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Patting each other on the back on an internal forum isn't going to make SL better

Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-09-2005 18:32
From: blaze Spinnaker
Oh, wait, but only people who have spent major $$ and have high BW connections can actually use SL.


Actually.. if this was true, I wouldn't be here. And I can name others as well who have suffered through even worse because they will do anything to be here. Just sayin is all. :)
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
WuSLu
09-09-2005 18:34
I have had a series of dreams, which continue from when I asked if there could be a group of new sims named after Wu-Tang Clan, and specified I would like to live in the region called Rza. This was understandably declined. From then on, I started to meditate more intensely yet more lackadaisically at the same time, and began to believe of what lay outside of the Silk Road of SL and to consider external injections into our systems. Yes, this includes unfluid FPS, which I would like to see higher and higher in conjunction with the quality we are accustomed to in other pools, pockets of life—specifically an online world such as There which exists beyond the outer kingdom of Esselle.

Talked to many Thereians who came over, who wonder why it is comparatively slower here. Yes, can give them technical explanation of all the data to rez and stream, but no... this is not mint. I want MINT! So I studied many gong fu movies, got a greater feel and appreciation for fluidity and lucid art of spirited soul.

In one of the greatest of my appreciations in cinema, Kung Fu Hustle, a man named The Beast aptly says it:

"In the world of kung-fu, speed defines the winner."

Translate to SL, and I recall many nodes along the way. I remember references in 1.6 to how framerates in some cases, with many avatars standing around, were getting "Therelike" with more work to be done. Someday, comparisons may be dropped because we can be harmonious boxers of our own in crowded places, a toast of kinetic energy pulsing like a croaking ribbit of a ripe frog.

The advanced wuSLu techniques and fortified precepts which I have analyzed clearly show that the road will not be an easy one. It will be full of pain, suffering, and a lot of cravings. Not unlike childbirth. But when the baby is born, oh boy what a beautiful joy! And then more children down the road. The babies are a metaphor for what—in wuSLu canon—is called the "Rebuke Lag Longevity" The babies are a metaphor for what—in wuSLu canon—which is founded on the concept of this, thusly:

LESS LAG, LONGER SECOND (LIFE) LIVES.

The end result can be appreciated by all. It does not take a computer programmer to enjoy a smooth show, a veritable tour de force, a bonfire of the vanity in electric cinema.

Every day when I go through SL, I close my eyes, I see a starfield with many colors. This has happened outside of SL, it is part of how I see the world as me. I see "colors that are bad", that are spiritually related to the bad lag that strikes me at times (specifically, UpdateGeom is a crippling paralyzer, I must fight back to emerge victorious). DAMN YOU LAG! And we as a community cannot be defeated, for the lag is like evil demons which horde us and hoard resources from us. We must be quick to attack with all tools we have on hand... rezzed swords, plywood cubes, and even use Appearance sliders to disguise and play tricks (as I am a watermelon trickster I can relate) on the lag demons. Not in direct counterattack, but to pinpoint weaknesses—like when changing clothes—and ask many questions. An evil demon hates inquiries for it cannot give honorable answers!

Maybe someday we will all train wuSLu in the dojos of Second Life and be learning the advanced form of "The Hippo Consumes Unhappiness" which is arcane but ultimate help. This, of course, is a metaphor for the liquid fluidity I wish to feel from the computer interface, like when I am managing my IMs and notice "breaks in the chain", also known as "watching a jerky slideshow".

I can say we can all do better, and be happier Residents. When this happens, the hippo will descend to mirthed reunion, its eyes alight in divine digital enlightenment; I caution we will not have yet become wise, but we will be wiser. And to be the oldest is to be like the youngest... from a senior to a child. Awake again in a sandbox, to have fun. To play.

YOUR WORLD, YOUR IMAGINATION.

*huggerz* my beloved avatars.
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-09-2005 18:35
From: blaze Spinnaker
Unless you and your girlfriends are going to 'bootstrap' SL, we need to turn to the ones who we can generally rely on - geeked out males who spend all day in front of computers.


Despite the fact that both my hubby and I are IT people RL. As well as gamers. I'm more a geek than he is. His DNS team teases him about that often.

So, yeah. pfft. Sexist is right. And I don't call that card often. :p
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*hugs everyone*
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-09-2005 18:38
I'm not sexist, I'm probably more fem than most of the girls in SL. My point was merely one of economic reality.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
09-09-2005 18:47
From: blaze Spinnaker
I'm not sexist, I'm probably more fem than most of the girls in SL. My point was merely one of economic reality.

