Second Life Forums Archive - Patting each other on the back on an internal forum isn't going to make SL better

Cienna Samiam

Bah.

Join date: 13 Mar 2005

Posts: 1,316

09-10-2005 05:07

From: Kazuo Murakami

First of all let me cover this right off. Yes I'm new to SL. If that means you can't take what I have to say seriously then so be it, but I do feel I have some valid points to add here. In no particular order:

Hi Kaz, and welcome to the forums (in case you haven't made post 1 or 2 your 'intro' post).

Despite the obviously popular opinion of some, reality is that everyone is the same on the forums, some just like to pretend they are superior. Unlike real life, whether they are or not is decided by how many people reply to them. Hmm. Actually, it may be just like real life. I'll have to think on it some more... at any rate, don't justify yourself. You don't have to, okay?

Now... to your post:

From: Kazuo Murakami

"there are just as many female gamers now as there are male..."

This is simply and utterly false. I could go and find all sorts of data to prove this to you but that would be like digging up data to prove the world is not flat.

Actually, in the MMO genre, women make up just under half the players today. And they are gaining. It is projected they will soon outnumber men. So while the initial poster is incorrect, they are, I think, only so by timing.

From: Kazuo Murakami

"2+ years after it's release, SL is climbing.. and it's still in it's infancy."
"imagine what Esselle will be like in TEN years!"

I'll preface this reply by saying that I really enjoy SL, and I wish what I'm about to say were not the case. That being said, the concept of time you are using to discuss this game is not realistic. If SL is an infant at 2+ years of age, then you are using a time scale roughly equivalent to the human life span. I'm sorry, but SL does not have 70 some years to live. In reference to the second quote above, it more than likely does not have even ten. If you want to prove me wrong, please just provide an example of a MMO which has survived for 10+ years. And please, use common sense, I don't mean sequels, I don't mean complete company changes, and I don't mean entirely new and different manifestations. Such examples are like saying "um... Ninja Gaiden is still around!" because an essentially entirely new game with that title was produced for xbox.

You are both right and wrong here. Right because you've got the lifecycle of the average MMO pegged (about 5 years) and wrong because Second Life intends to try and break out of the MMO label and become something other than 'a game' to the gaming market and the rest of the world.

Whether they can make it is a topic of much polarization and debate. Walk carefully. (grin)

With this said, if they do manage to break out of the MMO "box" and reimage themselves, not only will they last longer than 5 years, they may well go that 70.

As a new player, you don't quite get the context that has people talking about this like it can last that long. That does not, however, mean it doesn't exist.

From: Kazuo Murakami

Again, save us all some time and skip the "oh well you're new so you automatically have nothing to say" posts.

You're really going to have to lose the defensiveness if you intend to last here.

From: Kazuo Murakami

You don't have to be a SL veteran to know basic facts about the way gaming works.

Correct. However, you do have to be an SL vet to understand that SL doesn't consider itself a game and they are working to show the world that difference.

From: Kazuo Murakami

Yes, SL is different than other MMOs, but not different enough to break every single industry rule since the creation of this type of game.

Correct. It remains to be seen if they can effectively market and reposition themselves.

My suggestion to you is to understand the history here. Pick yourself up a copy of 'Snowcrash' (it is a book).

Again, welcome.

_____________________

Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.

Surreal Farber

Cat Herder

Join date: 5 Feb 2004

Posts: 2,059

09-10-2005 10:27

From: blaze Spinnaker

Juro, the metaverse will be nothing without women, I'll be the first to admit that. But in order for there to be one, we have to realise certain economic realities and bootstrap ourselves off the ground.

Unless you and your girlfriends are going to 'bootstrap' SL, we need to turn to the ones who we can generally rely on - geeked out males who spend all day in front of computers.

/me checks in pants.. yup, no penis.. I guess I better have some children and go back to the kitchen.

Does this mean I have to drop out of the mmorpg beta lists I'm signed up for?

_____________________

Surreal

Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004

Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)

Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

Join date: 11 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,065

09-10-2005 10:36

If patting the original poster on the back would make SL better, I'd do so; I'm kinda stupidly altruistic that way.

