GOM Question re: LL Competition - Important Issue!

Do you mean to imply that GOM doesn't have stiff competition at present? How many money brokers are out there? Are margins for any of the brokers particularly high?

Being in competition with the "mint" is a losing game for any broker. GOM just seems to be the first to have asked the question.

Great post, Cristiano. I agree completely, especially with the "people running away with this concept half cocked" part! There seem to be certain people among us who just love the idea of LL messing up, screwing over their users, going out of business, or any other misfortune. Why? It beats the hell out of me, and frankly is very distasteful.

It IS too much hassle for new users to purchase L$ as it stands now. You have to set up a paypal account, wait several days to get it linked to your bank account, and then you can buy some L$. I'm sure that prevents a ton of people from doing it simply because they don't want to go through the hassle. LL already has everyone's CC info so it makes complete sense for them to provide hooks to 3rd party exchanges while acting as the CC processor.

All we can tell from Ricky's post in the hotline is that GOM would like it done in a particular way when most likely LL will implement it in a way that works best for LL and is open to others who'd like to start exchanges as well... as it should be. Can you imagine the cries of favoritism if LL just adopted one third party business and elevated it to official currency exchange? That's simply not the way they do things. I was the first skin seller in SL. Does that mean I should be able to dictate the way skins work and any future changes LL makes relating to them? Ummm, no.

I understand LL's concern, making SL money widely avaliable to new users is absolutely a must. The more people buying $L the greater the value of the currency.

I remember my first days in SL, wishing I could buy money, then I saw an IGE.com sign somewhere. I was thrilled, I bought several hundred dollars worth.

I think LL wants to advertise the avaliability of $L in world, but LL can't advertise a 3rd party business for several reasons. The main reason being responibility without control of the money.

LL would increase the value of $L by increasing the demand. But it would also make the game more fun for new users. The idea is to keep new users past the first trial week. If lack of spending money causes frustration, many new users will leave.

My opinion is LL should offer free space to advertize 3rd party currency traders that have a good reputation. A disclaimer should be posted declaring LL can't be held responsible for trades with 3rd party companies. These signs/advertisements could be posted on all LL land, and allow shop owners to request signs.

Shop owners will benefit because users will have access to $L to buy goods from shop owners.

Just a thought from the peanut gallery...

Yep Chip. Just seems strange that LL has been talking for so long about integrating the currency exchanges into the client - and hasn't yet done it.

Maybe Ricky is over-reacting, don't know. Do know he knows how to get in touch with upper-management at LL.

Doesn't really seem strange to me. I imagine it raises a lot of complex issues and they don't want to do it until they've covered all their bases. There's a lot of changes we know they're planning to make but have yet to implement due to shifting priorities and bug fixing. It'll happen in due time

Half cocked: demonstrably untrue. The best cure for a rumor and speculation is sunshine, but we ain't getting any.

Why are people responding in this way? Would you not be concerned if it appeared as if LL were to hint that they were going to enter the skin market with a stable of graphic artists who had access to the internals of the texture baking code and could use that advantage to make skins that an LL customer/creator/merchant simply could not duplicate?

I'm not attributing malfeasant intent, but LL is certainly in a position where they *could* use their inside information to crush the L$ brokers. We don't even know that that is their intention, but their silence isn't helping.

You properly think that whether the L$ brokers are driven out of game to not affect you, so you cannot see why others might be concerned. Suppose the speculation were true and LL chose to set the bid and ask prices for L$. Is it not within the realm of the possible that their "market making" could have a strong adverse impact on merchants?

People are probably responding this way because all they see is a tempest in a teapot and lot of circling vultures looking for any hint of conspiracy to swarm all over in an "aha! I knew it!" sort of way. It's annoying, not to mention irresponsible.

LL can do whatever the hell they want with their product and platform and if it has a negative impact on my business I'll adapt and contine moving forward. They owe me nothing. My efforts have already been amply rewarded. I will adapt to changing times or fade into obscurity. That's my responsibility, not LL's.



Of course they could, but they've stated repeatedly that they have no intention of doing that. They are NOT going to start selling L$ themselves. How many times do they have to say it?



If L$ brokers are driven out of the game it would affect me tremendously. That said, if an L$ exchange can't adapt to changing conditions in the market and the platform they're already an extinction waiting to happen. Someone else will come along who doesn't have their feet planted in cement and will take up the slack. Welcome to the free market.

I agree with your point that 'tis their world and if they decide to change course that is certainly their prerogative and customers will have to adapt.

