Request of Phillip Linden

In response to Phillip L.'s thread:
Enabling a larger volume of Currency Exchange



Phillip - I would like you to make one more effort to come to an agreement with GOM. They were your choice from the beginning, and GOM is arguably a founding cornerstone of SL without which today's success would not be possible.

Before proceeding - show us a good faith effort and re-open the discussion with GOM.

Thank you for your serious consideration of my suggestion and I respectfully await your response.

Merwan

Yowsa!

Where's Ulrika? Is she having a baby? She should be here!

I agree with Merwan. GOM is what many SL residents use as their means to convert Linden Dollars to Real Life currency, which is a large part of LL's marketing of SL lately.

If they can do all the groundwork to make SL part of what you want to promote, and then you steal the idea, then none of our creations are secure.

I disagree with Merwan (and I suppose you by proxy). They are not stealing anything. They are adding a much needed feature to SL that will improve the experience for buyers. Third party exchanges (GOM, IGE, Anshe) are not cut out of the loop - they are the sellers the L$ are being purchased from. Does it mean GOM faces more competition and will have to adapt their business model somewhat? Yep. Where is it written in stone that they shouldn't ever have to? If this system will improve the economy even more, should it not be implemented because of GOM? I would hope no one would want to stand in the way of progress simply out of blind loyalty.

I think what they have proposed is very interesting, and I look forward to it. What I am not looking forward to is the endless amount of armchair quarterbacking and chicken little imitations that will go on.

I'm just asking Phillip to consider one more round of discussions with GOM.

That's all folks...

That is cool - I don't mind that - though are they talking to Anshe and IGE also? I am not sure what it would accomplish however, unless the point is to get GOM favored status in this system.

There's something very unsettling about the knowledge that a redisent or group of residents creats something very successful in SL, and then the Lindens themselves even consider creating something that will compete with it. What happened to all the talk about the Lindens being removed and us not relying on them?

Not only that, but how much value can the Linden dollar possibly have when the very people that create them out of thin air are considering selling them? If LL needs a few thousands dollars, do they just create the Linden dollars and place them on the market? What does that do to the Linden dollars the residents are trying to sell? What does it do to the market and the value of the Linden dollar?

Kind of makes me glad I don't think I've created anything the Lindens could steal and use themselves.

I don't think they are offering a competing service, what they are offering as outlined by Phillip seems like a complimentary product. This will allow people who don't want their personal information reveled to companies that arent really companies like AnsheChung.com etc but still be able to purchase Lindens Dollars. This is a value added service to the Linden buying consumer.



The person who has the potential to be screwed is the small Linden seller. I sell enough lindens to cover tier and that is about it. I am not cashing out 100K a week. The sellers on the LL website (IGE, Anshe, GOM doesnt count because members trade directly there) will probably lower what they pay on buys to cover margins. This might force some small sellers to stop using IGE where they get more and end up using GOM.


I think it is too early to even talk about what kind of impact this will have. The changes to events and ratings seemed great a few months ago, but now, they have made events hit an all time high in number and an all time low in content. What seems good or bad doesn't always work that way.

Actually Jonquille, Phillip was VERY clear in his post stating they are NOT going to be creating more money to go into the economy, and that all L$ sold through the new system will be user money -- OUR money, not created on the fly by the Lindens. He has not been clear yet if that means we would have to use a marketplace like GOM, or if we can just add our own personal L$ into a "pool" or something to be sold whenever we want to.

After reading Jamie's posts on the GOM site, I'm not entirely sure I trust that LL won't be creating whatever can get them some money. It all seems very shady to me, which is something I hoped to never think about LL. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about the bad feeling all this is giving me. I sincerely hope LL isn't so ready to screw their residents to get some money. I look forward to them clearing this up.

When it comes to something as fundamental as the economy of SL, I don't find anything unsettling about the fact that Linden Lab wanted to create an easy, secure way that customers could enjoy the benefits of buying currency from currency exchanges, without having to give up their privacy and go out to a third party site to do so. Linden Lab is not selling L$. They are allowing people to easily purchase currency directly through SL, using their billing info on file. That currency comes from a seller - GOM, IGE, Anshe, or any other seller that meet whatever criteria they set to be competitive sellers.

There sold TBUX in unlimited supply, which is one of the myriad reason their economy was a joke. If anything, it makes all the markets even more competitive. People will still use GOM as I imagine the price buying directly from them as you do right now will be cheaper than the direct buy price through SL - that is the difference. This is an important change that needs to be made - and I am glad that Linden Lab is doing so. I say this as someone whose work could also easily be integrated into SL (it has to a degree). Does that detract from what I've done? Nope. Would I want to stand in the way of improving SL? Definitely not - I would instead try to figure out how to improve and compete.

