Is SL turning into TSO?

Yup, you did:
"SL has become another TSO really. it used to be the 'techi wiki/artists' place. now its Barbie and Ken play house"

April, did I say ANYWHERE that I was "so unhappy with SL?"

Where did I say that?

Can't a person come enthusiastically into a game, and say to themselves, "hey, this is neat, now they need to just add a little of this and a bit of that, some support for entertainers who can't possibly make a buck, etc., and then it would be that much better?"

I like the idea of rewards for learning. And for really learning something useful, not just sittng there bored while your avatar reads a book or works out. I believe there is a place somewhere, run on donations, which has little stations where you manipulate prims for rewards.

I don't like the idea of greening. I would probably be safe in saying that NO one from TSO now in SL misses that.

As for the prefab houses, they are already around. I am making some to sell myself.

I doubt if anyone cares about the most popular house.

I'm not sure if you are being facetious or not.

My suggestions for improvements to SL have been outlined at length elsewhere, and mostly revolve around ideas for more things to do in the game, and more support for entertainment.

The fact that there are only three ways to make money - script, build, and sell land - is too limiting to appeal to the larger membership I would like to see SL have.

coco

All right, since you are looking at me askance yet again, as if I were paranoid or imagining things, let me connect the dots for you. Tiresome and time-consuming though it is.

1. “ I agree that coexistence is the best solution. However, a great number of the TSO refugees come into SL expecting a TSO-like existence, and demand features and changes which threaten the creative community. Oblivious coexistence becomes impossible when one of the parties inadvertently or intentionally calls for the destruction of the other.

(Edit: Two examples of this inadvertent conflict come to mind: stipends and permissions)

a. I am a TSO refugee.

b. I came into the game and called for changes, some of which would make the game more TSO-like, such as some kind of make-work ways for new players to gain money, as well as ways for other occupations to flourish that need built-in game support (my “you can’t charge for drinks on a game” theory).

c. In response to that, I was repeatedly told that this is not TSO and that my ideas were not part of the Linden vision.

d. In none of my desire for things I thought would improve the game was the destruction of anyone else involved.

e. What permissions have to do with it, I’m not sure. As for stipends, I don’t think calling for stipends to remain (which I have) or be what they once were (which I suppose others have) is tantamount to intentional destruction of what others here have termed “the creative community” (as if such a community existed in isolation, and only those who agree to its terms – such as no support for entertainment ventures – can possibly be creative), particularly since everyone receives stipends equallly.

f. Therefore, I am obviously one of the group of "they" being referred to here.

Moving on:

2. “They demand changes but they don't get them. Eventually they'll either adapt or leave for something that suits their tastes better. They also provide opportunity for clever developers to provide similar experiences within SL. Wherever there's a want, there's a market waiting to bloom.”

a. I don’t demand changes, but I do lobby intensively for them, while Chip et. al tell me it can’t be done; it is not within the Linden vision; etc. (It would also cut down on the same groups’ profits from GOM, but let’s consider that beside the point for now.)

b. I’m well aware that Chip and company feel that I cannot possibly prevail in any manner against their vision of the game, nor anyone who might agree with me, and that I will either adapt or leave; in point of fact, I have been invited to leave several times.

c. That market ain't bloomed, and ain't gonna never bloom. Because theres nothing in it for those who would develop it. Which is sort of my point.

3. “I don't understand why you would say that. The changes being referred to would be to the detriment of those creating content, and thus to SL at large.
You're trying to maintain a seperation that's effectively irrelevant - Chip and Ardith use "they" only as a generality (we can't name names, after all) and not as a suggestion that there's some TSO cabal here. Meaning, Coco, you're not part of the "they" “

Why I would say that? Hmm. Let's review:

a. I came from TSO.

b. I asked for the changes noted above, and more things as well, for other ways to pass the time here besides scripting, building, and selling land. I asked for make-work; I asked for support for entertainers; I asked for SOMETHING TO DO for people who aren't builders or scripters. Fairly loudly, too.

So I conclude: I am one of those who Chip and company are talking about. I also conclude that yes, they know that. Therefore, it is disingenuous at best to imply that I'm not.

4. There are some opinions presented, accepted, and agreed upon by some of you who seem think of them not as opinions, but as gospel.

For example:

a. That the changes I would like to would be to the detriment of those creating content. Of course I don’t think they would be to the detriment of those creating content; I AM one of those creating content.

b. That the changes would be "to the detriment of SL at large.” That is not a truism handed down from God. That is what YOU believe, your feeling – you, meaning, a bunch of you. Your mantra, in fact. I happen to think the changes I ask for would be for the betterment of SL at large. Amazing, that. 5. Where is Enabran? Isn’t he the one wanting us not to have any divisions? Like between "people who come from TSO" vs "the creative community," or those who wish changes made to the game vs those who want what's best for the game? Like between the builders and the scripters vs everybody else?

6. “So from every game that everyone comes from, there can be some good changes that are made to make SL a better place, whether you agree with the changes or not.”

This I agree with entirely. I would add that change anywhere is always inevitable.

coco

lol cocoa, you take and interpret everything so personally

i think you are also assuming much more negativity on chip's behalf than is there. He's not a negative guy, nor a self-righteous one, nor one who cannot compromise or admit error.

matter of fact, he's pretty likeable lol, as I am sure are you.

Yes or No? Is that good or bad?
Discuss

Please expound, Ardith? I recall a discussion on increasing the stipend a few days ago, and it was being led (and championed) by a few of the more literate wikki/artist types on this board. A bumped stipend has some advantages over and beyond what it does for those who simply can't create. I'm not sure in what context you're saying "permissions".

That sounds great, April! I would love to discuss it with you, but taking time to implement it, that I don't know about - I'm behind on my house as it is.

Now that I see what is meant by permissions - though I'm still not sure what the fair rights of first sale part means - I would definitely not be for the gutting of permissions. If everybody could copy and sell anything and everything, it would ruin the entire economy and anybody's incentives for making and selling anything. Might as well not have any money in the game then.

coco

eggy, do you really buy that? you know the barbie ken contingent was here right from the beginning.

Yes or No? Is that good or bad?
Discuss

I would love it if you took over the whole grid Mari