Is SL turning into TSO?

I think so, Barbie and Ken still need places to hang out and clothes to wear. You know, living in a Barbie World and all that. I mean, most of the "Barbies & Kens" I've met, still can appreciate a well made item and fall in love with it. So why not?

There are whole threads devoted to the the impact of the "Barbie and Ken" casual player on the game, including how to balance it with the "creator tekki-wikkiati" and the ever present mutable FIC. There are some strat in SL and there is a process of teething as the transition occurrs.

Of course the divisiveness was all created by only one person and as long as the barbie and kens learn to script and build this game will accomodate all players. Oh and don't espouse unpopular ideas in the forums, or leer at eggys (ormy ) man-boobs cause that might get you banned for inciting.

Course Eggy and I might get banned for inciting wild behavior from the ladies when we show our man-boobs. Cause everyone knows one night with ah bigga man is bettah that two wit da thin man!

hmmm all my Barbies always ended up naked with and stuck uncermonously a drawer.

Maybe thats why Ive collected so many girlfriends in Second Life.


Edit --- =p

"Is it theoretically possible to satisfy both simultaneously? - I mean - a SecondLife that is friendly to both those who prefer a Tech/Artistic experience, and those who want to play Barbie and Ken?"

Yes. Even within the same person.

coco

No, SL is not turning into TSO. It has inherited a bit of TSO culture since we've inherited a lot of ex-TSO players, some of whom continue the same play style. That's a good thing. I personally don't have any interest in it, but diversity only makes SL more interesting and gives everyone more choices, not less..

I agree that coexistence is the best solution. However, a great number of the TSO refugees come into SL expecting a TSO-like existence, and demand features and changes which threaten the creative community. Oblivious coexistence becomes impossible when one of the parties inadvertently or intentionally calls for the destruction of the other.

(Edit: Two examples of this inadvertent conflict come to mind: stipends and permissions)

That explains why my avatar keeps having to pee.

There is coexistence. Most of us dont care and let people do their own thing. If some people want to create drama, let them. Everything is fine. No destruction. No war. Next topic?

I took my av's pants off today and realized that I AM A KEN! ARGH! Good thing Ken's gay, cause Barbie is as ugly and unattractive as Paris Hilton... *shudder*

Another vote here to see Eggy's moobs!

The stipends issue could be viewed as an objection to a change and a request for restoration to conditions under which the creative community had previously thrived.

They demand changes but they don't get them. Eventually they'll either adapt or leave for something that suits their tastes better. They also provide opportunity for clever developers to provide similar experiences within SL. Wherever there's a want, there's a market waiting to bloom.

I have the same problem.

**epiphany**

And I thought it was just because of all those Martini's

Travis, we all know that male dogs pee far more often than they "need" to. You're just marking your territory.

When I left TSO well over a year ago and came to SL I was looking for more freedom. I disliked the idea of the goals as such in TSO being restrictive. I left TSO and never looked back and I would hate to see SL be like TSO and thankfully it never will be.
I for one will always move forward, not backwards

"They demand changes but they don't get them. Eventually they'll either adapt or leave for something that suits their tastes better."

Don't be so quick to assume "they" won't get them, Chip, old buddy! Cause "we" just might succeed!

coco

P.S. And guess what! "They" isn't something different from the creative community. "We" can be quite creative, too.

/me prays to various heathen internet Gods this never happens

I don't understand why you would say that. The changes being referred to would be to the detriment of those creating content, and thus to SL at large.
You're trying to maintain a seperation that's effectively irrelevant - Chip and Ardith use "they" only as a generality (we can't name names, after all) and not as a suggestion that there's some TSO cabal here. Meaning, Coco, you're not part of the "they".

By "they" I mean simply ex-TSO players who would like to see SL become more like TSO. How should I refer to people who fit that description? You seem to assume I meant it as a derrogatory comment. I didn't. I'm simply referring to a specific demographic.

Please expound, Ardith? I recall a discussion on increasing the stipend a few days ago, and it was being led (and championed) by a few of the more literate wikki/artist types on this board. A bumped stipend has some advantages over and beyond what it does for those who simply can't create. I'm not sure in what context you're saying "permissions".

I'm also going to raise a minor objection here to the seemingly dismissive term "Barbie and Ken". While I realize there are those in SL who 'play' this way, and a great many of them are TSO refugees, does this mean that there is a sharp dichotomoy between the creatives and the uncreatives (or non-creatives) in SL? Is that dichotomy creating friction? I always thought it reflected RL, where the creators and leaders produce (or manage) while the non-creators consume and follow. Isn't that symbiotic in a sense?

I own a house, and I just added another parcel of land to the front yard where I'll place my hot tub, and I'm planning on building a large party patio with furniture and possibly a pool with floatie poseballs. I plan to invite my friends over, which will include scripters, artists, creators, designers, attorneys and mathematicians ... we're going to confuse the hell out of the lot of you by playing "Blobbie and Kern" for an evening, followed by a massive math orgy in my living room. We will do pornographic, disgusting things with binomial equations.

I may even start a new group: "The Evil Barbies of Death".

Ph3ar us!

My barbies always ended up with their heads pulled off and their knees bent backwards. And my mom always vacumed up the little shoes. I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread though.

Seriously, someone please put me on mute.

IMO, if people wanted to see SL to be just like TSO, then why leave TSO?

In everything, not just this game, there is room for improvement. I am the first one to bash TSO but it was not ALL bad.

So from every game that everyone comes from, there can be some good changes that are made to make SL a better place, whether you agree with the changes or not.

I don't see how SL could EVER be exactly like TSO. It can't ever be exactly like There.
It can't be exactly like half the other other games that are out there.