However, LL seems to both be affirmatively wanting to promote innovative player development and sending mixed signals about whether that investment of effort will be usurped. That was a major component of the original question and could have a chillng effect on the very goals LL is purporting to support.

How many times do they have to say that LL is not going to be selling L$? In this case, I think one more time.

*puke*

Yes - quite...

Irony, whatever next Anshe?

They have been talking about Havok 2 since beta

No irony. My post was meant seriously. I am full of hopes for Linden Lab to remain one better company than some of the big ones we know. We should encourage and help them on this.

I can understand Linden's policy of not favoring one resident business and of trying to maximize competition among residents. However, when this means destroying the competitive edge/base of one business it gets tricky. GOM is one great example. They invested much time programming and testing their platform and built a business, developed a competitive base. If now Linden Lab makes some API for everybody it completely devalues GOM's efforts. It must be to GOM what it has been to Netscape when Microsoft made one browser and gave it away for free.

Lesson to learn: Never invest much time and money in SL in hopes for some future strong market position. You better make sure you are profitable *now*.

I would say GOM's value is not in their API. No one really cares how the money gets in and out of SL. GOM's value is in the type of market it is. People buy from GOM for price and convenience. IGE has no API - they come on and do direct pickups and drop offs to players. Yet, they have managed to remain viable competiton to GOM. I think another issue is that concept of players being able to get funds directly through SL, easily, without having to figure out blocks and the whole market aspect of GOM would mean that GOM would have to change a portion of their business model to accomodate that.

I agree with the sentiment that there are no guarantees on market position or investment - to be sure you are profitable now. In that light, I ask you, how is the telehub land situation any different?

Below is part of Zep's (GOM President) post on the GOM Forums (Link below):


Until we raised the last set of questions in the hotline forum, LL's plan, as explained to us by Philip (in email and over the phone), was to build a system that allows users to put their L$ up for sale through the SL web site. Other users would be able to do a single click purchase through the website or the client. This system would match buyer and seller, charge the buyer's credit card and automatically deliver to them. This system is almost complete and ready for what they're calling "beta testing".

If my description was unclear, let me say it plainly: the system described is a direct duplication of GOM's functionality with the addition of credit card billind. And this is taken from communications with LL - it is not speculation on our part. You might not believe it, but that's your choice.

LL has had someone working on this carbon copy of our market for a couple of months now. His name is Peter. I'm sure he's cruising these forums. Say 'hi' Peter. Don't be shy! For the record, I have no problem with what Peter is doing. To the best of my knowledge, he's a fellow developer - not a policy-maker.

When we raised the issue in the hotline, Philip wrote to us saying that he was sad we couldn't make things work out between us. We responded reminding him of what had happened to that point. Our history is what follows.


Continued at

"Are you really sure... GOM message board




_/_/

Well that certainly goes a long way toward explaining Linden Lab's silence on the subject and does put an end to the speculation.

Can this be viewed as a more general caveat? If you do something really good for SL, they'll take your contribution? Seems so.

That's a fucking shame. I now declare Linden Lab Officially Unprincipled and Opportunistic Scumballs.

The only question left for me is when they will sell me a dune buggy that actually works and Nike t-shirts? I mean sell me a SCO-SL license. I mean, charge me to have my builds approved?

If you haven't read the link in Merwan's post, the picture is one of please come tell us how you made GOM so that we might "integrate" it into SL. It is a testament to Zeppi and Jamie's goodwill and Linden Lab's outright theft from them.

Any of those saying "I don't see the big deal" care to comment?

The real question is Why?

Why would LL want to do this? Are they trying to stablize the market? Are they trying to get teh economy moving again? What is there goal?

If you believe this then you have missed a lot of posts here and on There forums.

For two possible answers - see my previous post...

It all makes sense now.

I will gladly comment. Until we have seen what LL has actually done, it is a bit premature to crucify them. They are many things, but they are not stupid. Other than Jamie's post, which when you read carefully is completely devoid of any actual evidence of this, there is just pure speculation. That is a dangerous thing.

I still think that Linden Lab is positioning themselves to be the transaction processor, not the market, which makes a hell of a lot more sense. An L$ market integrated directly into SL, with LL as the secure transaction processor (ie..not having to reveal Paypal information to a player run site, not having to pay L$ out to a third party or trust you will receive the money after making a Paypal payment) and third party exchanges (GOM, IGE, Anshe, etc..) competing for the business is the ideal scenario. Yes, it cuts into GOM's business, but they do not have a lock on the market. Our entire economy should not be beholden to a site run by two people. Not one iota of actual implemented functionality has been revealed, so at this point, it is all conjecture. I can understand why people are leery of it, and even upset, but it is still putting the cart before the horse.