You may not be, but IMHO that comment was - and like Pendari, I don't call that card often.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-09-2005 18:50
It is sexist. But so are commercials shown during oprah targeting women. I mean, really. Men watch oprah too!!
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Satai Diaz
Humble Bounty Hunter
Join date: 9 Aug 2003
Posts: 133
09-09-2005 18:54
From: blaze Spinnaker
It is sexist. But so are commercials shown during oprah targeting women. I mean, really. Men watch oprah too!!


So I guess 2 wrongs = 1 right

:rolleyes:
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Satai Diaz
Owner of SD Designs
DJ for Crystal Blue @ Cafe Hailey
Producer of Digital Paradise Studios & Cinema
Admiral of Kazenojin
Owner of SLRA
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
09-09-2005 18:54
From: blaze Spinnaker
It is sexist. But so are commercials shown during oprah targeting women. I mean, really. Men watch oprah too!!

I suggest you write her and tell her that, like how I wrote you and told you. ;)
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Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
09-09-2005 20:06
From: blaze Spinnaker
Do you know how much SL has grown in the last six months? I do.


So, you are going to make claims that can't be backed up? If that is the standard then I as I know how GOOD SL is doing, but I can't you how I know. Unless you can back up a statement like that, all you are doing is rumor spreading. I don't care if you have access to all the data in the world, if you can't publicly show the data, don't bring it up in a debate. At least SL has had the same company running it from the get go. I truely think that is were others have gone wrong, they lost their vision. BTW, have you seen 1.7? I think it is a step in the right directions. Also, have you seen the new screenies of HAVOC 2? That is something that will help everyone here lose themselves in SL.
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-09-2005 20:14
The peak online numbers have not grown 10% per month, not even near it.

I mean come on, they have been reduced to giving SL away for FREE. The other sites charge $$ per month and have millions of users. Not thousands.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Satchmo Prototype
eSheep
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,323
09-09-2005 20:15
From: Torley Torgeson
I have had a series of dreams, which continue from when I asked if there could be a group of new sims named after Wu-Tang Clan, and specified I would like to live in the region called Rza.


Did ODB have a sim?
Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
Macintels
09-09-2005 20:20
From: Ellie Edo


I can't even upgrade to a much faster Mac, because buying a new one now would be crazy, when a new, Intel hardware, Mac will render all the existing ones obsolete within 12 months.


Yup I'm on the same waiting game
Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
09-09-2005 20:23
From: blaze Spinnaker
The peak online numbers have not grown 10% per month, not even near it.

I mean come on, they have been reduced to giving SL away for FREE. The other sites charge $$ per month and have millions of users. Not thousands.


But SL is NOT other games. Have you seen the trends for those other games? The numbers shoot up at thebegining, people get bored, the number drop. I don't see that at SL. I see the numbers increasing, and they seem to keep increasing. A place of growth that you don't see is the teen grin. That grip is as much a part of SL and the main grid is. How many people do you know that have been moved to the teen grid? I know quite a few. I bet the numbers are better then what you are guessing at.

On a side note, how many games do you know where a play pays 100s, or even 1000s of dollars to the company to use the software?
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-09-2005 20:26
I'm not guessing at the numbers.

They have been in front of everyone's eyes for quite a few months now.

Chromal has all the stats. You can ask him for them.

Yes, SL has not peaked yet.. however its growth curve has.

SL needs an inflection point to get back on track. I believe that inflection point will be full, fixed caching and high FPS.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
09-09-2005 20:32
From: blaze Spinnaker
The peak online numbers have not grown 10% per month, not even near it.

I mean come on, they have been reduced to giving SL away for FREE. The other sites charge $$ per month and have millions of users. Not thousands.


i think there is no question that SL will have a longer gestational period. They have to crack some technical nuts, no question. Yes, ok, but where does that fact get you?

"Cory, hurry up." No, not effective. They don't need to be reminded they need a new physics engine, they know this full well.

I feel like you're always jumping up and saying "you've failed! you've failed! look at WOW! look at South Korea!" With the current state of the technology, it's like we're in the first few innings of the first game of the season. A little early to fire the manager don't you think?

Now if you had a list of development projects that they were working on, and presented a different list of development projects you THINK they should be working on (taking into account that not all engineers can work on all problems), then I would say that you are being constructive.

otherwise, I see hand waving
Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
09-09-2005 20:32
I guess the real questions are:

1) Is SL growing? Yes
2) Is SL moving forward? Yes
3) Are things changing for the better? Mostly yes
4) Is SL for everyone? Not yet
5) Is LL a stable company? Only time can tell

I am not going to worry about SL until I see it stop growing, stop hiring new people, stop coming out with updates, or SL becomes boring. Until one of those conditions is met, I think LL and SL will have a long and happy life.
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
Charissa Korvin
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2005
Posts: 138
09-09-2005 20:32
From: blaze Spinnaker
Juro, the metaverse will be nothing without women, I'll be the first to admit that. But in order for there to be one, we have to realise certain economic realities and bootstrap ourselves off the ground.

