Request of Phillip Linden

Weedy, I really do not see it this way. Then again, I know as little about the matter as you do. If Phillips statements are true, and they are not going to be making profit from this, just adding a convienence to SL, it makes total sense to me.

LL needs content creators to make SL an appealing place to the masses. If L$ continues to drop in value, it means less motivation to the content creators to work as hard. I am not saying ALL content creators are in it just for the money, but I strongly beleive that we would see a lot less content if people were not able to make money. If you figured out what the average content creator makes per hour of wrok I would be willing to bet the average is about $2 - $5 an hour. Way below US mininum wage. LL wants more talented content creators to make more cool stuff to keep the masses interested. With using "Make Money In SL" as a marketing strategy, they need to make the value of L$ increase.

If somehow LL can make it so the average content creator was making a lot more money, we would see a lot more talented content creators. I have a friend I brought into SL, he is a professional graphics designer and programer, he has worked for some for the biggest game/software companies in the world. His speciality is 3D art. I call him a "tech messiah". I am confident he could make some unbelievable stuff in SL, but he doesnt do much. Why? He says it is not worth his time. He would rather just use SL as a social engine and have fun because $2-$5 an hour is really just not worth his time as a part time job.

In theory, making L$ easier to buy can add extra juice to the in world economy. That is something that is in SL's best interest. It goes along with one of thier main marketing strategies. So if Phillip is saying that LL is not planning on making profit from this, I would see how it still benefits the company.

I'm with Weedy on this. My initial reaction was to say "WTF, <3 GOM, don't screw with them." As the drama unfolded, though, I grew more and more divided. At this point I really don't know what to think, myself.

I, too, need more info before I can draw conclusions worth talking about.

And until then, let's get back to the mud wrestling.

Do you support Linden Labs? Vote!

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Disclaimer: I support everything Linden Labs and King Philip does.

Merwan, I have my own request of you:

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My feedeater just said Philip Linden updated his blog with a new post about this currency!

http://secondlife.blogs.com/philip/2005/08/jumping_the_sha.html

Mud slinging, not wrestling. Mud wrestling it hot, this is just tedious.

These discussion have been opened by those who have no authority to request ANYTHING and have based their request on false and misplaced (and also self-appointed) celebrity status.

Long Live LL

Vote!
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Waits a second ..... breathes .... 1... 2... 3... ahhh fuggit

But you also decided to bash the very company that gives you your income from SL. The very same men who time after time have gone to bat for the endusers in SL. Your and Ebony's comments come out as "fuck 'em, they got what they deserved, those whiny-assed bunch of wanna-be's!"

That little company worked damn hard to help make SL what it is today -- and neither of you can disagree on that. So why shouldn't two very good hobbiests be given a chance? What if LL offered up default clothing designs, but decided to skip over those who already have an investment in SL? You would be singing a different tune completely.

But before bashing the hand that feeds your income, step back and think of what exactly GOM has done for SL. Maybe they are hobbiests -- but that does not give you the reason to simply try to take them into the ground with your sarcastic comments. Thank god Jamie and Tom are professional enough (oh the irony) not to cancel your GOM account and have you deal with others. That would be childish and immature, although I might just put on a cheerleading outfit if that were to happen.

What they did was an awakening to the community of some business tactics that they didn't particularly agree with -- and a bit of an eye-opening for anyone who wants to do any further content design that deals with the SL software. That's something that has been done on these forums since day one when it comes to decisions that LL has made. Unlike you, I cheer when SL does something wonderful; but dammit if I'll sit back and say... "ohhhhhhh you're so great" when I think a shady deal is happening or if something hasn't been thought through.

They have talent, they've proven themselves to the community over and over. Those who bash them for unprofessionalism (and the forth-coming drama from your mouths) should be happy that you had something to sit on your stool and cheer about.

As I said, there are two issues here. My primary concern is and will be was code duplicated and was a home-grown SL business discarded for internal duplication. If that's the case, then yes, I will go to the wall for the designers and content creators. I will not sit back in my chair and not speak up. Nor will I blindly agree with everything that is stated and done by SL like a cheerleader on Prozac.

But you can't deny that your attitude towards them was a bit of a bashing. and it was an insult to many of the creators in the SL community to whom this might happen in the future.

Ebony, I'm not even answering your negativity. As I said, I'm just damn glad that I still and will go to battle for any underdog in SL. I don't brush aside strays either, but damn if there aren't some I come across that should be neutred and/or spayed.

Lynn,
Just curious. If LL decided to put an animation creator built into the UI, would you go to bat for me with the same passion?