I agree that caution is necessary. But it's also interesting that people who are successful or feel successful (and many who aren't or don't) in SL are willing to counsel caution and give LL a pass - when any similar announcement involving any other organization or individuals would've provoked immediate fireworks. If Jamie's account is accurate - if - then there's a great deal of stupidity, lack of foresight, and ham-handedness involved.

But it isn't drama when it involves LL, because it's much too serious for the games we play on the forums.

As I posted in the other forum I think one thing we are forgetting is that many seem that LL/SL has to answer for the price of L$ which is set by such websites as GOM. I am sure this causes alot more headache then they wanted and more then other companies are willing to tolerate which is why many ban the sales of thier virtual items on ebay and such. LL/SL though has directly accepted and condoned this by allowing GOM and others to sell the products (mainly L$) and even acknowledging these people as doing such.

IF LL was to take, compete, destory, etc GOM I think it would be to have better control over what they already have to answer for and to make it more available to users in gneral instead of those that have paypal or want to setup Ebay listings.

"IF LL was to take, compete, destory, etc GOM I think it would be to have better control over what they already have to answer for and to make it more available to users in gneral instead of those that have paypal or want to setup Ebay listings."

I don't think they'd have many players left to worry about if they did that.

coco

Don't get me wrong I am assumign they would stay away from businesses like clothing, houses, avatar building, etc. I mean honestly people don't scream and shout when Ansche's prices go up or down in price. If GOM loses a penny or even OMG 50 cents then they are in this forum screaming thier heads off. Saying that LL needs to do something about it as if they support it. If I was going to be expected to support such a thing I'd want better control over it. Anyone who does technical support might be able to see this. It's like a computer Manfacturer troubleshooting an Internet peroblem. Yes you might need the internet but that's not what a computer is all about.

GOM doesn't set prices, the buyers and sellers set the prices. GOM - as all brokers anywhere do - takes a commission on the transaction. And if LL didn't want an third party to open up the L$ market, they ought not have given GOM the support and go-ahead to get the system working. If GOM has "caused" LL headaches, it was with LL's eyes-wide-open complicity.

If LL wants to control the prices, that's certainly their choice. But assuming that Jamie's account is true (and I challenge anyone to give evidence to impugn his word or impeccable reputation) fucking over people who worked their asses off to help LL turn L$ into a thing with real world value is really pretty slimy. I've not read any recent reports, but GOM hadn't been gleefully rolling in piles of money as a result of their endeavor; they were doing it because it was interesting and held the promise of someday, maybe, being semi-lucrative.

It is clear that LL is casting its net everywhere for revenue and doesn't seem to give a damn about the ethics of how they do it. As their posting for a VP finance shows, they are looking to be quite controlling:

Ironically, I don't think that GOMs predicament is caused by LL's intent but rather their desultory stewardship of their creation. I also think that The Philip has fallen prey to the SF dot.com executive self-delusion of "I made some money in the boom so it must have been a result of my acumen and brilliance rather than a happy accident".

disclaimer: I have no interest nor connection to GOM or any other broker or SL service (I don't even buy or sell L$); I do, however, hate to see good people get screwed by other's greed or ignorance.

Even if everything is true what is described by the owners of GOM here and on their own forum, what happened (or may happen) is what could be described "usual business practice" in a market like this. Its is dissapointing to the GOM founders and of course one can try to judge it by moral principles, but ...

... the economic system we are working in is not one, where a company gets sucessful by a management not using business opportunities when they see them, just to be nice to some "little guys" (no offense intended). Why should LL act much different?

The comparison of LL to Microsoft may sound somewhat mean or unfair. But only, if you take for granted that Microsoft = evil. What Microsoft does is (mostly) using its very strong position in the PC Market to its own advantages. And when some outside developer comes up with a new class of application that is interesting to a large number or PC users, you will usually find a Microsoft product in that category two years later. And four years later this product will have the market. Sometimes this product will have been developed on the base of the product of some acquired company, sometimes not.

I am not sure if LL will behave like that. But I guess it is rather plausible to expect them to act similarily with regard to some functionalities which they deem to be near the core of the SL platform: anything to do with money and transactions, e-business, search engines, communication etc.

It may not even be the revenues to be made here driving such decisions. Its simply a question of "control".

You may not like this situation, but I don't see much chance to change it. And yes, this makes SL a wobbly platform to build your own business on.

As Anshe said:"as long as you dont have any (written) aggreement with LL that gives you some more rights than the <normal> resident has", I might add.