Tere Karuna

Registered User

Join date: 4 Jul 2004

Posts: 159

09-10-2005 11:39

From: blaze Spinnaker

It is sexist. But so are commercials shown during oprah targeting women. I mean, really. Men watch oprah too!!

None that Id date

Zapfire Jewel

Registered User

Join date: 10 Jun 2005

Posts: 1

Excuseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Me?

09-10-2005 12:01

Replying to this Blaze:

SL is laggy. SL is SLOW. If you are male and you have spent major $$ on your computer the last place in the world you're going to want to hang out is on some super laggy low FPS poor visual quality place like SL.

Oh, wait, but only people who have spent major $$ and have high BW connections can actually use SL.

-------------------------------

Wake up and take your head out of that 1950's hole you stuck it in by saying MALE.

I build my own computers and run my network so kiss my entire FEMALE azz for that insult. The are women here with brains. Oh and alot of people have seen me live on cam when I"m DJ'n just hanging out so I can back that up.

Do I want to sit around here and discuss CPU's etc with you all day? no. I have to go shop for some mascara since you think thats all we women do.

I do think alot of your points were VALID. However ASSumeing only men build or understand computers is the biggest load of crap you've ever stepped in.

Madame Maracas

Not who you think I am...

Join date: 7 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,953

Ahem ...

09-10-2005 12:40

From: blaze Spinnaker

I'm not sexist, I'm probably more fem than most of the girls in SL. My point was merely one of economic reality.

Consider this economic reality, if indeed the internet population at large is weighted heavily to the male persuasion (I wouldn't doubt that it is, however nearly every woman I know, family & friend, is online daily), and if one were to, for the sake of your arguement, presume that this roiling ball of male internet-mass is technically/geekily inclined (and I know some that are helpless), again just suppose that's true, don't you think maybe the bulk of these male uber-net dudes already know about SL, have tried it, etc.?

Wouldn't the "growth" & development population therefore have be female?

And who says women want lag any more than men? Are we less patient? Are our computers that much better, our connections that much faster than the long-suffering male SL'ers that we're impervious to the lag the male SL'ers are weighted down with, is that at all possible?

Maybe so, I have a decently fast connection (most days, grrr Comcast) and pretty spiffy machine, but I have male and female friends w/slow and fast connections, I'd say evenly spread.

Your desires for better fps are understandable, and yes, they'd improve the SL experience overall and help many specific aspects, most certainly. When you bring genetics into your arguement for why to improve fps, you weaken your plea immeasurably, tragically.

It's not a matter of men or women having better or worse equipment, connections, fps, it's a matter of everyone having bug/fps difficulties. The other thing to consider is rate of growth.

If you look back over various Town Hall transcripts, one of the things that gets discussed is the rate of growth, and I wonder how on track their numerical predictions have been? The numbers given, as I recall, don't make a distinction between alts and primaries, just raw numbers, I expect because they know a certain percentage of folks will carry a certain percentage of alts and it's built into their predictions.

So, if we imagine for a moment that growth is "on track" or nearly so, then we might also presume that more rapid growth would be a bad thing. Why? How?

Last I checked there's 44,000 or so accounts, let's say some massive swarming "I gotta go to SL" mass movement happens out on the web/net and all of a sudden, 40,000 new residents show up in say one month. With the current population count, of which we know for a fact (Log/Lagathon) only about 10% of us can/care to log on at the same time, we, the established, actively online SL'ers, would be outnumbered by new, excited, full of questions, pep and vigor residents by 10 to 1 (math right?).

I'd be happy to see all these new folks but it'd sure sux to be one of them. How the heck are they gonna get the help and guidance we all know 99% of new residents do need to get going here? It seems to me that about 20 hours of "play" in SL is needed for folks to get acclimated to just a basic level, and to "get" what it's all about. How in the SL/RL world would we, the 10% online at any given time, help these eager new folks? We couldn't. Just flat out would not be able to do a decent job and no matter the frame rate, they'd bug out in droves.