Or how about when streaming audio was introduced, did you fight for all the makers of the 10 second sound clips?

Or how about when stream video was introduced, all the makers of those animated porn textures.

Or how about when the land auctions recently changed and for the most part, locked out the smaller volume land dealers.

Or how about when the rules on events changed and the people who relied on hosting events to get some extra money.

I mean if you are going to fight to protect one business from change. Don't you you think all businesses deserve the same treatment.

What Lynn said.

And I just don't get this "hobbiest" denigration. At all. Who among us couldn't be labeled hobbiest just as easily? According to the IRS, a hobby is something that loses money for more than, I think, three years. (I don't remember cause I never lost money.)

Anything that makes people income to declare is not a hobby. And I'm not sure how corporations do it, companies that are in the red for the first few years, but those aren't hobbies either.

As far as I can tell, none of the way in which they run GOM could be stated to be hobby-like, which implies something you pick up when you want to and ignore when you want to.

Where does this word "hobbiest" come from all of a sudden?

coco

If LL built in an animation creator into SL, the animators could still produce animations using their existing software, or the new built in animator. The only people loosing out would be the makers of the animation software like Poser, who would loose out on a handfull of sales. Do you think they'd care? 3 or 4 lost sales of Poser out of however many thousands they sell? No.

GOM on the other hand is an external tool with only ONE customer base. If the GOM functionality is replicated within SL then it potentialy puts GOM out of business.

There are several ways that a currency exchange could be built into the SL GUI that would activly support the 3rd party exchanges. However, the posts by Philip strongly imply that they intend to build (and have indeed already built) their own exchange which will compete with the 3rd party sites, rather than colaborate with them.

Ah, Torley! Philip has a blog! And people can comment! Neato keeno! (Have I also mentioned how hot he is?)

I think what's missing here is a sense of importance of things. As well as how they are done. On that blog, what'shername pointed out that this could have been done in a different way (I THINK so that the companies can be contacted directly from the interface is what she was saying, but I'm API/UPI/Whatever challenged), which is a good point.

Another consideration is impact, and future impact.

With the web streaming, we were having something analogous to movies vs still photos. That is not the case here. Ditto streaming audio.

With the case of the land auctions, and the event changes, Beau, I did protest those. I still protest the event changes - or would, if I cared anymore.

Some of Philip's other examples are also dissimilar in impact and type.

There's a difference between going into the money business themselves, vs introducing a way we can contact any existant exchanges more directly.

As well, there is a difference between something with huge impact and something minor.

As well, there is a difference between introducing an entirely new capability (streaming video) and just taking something someone else is already doing and making it easier to do - but through YOU, rather than through them.

Take vehicle changes. Though these will impact and perhaps make obsolete existing vehicles, it is a TOTALLY NEW capability being offered, rather than Philip deciding that it would really be a lot easier if we could all buy EXISTING vehicles through him. Thus, it is something exciting and inspirational for vehicle creators. It won't be LL taking the existing capabilities and just co-opting them, and selling vehicles themselves.

Those are some of the very huge differences between this and Philip's other conjectures that I've been able to articulate thus far. He needs to clarify his thinking, rather than coming up with a case to justify this action.

I think Philip is lost on some hypothetical slippery slope that really doesn't exist. That slope will enable him to justify taking over anything that is already done.

coco

The first point is a failure of GOM and their unwillingness to diversify, that problem is theirs alone. They had a diverse product and decided to put all their eggs in one basket. Poor business decision, but everyone else shouldn't have to suffer for it.

You are inncorrect, LL plans to clearly collaborate with 3rd party sites according to Phillip's statement on the matter.




LL will not be selling currency; they will be a pass through for 3rd party sites to sell to SL residents without SL residents being forced to reveal information to 3rd Party sites, thus protecting the privacy of SL residents and also, remove some liability from the 3rd parts vendors. The 3rd party vendors stand the most to gain much from this change. They will have access to more customers and people will impulse purchase. Also, they will not be burdened with chargeback issues, LL will. This should streamline their business, making it more profitable, with proper planning.

The selling of currency from "games" was (and still is) deemed ileagle by the game owners. However LindenLab actively encouraged it.



This is fine if you're IGE or AnsheChung.com that holds millions of L$ in stock, at a price that you set, to put up for sale on the SL Currency Exchange.
GOM does not own any L$. All those L$ belong to users. The current price on GOM is set by the users, not by Jamie or Tom.

Philips orriginal statement declaired that it is 'too difficult' for new users to buy L$, sighting the PayPal issue or having to enter CC details on a 3rd party website. All he has to do is allow 3rd party sites (which could include the catalogue sites) to use SL as a clearing house for payments with a very simple payment API.