Unless you and your girlfriends are going to 'bootstrap' SL, we need to turn to the ones who we can generally rely on - geeked out males who spend all day in front of computers.


And it'll all start as soon as we stop listening to or taking anything seriously from chauvinist men who think they can run the show better than women.
I think the answer is a lot simpler and closer to home than you like to portray it.
Women, typically, have far mor TOLERANCE and PATIENCE then males...on average. Can you argue this? I don't think you can. So although your point may have a smatterng of merit in say, the pages of Maxim or some other men's magazine, if you're actually serious about your intentions I should think the best thing for you to do is not alienate your self from us, the fairer sex....unless...you LIKE it that way??? ;)

Maybe SL would be *better* if it were a $10.00 Sausage party but I highly doubt gender has a fraking thing to do with it.
Dnate Mars
Lost
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,309
09-09-2005 20:38
From: blaze Spinnaker

SL needs an inflection point to get back on track. I believe that inflection point will be full, fixed caching and high FPS.


I still have yet to hear an answer drom you about why we need high FPS? I get 15-20 FPS and SL looks great. Caching is not that easy. SL is an ever changing world. Objects, AVies, and even the ground changes all the time. How can you cache a build when it could be changing as you are watching it? I don't claim to be an expert on any of this stuff, but I know that if I have been in a spot and enough time has passed to cache what I am seeing, then SL has much higher FPS then when it is all downlaoding and rezing. So how exactly does caching need to be fixed?
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From: Cristiano Midnight
This forum is weird.
Narmotur Pendragon
Registered User
Join date: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 11
09-09-2005 20:38
What is everyone sitting around for? Get out there and make some FPSES!

But seriously, what are WE supposed to do about it? Let's all stop making fancy things until we have a graphics engine capable of keeping up with us! Plywood cubes for all! Since you know so much, blaze, perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us? What is it that you are doing personally to improve the FPS of SL for everyone else?
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-09-2005 20:44
We can stop asking for features that aren't related to FPS.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-09-2005 20:45
I see it's time for blaze to trot out his 'I know something about the gaming market' troll. I'd link you to the last go round, but as usual, he clams up once he's exposed as a google researcher (as opposed to a real one).

If you're actually interested, PM me and I'll drop you the link. Just make sure you have coffee handy for the read, you'll need it. (yawn)

On the other hand, my thread ending post yet glimmers like the wonderous gem of reality that it is:

/120/b1/39699/8.html#post432675

(Gingerly takes her tongue out of her cheek before she bites it off!)
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Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
09-09-2005 20:45
From: Satchmo Prototype
Did ODB have a sim?


Yes, it's called OlDirtyBastard.

Much props to Big Baby Jesus—RIP.
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Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
09-09-2005 20:48
From: blaze Spinnaker
The peak online numbers have not grown 10% per month, not even near it.

I mean come on, they have been reduced to giving SL away for FREE. The other sites charge $$ per month and have millions of users. Not thousands.


Somehow I have little patience when words like this are not backed up by data. Incidentally, I have been keeping a log of peak numbers of inworld SL population since June, here is some hard core data for you:

June 22, 2005 = 2,116

July 13, 2005 = 2,507

August 18, 2005 = 2,631

August 30, 2005 = 2,806

Now midnight eastern time : 2,784 (we passed the peak time already)

If you know a little math you can see that this is actually more than 10% per month growth rate, even considering the error rate and daily fluctations (I have many other dates, these are representative). Also let me preempt, I have screen shots for all these and will be happy to provide you in game :)

Let's see your hard data to backup your claim Blaze, else you need to take that statement back.
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
09-09-2005 20:48
Heh heh. Your posts usually end threads because I rarely bother reading them.

However, in that case, I just read it and you are right. But there have been plenty of other MMOs without the popularity of the Blizzard brand that have done far better than SL.
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Narmotur Pendragon
Registered User
Join date: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 11
09-09-2005 20:49
From: blaze Spinnaker
We can stop asking for features that aren't related to FPS.

Forward progress by stagnation! It's so crazy it has to work! Could it be possible that different people work on different things, and some people would be fairly idle if a halt is put on everything but the graphics engine? I suppose that doesn't matter. Also nerf shamans.
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