Now, imagine that the intake rate is more like 1 new resident to 20 established (or whatever flipped percentage you like), now that person is able to get help and answers and guidance. The numbers have jumped this week, no doubt in response to the free basic account offer. I've certainly run across a higher number of new folks this week. Eager, friendly folks, that I'm really happy to see here, and my friends and I have showered them with gifts of clothing and landmarks and answers and all the stuff that helps new folks get going in SL. On average, I'd say it's been 8 - 12 established folks around to 1 new resident.

This is a nicer way to do it, I think. So as we climb in overall numbers, say to 60,000 in the next 6 months I'd bet (easily), there will be still a 10 to 1 of established players helping new folks along. And hopefully LL will get the bugs and other various annoyances out of the way.

A few days ago, Torley posted a link to one of Philip's early articles/blogs about the creation of SL, from long before SL went public, and one thing that stuck in my mind was that he was thinking about developing this world/concept long before he started, but had to wait until the percentage of folks out there in the world had fast enough computers and connections to handle the streamed data situation that SL demands. The rate of growth, the technological demands, and it's necessary exclusion of those w/sub-par (not their fault, just a fact) systems/connections is built into SL.

Then again, if one can build a better mousetrap ... I'm sure one would! (I'll just paint them blue, thank you very much!)

Interesting post though, got me thinking, as you can see.

_____________________

RadioRadio - http://radioradiosl.com

M 6 Hobbes Abattoir
T 7 Sezmra Svorag
W 4 Brian Mason
W 6 Moira Stern
W 8 Nala Galatea
Th 6 Chet Neurocam
F 6 Vertigo Paris
F 9 Madame Maracas
S 5 Madame Maracas
S 8 TriNala
Su 6 Trinity Serpentine

http://madamemaracas.wordpress.com - Madame Maracas Blaaagh

Plurk - http://www.plurk.com/user/MadameMaracas

Introvert Petunia

over 2 billion posts

Join date: 11 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,065

09-10-2005 12:48

Blaze just gets off on the abuse. It's already been amply demonstrated that he says incredibly asinine shit to provoke this kind of response. Everybody has already denounced his pathetic troll against women and homosexuals, please don't give him any more gratification. Please.

Cybin Monde

Resident Moderator (?)

Join date: 27 Jan 2004

Posts: 2,468

*ahem*

09-10-2005 12:49

From: Kazuo Murakami

"2+ years after it's release, SL is climbing.. and it's still in it's infancy."
"imagine what Esselle will be like in TEN years!"

...the concept of time you are using to discuss this game is not realistic. If SL is an infant at 2+ years of age, then you are using a time scale roughly equivalent to the human life span. I'm sorry, but SL does not have 70 some years to live.
In reference to the second quote above, it more than likely does not have even ten. If you want to prove me wrong, please just provide an example of a MMO which has survived for 10+ years. ...

Cienna made some good points about this.

Second Life isn't just another MMO.. it's something unique unto itself. even There, which is close, is nothing like SL when considering all that you can do here.

and ok, let's go ahead and compare SL to online games. you haev a good point about the 5 year lifespan. what's it like 2+ years into something like CoH, WoW, EQ? many people drop out from boredom, content starts getting a little stagnant and there's something else of the same type of genre looming on the horizon, ready to take the place of the previous champion.

now, for SL, there are no great competitors. TSO, There, AO, CyberTown.. all of these have lost popularity and don't offer as robust a platform that's also evolving into an ever-stronger product. really, there's one other "online world" that's doing tremendously and may very well easily exceed the 5 year span.. ToonTown. but that's for kids and again.. doesn't offer what SL does.. another experience altogether. it's more of a game, while Second Life is more of a platform.

there's the main difference. there is a growing faction of SLers (and others) who will tell you that SL is the future of the internet. an internet you can live in.. one where you don't type in a website address, but instead you travel on our grid to it's plot of land and interact with it on a much more personal level.

even if SL doesn't become the "new internet", it's still a land that over 2 years after it's birth is growing and evolving at staggering rates. i've witnessed it firsthand.. the amount of land itself is mind-boggling. it used to be possible to know all the sim names by heart and what kind of stuff could be found in each one. today? no chance!

