GOM Question re: LL Competition - Important Issue!
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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08-28-2005 01:54
From: Surina Skallagrimson There is a very big flaw in Philips proposal.
What Philip is proposing in simple terms.
IGE posts to LL that they have 10 Million L$ for sale at $4 / 1000
Anshe posts that she has 2 million for sale at $4.15 / 1000
LindenLab put these prices in the system.
Noob Avatar wants to buy more L$ so he presses the 'buy L$' button in the SL interface.
It asks him how many he wishes to buy.
It shows him the best price from the "approved" suppliers.
The L$ is transfered, the supplier is paid direct by LL, Noob Avatars CC is charged direct by LL (including a transaction charge and commission)
The flaw? GOM is NOT a currency seller. GOM is a website. GOM does not set any prices and so GOM cannot 'post offers'.
Flaw #2 The prices offered by IGE and AC already include cover for payment charges, you'd be paying twice. Can't GOM just quote what's on its exchange? I think this works out best for GOM, actually. Basically, they get paid to simply hold your L$ for you as you try to sell it through SL. AC / IGE will get a third of the revenue each, but their margins are going to get squeezed by GOMs efficient operations.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nations
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 941
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08-28-2005 02:00
Sorry Blaze, I added an edit as you were posting..
GOM does not own any L$ to offer for sale on the new LindenLab sponsored market.
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nation
Rizal Sports Mentor
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Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business."
Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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08-28-2005 02:01
I don't think Philip will mind that GOM is selling someone elses L$. It is, perhaps, the least he could do? 
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nations
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 941
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08-28-2005 02:03
The least he could do is nothing, which is probably exactly what he should do in this case...
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nation
Rizal Sports Mentor
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Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business."
Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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08-28-2005 02:09
I think it remains to be seen that this will necessarily impact GOM negatively.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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08-28-2005 03:02
You're right, I can totally see SL residents go through:
1) registering an account at GOM
2) linking an AV to it
3) setting up a PayPal account
4) verifying their bank account with PayPal
5) going to a GOM ATM to deposit money
instead of:
1) click Tools->Sell L$
2) enter the amount in the box and click OK
... NOT.
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Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
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Smiley Sneerwell
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
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08-28-2005 03:08
Reading some posts here, mostly by the same single poster, it occurred to me that there were probably passengers on the Titanic who stayed in their rooms, certain that the situation wasn't really all that bad.
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Smiley Sneerwell
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
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08-28-2005 03:13
From: Jesrad Seraph You're right, I can totally see SL residents go through:
1) registering an account at GOM
2) linking an AV to it
3) setting up a PayPal account
4) verifying their bank account with PayPal
5) going to a GOM ATM to deposit money
instead of:
1) click Tools->Sell L$
2) enter the amount in the box and click OK
... NOT. Sure, if they are going to save quite a bit of money. Even if they don't already have a Paypal account, people will get one if it means they can save money. Not everyone is so wealthy that they don't care about the price. |
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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08-28-2005 03:29
Well, for a start LL's exchange wouldn't bear the Paypal commission.
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Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
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Smiley Sneerwell
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jun 2005
Posts: 210
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08-28-2005 03:45
From: Jesrad Seraph Well, for a start LL's exchange wouldn't bear the Paypal commission. The commission will be at least enough to cover expenses like Paypal payments. No final word on what the actual LL commission will be. That commission may very likely increase once once all significant competition has left the market. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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08-28-2005 06:59
From: Smiley Sneerwell That commission may very likely increase once once all significant competition has left the market. That was my thought as well. Though I was told on another thread that I was just starting a conspiracy theory by thinking they would get money out of this. And I hadn't even bothered to state that part above. coco |
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Jekyll McHenry
GOM Lackey
Join date: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 24
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08-28-2005 07:51
From: blaze Spinnaker Can't GOM just quote what's on its exchange?
I think this works out best for GOM, actually. Basically, they get paid to simply hold your L$ for you as you try to sell it through SL.