Actually he was very clear about who would be the direct sellers:

.... snip ....

He hasn't answered what the criteria is to be a "currency seller." Hey, I'm a currency seller. Is it that easy or do I have to have $50,000 USD in the bank, further shutting out more and more people from this market.

What about SLExchange? Last time I checked, they had a lot of currency. I suspect they'd like a piece of the action.

And if SLExchange is getting into it, don't you think SLBoutique might? What about SecondServer?

What I got from his statement was that he was referring to the currency exchanges. I would imagine sellers like you/me/etc.. would still sell to the markets we currently do. This is about customers being able to buy L$ - there is nothing about paying out USD to sellers, which makes sense.

Second Server primary operates on direct purchasing - not deposits (which is why I have always preferred them, I don't have to deposit money in some arbitrary account). Interesting question though.

At some point though, these guys simply become token middleman that you go to sell your currency through.

I suggest Philip should only let the 3 people with the most currency sell on the exchange. This would do two things:

1. You want to play you have to invest currency
2. It'll keep out people from jumping into the market and racing to the bottom.

With no slight to you intended at all... If your income came from Snapzilla, (say you charged for hosting) a field you've pretty much made the standard for, and LL decided that they were going to take your idea and use it to make their own money... you'd probably be singing a different tune. Most humans would.

Ok. Question as I try to wrap my head around this (currently i'm in the midset of Jon), but I feel I must be missing something.

So my question is, if a person is buying linden dollars from LL's setup, how will any 3rd party site have the money to begin with in order to pay someone who wants to *sell* Linden dollars for RL cash?

Because if Linden is selling, why would a 3rd party site give a person US$ for nothing in return? (ie: if that 3rd party site isn't selling the Linden Dollars to anyone because everyone is buying Linden Dollars from LL, then why would they offer to give US$ money to "players" when all the 3rd party site would be left with is play money they can't do anything with?)

I believe the 3rd party is still selling their currency to SecondLife residents.

The difference is that instead of having to go to the 3rd party website and ATM, you can now do the transaction via your credit card on file with SL and via the SL website.

This will help with usability, fraud, and trust issues .. hopefully leading to more people purchasing L$.

The minor problem for GOM, is that this puts them somewhat on equal footing with AnsheChung.com and IGE. However, they may find that their brand and goodwill are strong enough that they will be able to purchase L$ at a better rate than the other websites.

IGE, for example, does not have the greatest reputation in paying out to their sellers.

I guess my initial questions are:

If SL currently has three currency exchanges for end-users to use to transfer/trade and purchase Linden dollars, WHY do they need a fourth?

GOM worked very hard, too many hits/hacks to create the business they have today. GOM initially had Linden support (oh my! the old press releases!) in this venture.

I'm not buying the "ease of purchasing money" from the Second Life website using existing information to buy, trade and sell money.

So I would ask, why try to put out a successful business that was created and supported previously?

I am not saying I am not sympathetic to it (though I will remind you that GOM started out not being SL specific at all - the only reason they are SL specific now is because LL cooperated with them during their fraud problems, so they dumped other currencies). IGE has been a fierce competitor in this field also, GOM has not been in it alone, nor does their income come from GOM solely ($1200 total taken out of it is hardly income). GOM is not being cut out of the loop here, nor is GOM's idea original - just well implemented. Even if I were making money off of Snapzilla instead of bleeding it, I would be disappointed yes - of course anyone would, and I am not saying GOM doesn't have reason to feel that way. I am just saying that is not a reason to stand in the way of LL offering this service.

The question is more like how do they get their cash from LL? Checks, Bank Wire Transfers? IGE isn't going to apply that USD cash to their their on that 25% complete castle in Honeoye.

Financial gain over loyalty to a company that was loyal to them.

Doesn't do a lot to ease my concerns about LL leeching off of the very business they used to promote their 'platform'.

I'm a little confused with this.. LL forwards the payment received to what sellers account? Your LL account? Your Paypal account? Back to GOM, IGE, Anshe whom you listed it with? So they in turn can send it to your acct? So are people going to be paying 2 fees in here somewhere or is it still the buyer pays the cc fee and the seller pays the commission fee? I guess i'm more concerned with how LL is going to transfer the money back to the seller and the time frame involved in this transaction. It seems like we are adding another middleman to the process.