i must say, we easily have another 5 - 10 years in us. when you consider the advancements that will be made in that time, it will only prolong the life of Esselle. we're nothing like anything else out there right now, and as such can't be held to any timelines.

we don't have sequels.. we have point releases. the original product stays essentially the same, just better and better incarnations of it. as a newcomer, Kazuo, you haven't seen the introduction of custom animations, new scripting capabilities, large amounts of land introduced, the advent of private islands, and so very much more..
..trust me, once you've been here for a few months, you'll see what we're talking about. you'll see the "devs" in-world.. playing, having fun, having heated discussions.. living in the same world we do, experiencing what we do.. AND they actually listen to us! they interact in-world, on the forums and elsewise. find THAT in another MMO!
you'll experience the growth of your passion for SL and know what we're all so hopped up about.

you're off to a good start, Kazuo! you've posted here in a lucid fashion and i imagine you'll be a very welcome addition to our world.

if you really want to experience this fever firsthand, why not check out The Second Life Community Convention ’05! if you can make it to this, you'll have a blast AND get to meet some of the people responsible for the creation of this wild new frontier along will a slew of us residents.

-

k, i've gone on long enough..

thanks for your response and welcome to Second Life/SL/Esselle, Kaz!!

_____________________

"We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it."
- Philip Linden

"There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be."
- Willy Wonka (circa 1971)

SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.

Forseti Svarog

ESC

Join date: 2 Nov 2004

Posts: 1,730

09-10-2005 13:49

i was going to respond to kazuo but cybin has hit on the major points.

If SL disappears, it will probably be because someone does a better job than Linden Lab creating a faster, fancier, more flexible technical platform. While I agree I cannot see any one of those MMO games lasting all that long, SL as a platform really is quite different. Someone is going to pull off a quality metaverse, and that, like the Internet, has the potential to be around for quite a while.

Cue blaze talking about the long-term need for open source.

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

09-10-2005 14:21

I think SL has huge potential.

However, I still think the basics are important. I think ChinaTown should not have been laggy.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Snowcrash Hoffman

Digital mind virus

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 282

09-10-2005 20:39

From: blaze Spinnaker

Mon Aug 1 16:35:01 PDT 2005 2672

Growth to 2806 is about 130 or 4% growth in the last month.

August 18, 2005 = 2,631

Today (September 10, 2005) = 2,958

Difference = 327

One month growth estimate = 327/2631 = 12%

Anything else?

