resident businesses that were filling the niche the new feautre is designed to fill? That's simply asking too much. No company does business under those kinds of restrictions. If LL asks one of us to consult on something then we have to enter in to that as businesses or independant contractors, business to business, not business to loyal subject or business to dependant serf. It's understandable that we all want LL to treat us as somehow special because we inhabit their world, but they're a business. To expect them to make decisions based on any other criteria beyond the best balance of benefit to themselves and their product is to expect too much.



Hardly to waste, or do the thousands of dollars I've made off them til now not count for anything? I'd change my business to suit the new marketplace, and make use of the reputation I've built up with my previous products to jumpstart my new direction... just as GOM can do. They've been the defacto standard SL currency exchange since they started, have been written about in many press articles, have received heaps of praise, gained a great reputation with the SL populace, and made whatever they've made in fees. Is that all suddenly not worth anything because the future looks different all of a sudden?



If I'm asked to share knowledge that I want to keep proprietary, I don't share it, except under pre-negotiated terms.



Yes, they have. And we should be heaping praise upon them... not appointing them a position where they define what and how new features LL can or can't implement.



No, it's not theft. It's a business consulting with another business while researching options to fill what they saw as a need, and then after consulting deciding to do it in-house. Nothing more. Nothing less. Calling it theft is just emotional hyperbole.

Please explain the ground breaking SL exclusive part. There is none. They made ATMs to work in SL, because that was easier for them, although not really necessary. Since they are only 2 people working on this only in the evenings they can't do in world pickups like IGE, so they had to have an "automated" system, which isnt automated since they do 1/2 the stuff by hand in the evenings.


The website and interface existed before they dealt in SL.


It is not some earthshattering SL invention. If you want to believe that you can, I disagree. And I will keep my Bozo Buttons with me in Chicago. GO CUBS!

SL isn't my business, I have a real life for that. SL is entertainment, just like WoW. Your "I'll get you my pretty and your fake little SL Store too!" attitude isnt going to work on everyone, some people don't give damn.

Destroying any credibility they had left.

Lynn, you are fighting a losing battle with someone who already has a manifest, dogmatic self-interest in favor of making *his* SL more lucrative.

I'm reminded of that aphorism that contains "...Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist....". And yes, that passage referred to the Nazis, but I am explicitly NOT. My point is that at present your interlocutor doesn't feel his work has been misappropriated and finds this change to be a pleasing potential windfall. You've spilled a lot of well considered words trying to persuade a self-proclaimed non-dogmatist that he's being dogmatic; more words likely won't help.

This was a distasteful analogy with bunch of mombo jumbo cliche words. Why can't you make a point without specifically attacking an individual?

I didn't understand a thing you said, Malachi.

coco

That must be why I'll most likely continue to use GOM unless they take their ball and go home. I think GOM is overreacting and so are you... I must be a Nazi *laugh* Try being rational perhaps?

Ummm maybe you'll continue to use GOM because LL ain't gonna give you US$ for your L$? Maybe you missed the part where I tried to pre-empt anyone invoking Godwin's law in regard to the "first they came for" line?

Maybe you have no actual response to the fact that you have a decided stake in a) making it slightly easier for newbies to blow US$8+ on your skins b) have a decided interest in kissing LL's posterior cause they've allowed you to make an income and are hoping like hell that they don't usurp that c) are happy to use the service GOM invented, and d) find this particular move by LL doesn't impinge on you, so you thought ridicule would serve as a response?

As I said: it is fine to be biased toward your own interests, but it is disingenuous to pretend that you aren't. Remember, Chip, most of the rest of us don't get features added to the game to protect our works; I'd probably be brown-nosing too if I were in your shoes.

I don't think he really needs to respond to a nasty post like yours. You can dismiss his opinion by calling it based on self-interest, but that doesn't alter the fact that he made a rational post with rational arguments. He's not the one that seems to have let emotion overcome analysis.

As I posted in the land and economy thread, there are two issues at stake here. One is how professionally or ethically LL dealt with GOM. And that I think is way too muddy and emotional right now for anyone who wasn't at those meetings to pass judgement on.

The second is whether LL has the right to enhance the functionality of the SL client, simply because someone else in the past created some functionality to workaround SL limitations. Of course they have this right. If they deny themselves this right, then they might as well put up the white flag and hand the market to a competitor now. They aren't going against their promise that in-world content would be created by users.

There are important decisions at stake that will effect the success of SL at a macro scale, and LL cannot let a special interest group(s) define their actions -- whether it be currency exchange, collaborative rights/tools, contract/agreements or teleporting/telehub land (and I say that as someone who OWNS telehub land).

I like the GOM service and think the team did a great job putting it into place. I'd like to continue being a customer and hope that GOM serves as an excellent aggregator of L$ sellers. But creating a seamless way for all SL users to buy currency was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

what is so bad about buyers and sellers reaching other quickly and efficiently as possible? why should gom's 3% skim off the top be preserved if LL can provide a more direct abd better solution?