He is already talking about paying the "sellers" by either a credit to their SL account or their SL registered CC. He even mentioned sending them a cheque, (even though this option has been removed from the DI awards program because they deemed 70 cheques a month to be too costly to administer...). He also states that any resident will be able to buy L$ from ANY OTHER RESIDENT. So this is not limited to a select few "sellers" but is in fact a direct replication of GOM.

It came from Zeppi himself:

GOM did sell all the other game currencies until they were defrauded and paypal told them to eat it and the threw in the towel. It was always illegal, that didn't stop them until they got burned. The fraud is to be expected in this sort of market and should be build into the business plan, just like chargebacks are if you accept credit cards as a merchant. So, that still doesn't matter. Their business is not diverse and that rest on their hands, not anyone else.




This means GOM has to change their business model. It is not the end of the world unless they want it to be. They can also keep their site exactly as it is and it still may thrive, they have brand recoginition and a loyal customer base. They have been competing with IGE, Anshe, SLEX, people selling on Ebay, and private deals the entire time and are still around.There is no reason to believe that they can't tolerate this change with a little smart thinking.

Competing on a level playing field... You buy from Anshe or IGE or GOM, you pay up front with CC or PayPal.

Click "Buy L$" in the new SL GUI and the charge is made invisibly to your SL account. NOT a level playing field.

GOM and IGE and Anshe can still compete on a price basis can't they? Well IGE and Anshe can as they set the prices of their stock. WE are the ones who set the price at GOM.

When a noob asks a Liason how to buy more L$ and is told "You just press the buy L$ button on your screen" who is going to shout out "oh BTW, you could also go to GOM or IGE or Anshe and use PayPal" ?

This is getting boring but...

They all can compete on a level field by selling through SL.

I disagree 100%. Most of GOM's business is day trading. I think that market will still exist. You are speculation that they would go out of business. You are assuming EVERYONE would use the new system.

I do not like the fact that 1 single 3rd party company has such power over the economy. Have you seen what happened since they decided to make changes to the format on the website? The value is at about $3.50 per block today. It has been a downward spiral since the changes.

Change is needed. And I am not convinced it would put GOM out of business either. I think they are headed on that path just fine by themselves with no help from the Lindens.

Totally false. GOM makes the same money whether I sell a block for 4.00 or 3.00. They make 10 cents a block no matter what. This is why I am so for this new possible change. GOM made changes that made the value of L$ tank, but they are still making they same money per block, it is the sellers who have taken a hit, not them.

Whether you buy direct from Anshe or by proxy through the SL GUI, Anshe still makes the sale.

GOM does not own L$ to post in the SL GUI. If you're selling through GOM and all the noobs are being told to buy through the SL GUI, who is going to buy your L$ from GOM?

If GOM trade volumes are cut in half, GOMs commision is cut in half, regardless of the L$ value.

And talking of value, if users really want L$ to be worth $4 / 1000, why do they continue to sell them for $3.50 as is happening now? The L$ value is down to the sellers, not the market software.

1) Fear the market will totally crash and they get nothing.

2)Some sellers on SL are college students and such who really need any bit of money they can get and don't have the luxury of waiting

3)Fear the market will crash and they get nothing.

4)Cassual sellers who really see it as nothing more than play money

5)Day traders who really dont care, they look at it on a profit margin point of view

6)Fear the market will totally crash and they get nothing.

What you are saying is like saying. "If people dont want to lose money on thier tanking stock why dont they just stop selling it?"

The choice of the market, not GOM.



The choice of the market, not GOM.



The choice of the market, not GOM.



The choice of the market, not GOM.



The choice of the market, not GOM.




Notice a pattern to my responses above? The situation with the tanking L$ is not being caused by GOM, it's being caused directly by the marketplace itself. GOM is not making the decisions that is affecting the price, the decision is being made by the marketplace as a whole.



That is exactly what is needed to be done. When buy/sell orders are driven by fear, they frequently cause a self-reinforcing cycle that drives further fear and further decline of the L$. That's why most r/l stock markets will shut down for a day or so if there is a sudden swift drop in value due to knee-jerk fear reactions. By stopping the selling, it really does stabilize the prices, simply because it short-circuits the self-reinforcing cycle.

Stock markets (and exchanges) are very much like a herd of sheep - any startling noise will scare them and cause them stampeding mindlessly away from the source of the noise. The problem though is that the sheep mindset only tends to make a mildly bad situation infinitely worse. It takes steps like intervention or refusal to follow the herd to succeed long-term.


- Newfie