Patting each other on the back on an internal forum isn't going to make SL better
Cienna Samiam Bah. Join date: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,316	09-10-2005 05:07 From: Kazuo Murakami First of all let me cover this right off. Yes I'm new to SL. If that means you can't take what I have to say seriously then so be it, but I do feel I have some valid points to add here. In no particular order: Hi Kaz, and welcome to the forums (in case you haven't made post 1 or 2 your 'intro' post). Despite the obviously popular opinion of some, reality is that everyone is the same on the forums, some just like to pretend they are superior. Unlike real life, whether they are or not is decided by how many people reply to them. Hmm. Actually, it may be just like real life. I'll have to think on it some more... at any rate, don't justify yourself. You don't have to, okay? Now... to your post: From: Kazuo Murakami "there are just as many female gamers now as there are male..." This is simply and utterly false. I could go and find all sorts of data to prove this to you but that would be like digging up data to prove the world is not flat. Actually, in the MMO genre, women make up just under half the players today. And they are gaining. It is projected they will soon outnumber men. So while the initial poster is incorrect, they are, I think, only so by timing. From: Kazuo Murakami "2+ years after it's release, SL is climbing.. and it's still in it's infancy." "imagine what Esselle will be like in TEN years!" I'll preface this reply by saying that I really enjoy SL, and I wish what I'm about to say were not the case. That being said, the concept of time you are using to discuss this game is not realistic. If SL is an infant at 2+ years of age, then you are using a time scale roughly equivalent to the human life span. I'm sorry, but SL does not have 70 some years to live. In reference to the second quote above, it more than likely does not have even ten. If you want to prove me wrong, please just provide an example of a MMO which has survived for 10+ years. And please, use common sense, I don't mean sequels, I don't mean complete company changes, and I don't mean entirely new and different manifestations. Such examples are like saying "um... Ninja Gaiden is still around!" because an essentially entirely new game with that title was produced for xbox. You are both right and wrong here. Right because you've got the lifecycle of the average MMO pegged (about 5 years) and wrong because Second Life intends to try and break out of the MMO label and become something other than 'a game' to the gaming market and the rest of the world. Whether they can make it is a topic of much polarization and debate. Walk carefully. (grin) With this said, if they do manage to break out of the MMO "box" and reimage themselves, not only will they last longer than 5 years, they may well go that 70. As a new player, you don't quite get the context that has people talking about this like it can last that long. That does not, however, mean it doesn't exist. From: Kazuo Murakami Again, save us all some time and skip the "oh well you're new so you automatically have nothing to say" posts. You're really going to have to lose the defensiveness if you intend to last here. From: Kazuo Murakami You don't have to be a SL veteran to know basic facts about the way gaming works. Correct. However, you do have to be an SL vet to understand that SL doesn't consider itself a game and they are working to show the world that difference. From: Kazuo Murakami Yes, SL is different than other MMOs, but not different enough to break every single industry rule since the creation of this type of game. Correct. It remains to be seen if they can effectively market and reposition themselves. My suggestion to you is to understand the history here. Pick yourself up a copy of 'Snowcrash' (it is a book). Again, welcome. _____________________ Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
Surreal Farber Cat Herder Join date: 5 Feb 2004 Posts: 2,059	09-10-2005 10:27 From: blaze Spinnaker Juro, the metaverse will be nothing without women, I'll be the first to admit that. But in order for there to be one, we have to realise certain economic realities and bootstrap ourselves off the ground. Unless you and your girlfriends are going to 'bootstrap' SL, we need to turn to the ones who we can generally rely on - geeked out males who spend all day in front of computers. /me checks in pants.. yup, no penis.. I guess I better have some children and go back to the kitchen. Does this mean I have to drop out of the mmorpg beta lists I'm signed up for? _____________________ Surreal Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	09-10-2005 10:36 If patting the original poster on the back would make SL better, I'd do so; I'm kinda stupidly altruistic that way.
Tere Karuna Registered User Join date: 4 Jul 2004 Posts: 159	09-10-2005 11:39 From: blaze Spinnaker It is sexist. But so are commercials shown during oprah targeting women. I mean, really. Men watch oprah too!! None that Id date
Zapfire Jewel Registered User Join date: 10 Jun 2005 Posts: 1	Excuseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Me? 09-10-2005 12:01 Replying to this Blaze: SL is laggy. SL is SLOW. If you are male and you have spent major $$ on your computer the last place in the world you're going to want to hang out is on some super laggy low FPS poor visual quality place like SL. Oh, wait, but only people who have spent major $$ and have high BW connections can actually use SL. ------------------------------- Wake up and take your head out of that 1950's hole you stuck it in by saying MALE. I build my own computers and run my network so kiss my entire FEMALE azz for that insult. The are women here with brains. Oh and alot of people have seen me live on cam when I"m DJ'n just hanging out so I can back that up. Do I want to sit around here and discuss CPU's etc with you all day? no. I have to go shop for some mascara since you think thats all we women do. I do think alot of your points were VALID. However ASSumeing only men build or understand computers is the biggest load of crap you've ever stepped in.