AC / IGE will get a third of the revenue each, but their margins are going to get squeezed by GOMs efficient operations. Blaze, we're not given an opportunity to "quote" the exchange. We would have to relay *every* order through to SL.com. Right? If you put 10k for sale at $4.00, we'd have to notify SL.com. The problem with this is that someone could fill that order both at GOM and at SL.com at roughly the same time. GOM would try to cancel at SL.com but find that it had been filled there too. If the order is filled twice, *someone* loses. So in order to get around this, we could become a middleman, analyzing the market and coming up with "safe" prices for safe block sizes. We'd put 20k for sale when people were selling 10k, 5k, 5k at GOM. The problem here is that we'd need to do some analytical magic to determine that "safe" price. We'd have to take into consideration the spread, market depth, historical volatility, etc. It's a science that no one has perfected - if they had, there would be *many* more bazillionaires trading the stock markets. So we'd have to pad our estimate to make it safe, and that padding would instantly make *any* order we post too expensive and hence not appealing. All of this was explained to Philip - at least twice - but he wasn't concerned. This makes sense of course because it wouldn't be him taking the risk. J |
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
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08-28-2005 07:58
From: blaze Spinnaker Can't GOM just quote what's on its exchange?
I think this works out best for GOM, actually. Basically, they get paid to simply hold your L$ for you as you try to sell it through SL.
AC / IGE will get a third of the revenue each, but their margins are going to get squeezed by GOMs efficient operations. Our margins are not going get squeezed by GOM. They are going get eliminated by end users selling their L$ directly through Linden Lab's interface. Please read Philip's post carefully. We are not able to provide any added value anymore. Philip said he wants users buy L$ cheap. Do you really believe he will grant 3 accounts exclusive access to place sales orders and let them profit without adding value? In his post he writes about residents selling to residents. I think this should be clear enough. There will be no use for GOM, IGE or our own currency exchange. It is game over. IGE just drastically lowered their prices, they are starting to unload their 40 mio L$ now - at huge loss! Given, however, that Philip already talked about integrating one GOM like interface into the SL client back in September there is no reason for IGE or our own business to complain. GOM's situation may be different however. I hope they will not be forced walk away with nothing after pioneering the concept.
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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2nd Try...
08-29-2005 08:18
The courtesy of a response is requested: Phillip - Discussions To Continue? ReSend _/_/_/
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Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Pham Neutra
Registered User
Join date: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 478
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Is LL competing with its customers? Maybe its has to, in a way ...
08-29-2005 09:52
From: Merwan Marker LL competing with resident-created businesses? "LL competing with resident-created businesses? [...] Since you have decided to spend developer resources in an attempt to directly re-create a service already provided in exemplary fashion by two of your users, why should anyone believe that you won't leverage your position as the "owners of the world" to duplicate what *they* have built? Isn't this a *huge* disincentive for others to create things of value in Second Life? The implication that LL somehow is starting to compete with its residents is one that can be found on the forums a lot in the last day. Actually it is a question (Do you compete?) which has no easy answer. Philip himself tries to give one in the Hotline to Linden ( /invalid_link.html) where he gives many examples of rather sensible decisions which might be perceived as unfair competion and concludes From: someone [...] I could go on and on. Given how many brilliant people there now are in SL, I suspect that almost every time we add any sort of feature to SL we will risk this. Moreover, there are many cases in which people actually WANT us to implement things they've worked on, but possibly the community might broadly perceive it as competition. Its a very thoughtful post IMHO and everyone involved in the discusssion should give it some though. |
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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08-29-2005 10:23
Thank you Philip for your response! GOM --> Continue Discussions 
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Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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08-29-2005 10:29
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Newfie Pendragon
Crusty and proud of it
Join date: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,025
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08-29-2005 10:38
I'm mostly keeping my opinion to myself on this issue, except for one comment...
From this point forward, I'd be afraid to do *anything* in SL that could be considered widely useful and universally beneficial to the SL populace, for fear of LL 'appropriating' the idea and taking it over themselves.
LL is the Microsoft of the metaverse. Assimilate or be rendered nonrelevant.
- Newfie
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