Whenever you have any type of MMPOG, there are going to be similarities as well as differences. Its just how it works out.

All right, since you are looking at me askance yet again, as if I were paranoid or imagining things, let me connect the dots for you. Tiresome and time-consuming though it is.

1. “ I agree that coexistence is the best solution. However, a great number of the TSO refugees come into SL expecting a TSO-like existence, and demand features and changes which threaten the creative community. Oblivious coexistence becomes impossible when one of the parties inadvertently or intentionally calls for the destruction of the other.

(Edit: Two examples of this inadvertent conflict come to mind: stipends and permissions)

a. I am a TSO refugee.

b. I came into the game and called for changes, some of which would make the game more TSO-like, such as some kind of make-work ways for new players to gain money, as well as ways for other occupations to flourish that need built-in game support (my “you can’t charge for drinks on a game” theory).

c. In response to that, I was repeatedly told that this is not TSO and that my ideas were not part of the Linden vision.

d. In none of my desire for things I thought would improve the game was the destruction of anyone else involved.

e. What permissions have to do with it, I’m not sure. As for stipends, I don’t think calling for stipends to remain (which I have) or be what they once were (which I suppose others have) is tantamount to intentional destruction of what others here have termed “the creative community” (as if such a community existed in isolation, and only those who agree to its terms – such as no support for entertainment ventures – can possibly be creative), particularly since everyone receives stipends equallly.

f. Therefore, I am obviously one of the group of "they" being referred to here.

Moving on:

2. “They demand changes but they don't get them. Eventually they'll either adapt or leave for something that suits their tastes better. They also provide opportunity for clever developers to provide similar experiences within SL. Wherever there's a want, there's a market waiting to bloom.”

a. I don’t demand changes, but I do lobby intensively for them, while Chip et. al tell me it can’t be done; it is not within the Linden vision; etc. (It would also cut down on the same groups’ profits from GOM, but let’s consider that beside the point for now.)

b. I’m well aware that Chip and company feel that I cannot possibly prevail in any manner against their vision of the game, nor anyone who might agree with me, and that I will either adapt or leave; in point of fact, I have been invited to leave several times.

c. That market ain't bloomed, and ain't gonna never bloom. Because theres nothing in it for those who would develop it. Which is sort of my point.

3. “I don't understand why you would say that. The changes being referred to would be to the detriment of those creating content, and thus to SL at large.
You're trying to maintain a seperation that's effectively irrelevant - Chip and Ardith use "they" only as a generality (we can't name names, after all) and not as a suggestion that there's some TSO cabal here. Meaning, Coco, you're not part of the "they" “

Why I would say that? Hmm. Let's review:

a. I came from TSO.

b. I asked for the changes noted above, and more things as well, for other ways to pass the time here besides scripting, building, and selling land. I asked for make-work; I asked for support for entertainers; I asked for SOMETHING TO DO for people who aren't builders or scripters. Fairly loudly, too.

So I conclude: I am one of those who Chip and company are talking about. I also conclude that yes, they know that. Therefore, it is disingenuous at best to imply that I'm not.

4. There are some opinions presented, accepted, and agreed upon by some of you who seem think of them not as opinions, but as gospel.

For example:

a. That the changes I would like to would be to the detriment of those creating content. Of course I don’t think they would be to the detriment of those creating content; I AM one of those creating content.

b. That the changes would be "to the detriment of SL at large.” That is not a truism handed down from God. That is what YOU believe, your feeling – you, meaning, a bunch of you. Your mantra, in fact. I happen to think the changes I ask for would be for the betterment of SL at large. Amazing, that. 5. Where is Enabran? Isn’t he the one wanting us not to have any divisions? Like between "people who come from TSO" vs "the creative community," or those who wish changes made to the game vs those who want what's best for the game? Like between the builders and the scripters vs everybody else?

6. “So from every game that everyone comes from, there can be some good changes that are made to make SL a better place, whether you agree with the changes or not.”

This I agree with entirely. I would add that change anywhere is always inevitable.

coco

lol cocoa, you take and interpret everything so personally

i think you are also assuming much more negativity on chip's behalf than is there. He's not a negative guy, nor a self-righteous one, nor one who cannot compromise or admit error.

matter of fact, he's pretty likeable lol, as I am sure are you.

Forseti has said what my above post was meant to say, Coco - just that he's better at it

Hi Coco, I'm sorry I haven't been following the forums as closely as I should have. I didn't realize you were so unhappy with SL.

I've given this a bit of thought and I think I might have a solution to making a section of SL more TSO like. Unfortunately it would require some scripting, hopefully not too intrusive.

I hope I can formulate this idea properly. Please feel free to modify/critique/suggest the ideas.

1. This is based on the premise of finding ways to make money, and have actions and interactions more like TSO.

a. I know someone made a money making thing, where the person performed actions similiar to the "gnome" thing in TSO. We could espound on that and make more things along that line.

b. Another script for learning. This one would be like skilling. But it would involve actually going to classes. And after attending class, this would then entitle the person to be able to earn more money. We could decide if there are actually classes, say with tests at the end or merely something they have to attend.

c. A script kind of like the old tamogochi's, in which we would be required to take showers, use the toilet and eat. I was thinking that at each station, there would be an object given, and at the end of a session, in order to claim you money, you would have to have each of a number of items before you could continue.

2. We could create kits for people who wanted to run houses, including a prefab.

a. We would issue listings every day as to who has the most popular house and of which variety.

b. Money from dwell would be distributed as the prizes. And we could think of other ways to raise money, advertising, selling products.


I know this is a broad plan. What do you think?