Madame Maracas Not who you think I am... Join date: 7 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,953	Ahem ... 09-10-2005 12:40 From: blaze Spinnaker I'm not sexist, I'm probably more fem than most of the girls in SL. My point was merely one of economic reality. Consider this economic reality, if indeed the internet population at large is weighted heavily to the male persuasion (I wouldn't doubt that it is, however nearly every woman I know, family & friend, is online daily), and if one were to, for the sake of your arguement, presume that this roiling ball of male internet-mass is technically/geekily inclined (and I know some that are helpless), again just suppose that's true, don't you think maybe the bulk of these male uber-net dudes already know about SL, have tried it, etc.? Wouldn't the "growth" & development population therefore have be female? And who says women want lag any more than men? Are we less patient? Are our computers that much better, our connections that much faster than the long-suffering male SL'ers that we're impervious to the lag the male SL'ers are weighted down with, is that at all possible? Maybe so, I have a decently fast connection (most days, grrr Comcast) and pretty spiffy machine, but I have male and female friends w/slow and fast connections, I'd say evenly spread. Your desires for better fps are understandable, and yes, they'd improve the SL experience overall and help many specific aspects, most certainly. When you bring genetics into your arguement for why to improve fps, you weaken your plea immeasurably, tragically. It's not a matter of men or women having better or worse equipment, connections, fps, it's a matter of everyone having bug/fps difficulties. The other thing to consider is rate of growth. If you look back over various Town Hall transcripts, one of the things that gets discussed is the rate of growth, and I wonder how on track their numerical predictions have been? The numbers given, as I recall, don't make a distinction between alts and primaries, just raw numbers, I expect because they know a certain percentage of folks will carry a certain percentage of alts and it's built into their predictions. So, if we imagine for a moment that growth is "on track" or nearly so, then we might also presume that more rapid growth would be a bad thing. Why? How? Last I checked there's 44,000 or so accounts, let's say some massive swarming "I gotta go to SL" mass movement happens out on the web/net and all of a sudden, 40,000 new residents show up in say one month. With the current population count, of which we know for a fact (Log/Lagathon) only about 10% of us can/care to log on at the same time, we, the established, actively online SL'ers, would be outnumbered by new, excited, full of questions, pep and vigor residents by 10 to 1 (math right?). I'd be happy to see all these new folks but it'd sure sux to be one of them. How the heck are they gonna get the help and guidance we all know 99% of new residents do need to get going here? It seems to me that about 20 hours of "play" in SL is needed for folks to get acclimated to just a basic level, and to "get" what it's all about. How in the SL/RL world would we, the 10% online at any given time, help these eager new folks? We couldn't. Just flat out would not be able to do a decent job and no matter the frame rate, they'd bug out in droves. Now, imagine that the intake rate is more like 1 new resident to 20 established (or whatever flipped percentage you like), now that person is able to get help and answers and guidance. The numbers have jumped this week, no doubt in response to the free basic account offer. I've certainly run across a higher number of new folks this week. Eager, friendly folks, that I'm really happy to see here, and my friends and I have showered them with gifts of clothing and landmarks and answers and all the stuff that helps new folks get going in SL. On average, I'd say it's been 8 - 12 established folks around to 1 new resident. This is a nicer way to do it, I think. So as we climb in overall numbers, say to 60,000 in the next 6 months I'd bet (easily), there will be still a 10 to 1 of established players helping new folks along. And hopefully LL will get the bugs and other various annoyances out of the way. A few days ago, Torley posted a link to one of Philip's early articles/blogs about the creation of SL, from long before SL went public, and one thing that stuck in my mind was that he was thinking about developing this world/concept long before he started, but had to wait until the percentage of folks out there in the world had fast enough computers and connections to handle the streamed data situation that SL demands. The rate of growth, the technological demands, and it's necessary exclusion of those w/sub-par (not their fault, just a fact) systems/connections is built into SL. Then again, if one can build a better mousetrap ... I'm sure one would! (I'll just paint them blue, thank you very much!) Interesting post though, got me thinking, as you can see. _____________________ RadioRadio - http://radioradiosl.com M 6 Hobbes Abattoir T 7 Sezmra Svorag W 4 Brian Mason W 6 Moira Stern W 8 Nala Galatea Th 6 Chet Neurocam F 6 Vertigo Paris F 9 Madame Maracas S 5 Madame Maracas S 8 TriNala Su 6 Trinity Serpentine http://madamemaracas.wordpress.com - Madame Maracas Blaaagh Plurk - http://www.plurk.com/user/MadameMaracas