I feel I need to correct here. The first L$ trade we have on record was December 5 2003. At $0.75 per 250 L$ to be exact. It was order number 83. (Order 100171 is available to be filled now.)

Second, Zeppi Schlegel (me) was a participating community member before you showed up. I had several substantial personal builds in Clara for quite some time, and later builds in Miru and Shinda. I ran events demonstrating the new ATMs when they were built, and even went so far as to describe the technology behind them. I worked with Bhodi Silverman and VERTU and a variety of other charitable organizations. In fact to date, GOM has assisted in raising over $25,000 USD for charities including the recent ACS campaign, American Red Cross, Tsunami relief, Toys for Tots, Heifer International and the EFF. I am proud of what I have accomplished in Second Life.

You don't need to be, but please be careful claiming things that are wrong.

J

Yeah, GOM has gone to the wall for SL. We all recognize and aspire to have their kind of credibility in this community.

What I'd like to know is if Philip is actually going to let just anyone sell L$, or just IGE/GOM/AC.

He's kind of waffling on that.

Jamie,


Thank you for correcting me, a correct history is always best. Also, while you may think you know how long I have been in SL, please don’t let the join date on this account fool you. While that information is useful, it doesn’t really help your case at all.


GOM has acted unprofessional repeatedly, and this last forum based temper tantrum destroyed whatever credibility and sympathy you had left me with and probably some other people. You and your partner have had temper tantrums in these forums, There forums, your forums and any other place on the internet you thought you could get a voice. You have not acted like business professionals in regards to handling GOM. There have been numerous requests for GOM ATMs (which benefit you and you should be jumping on any free real estate and presence in SL that is available), which have not been filled or delayed for weeks. Payment Processing on GOM is delayed until the evenings when the owners get off of work. GOM revealing Second Life development information to the public and Second Life competitors before Second Life released the information themselves. The last grievance is the most serious, because it shows a complete lack of business ethics and knowledge (and the “they are screwing us so we will screw them first defense" doesn’t work here).

You may be trying your case in the hearts of public, but you shot off your nose to spite your face. GOM and the tactics and lack of professionalism by its owners is dangerous for the economy of Second Life. The economy of SL should not rely on two guys who can only work on their company after hours. The original concept of GOM was amazing, the ability to trade game currency and see how they were trading against other game currencies was great. When GOM decided to drop all the other game currencies, the greatest thing about GOM left and from a business stand point long term, it was probably a bad move, the lack of diversity and putting your eggs all in one basket has proven to probably not be the best move long term.

I wish you the best of luck in the future.

Well said, eboni .. very well said!

Dead on analysis.. Especially the last bit about dropping the other currencies. In some ways, you're making the community pay because a) you were too silly to take stock options and b) you put all your eggs in one basket c) you don't have the wherewithal to work on GOM full time.

However, we can not forget that Philip did ask GOM to participate in SL.

While agreed, the credibility of GOM is ruined .. Philip is doing a pretty bad job on his own as well.

All of us have to be afraid of working on anything that we think might be profitable or important enough for Philip to want to take over. He has put a chill over a lot of development that will probably not occur in the future.

I do not use Gom because they use Paypal. I had an old account with paypal that went inactive and then was closed down by Paypal. However when I wanted to open a new account up, they refused to release my bank account with the old long dead paypal account. They told me to go to another bank and open a second account.

No way.

IGE all the way.

Now if GOM would start accepting direct credit card Billing I will re-consider....

How can you say such a thing as the credibility of GOM is ruined!

Not to mention calling them silly. I would rely on GOM (if I ever needed by buy or sell money) with every bit as much confidence as I had in them before this. Credibility ruined, my foot.

coco

P.S. Temper tantrum? I thought their writing was quite reasoned. They felt that after quite some time they needed to go public with it. That doesn't mean they had a "temper tantrum," for heaven's sake.

P.S. You talk about two guys on their spare time like it's a bad thing. Anybody that could run anything as well as they did with just two guys in their spare time is clearly VERY good at what they do.

Eboni's business analysis was very detailed. It deserves re-reading. GOM made a series of strategical mistakes and is trying to make up for it by going to the community. If they had just been smarter earlier on, this wouldn't be as drawn out as it is.

However, to give Philip a free pass in this is to ignore the reaction and sentiment of the posters in these forums. Which is not very wise.

Why didn't LL do this from the get go?

Yes, temper tantrum. The tone of the posting is hysterical and unprofessional for a business, and above all unethical. They have a long history of making these sorts of posts (here and in There) including revealing avatar names of people they claim have defrauded them in various games (The SWG incident), again unprofessional. If they posted this information after LL revealed their plans, then it would be a less grievous offense but the fact that they revealed this information ahead of time is one of the most unprofessional things I have seen in a long time.

Thank you. That was all exactly what I was trying to get at but you said it far more clearly than I did.