Introvert Petunia over 2 billion posts Join date: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,065	09-10-2005 12:48 Blaze just gets off on the abuse. It's already been amply demonstrated that he says incredibly asinine shit to provoke this kind of response. Everybody has already denounced his pathetic troll against women and homosexuals, please don't give him any more gratification. Please.
Cybin Monde Resident Moderator (?) Join date: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,468	ahem 09-10-2005 12:49 From: Kazuo Murakami "2+ years after it's release, SL is climbing.. and it's still in it's infancy." "imagine what Esselle will be like in TEN years!" ...the concept of time you are using to discuss this game is not realistic. If SL is an infant at 2+ years of age, then you are using a time scale roughly equivalent to the human life span. I'm sorry, but SL does not have 70 some years to live. In reference to the second quote above, it more than likely does not have even ten. If you want to prove me wrong, please just provide an example of a MMO which has survived for 10+ years. ... Cienna made some good points about this. Second Life isn't just another MMO.. it's something unique unto itself. even There, which is close, is nothing like SL when considering all that you can do here. and ok, let's go ahead and compare SL to online games. you haev a good point about the 5 year lifespan. what's it like 2+ years into something like CoH, WoW, EQ? many people drop out from boredom, content starts getting a little stagnant and there's something else of the same type of genre looming on the horizon, ready to take the place of the previous champion. now, for SL, there are no great competitors. TSO, There, AO, CyberTown.. all of these have lost popularity and don't offer as robust a platform that's also evolving into an ever-stronger product. really, there's one other "online world" that's doing tremendously and may very well easily exceed the 5 year span.. ToonTown. but that's for kids and again.. doesn't offer what SL does.. another experience altogether. it's more of a game, while Second Life is more of a platform. there's the main difference. there is a growing faction of SLers (and others) who will tell you that SL is the future of the internet. an internet you can live in.. one where you don't type in a website address, but instead you travel on our grid to it's plot of land and interact with it on a much more personal level. even if SL doesn't become the "new internet", it's still a land that over 2 years after it's birth is growing and evolving at staggering rates. i've witnessed it firsthand.. the amount of land itself is mind-boggling. it used to be possible to know all the sim names by heart and what kind of stuff could be found in each one. today? no chance! i must say, we easily have another 5 - 10 years in us. when you consider the advancements that will be made in that time, it will only prolong the life of Esselle. we're nothing like anything else out there right now, and as such can't be held to any timelines. we don't have sequels.. we have point releases. the original product stays essentially the same, just better and better incarnations of it. as a newcomer, Kazuo, you haven't seen the introduction of custom animations, new scripting capabilities, large amounts of land introduced, the advent of private islands, and so very much more.. ..trust me, once you've been here for a few months, you'll see what we're talking about. you'll see the "devs" in-world.. playing, having fun, having heated discussions.. living in the same world we do, experiencing what we do.. AND they actually listen to us! they interact in-world, on the forums and elsewise. find THAT in another MMO! you'll experience the growth of your passion for SL and know what we're all so hopped up about. you're off to a good start, Kazuo! you've posted here in a lucid fashion and i imagine you'll be a very welcome addition to our world. if you really want to experience this fever firsthand, why not check out The Second Life Community Convention ’05! if you can make it to this, you'll have a blast AND get to meet some of the people responsible for the creation of this wild new frontier along will a slew of us residents. - k, i've gone on long enough.. thanks for your response and welcome to Second Life/SL/Esselle, Kaz!! _____________________ "We, as developers, are doing the easy part – building the scaffolding for a new world. You, as the engines of creation, must breathe life into it." - Philip Linden "There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination. Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be." - Willy Wonka (circa 1971) SecondSpace (http://groups.myspace.com/secondspace) : MySpace group for SLers.
Forseti Svarog ESC Join date: 2 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,730	09-10-2005 13:49 i was going to respond to kazuo but cybin has hit on the major points. If SL disappears, it will probably be because someone does a better job than Linden Lab creating a faster, fancier, more flexible technical platform. While I agree I cannot see any one of those MMO games lasting all that long, SL as a platform really is quite different. Someone is going to pull off a quality metaverse, and that, like the Internet, has the potential to be around for quite a while. Cue blaze talking about the long-term need for open source.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	09-10-2005 14:21 I think SL has huge potential. However, I still think the basics are important. I think ChinaTown should not have been laggy. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Snowcrash Hoffman Digital mind virus Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 282	09-10-2005 20:39 From: blaze Spinnaker Mon Aug 1 16:35:01 PDT 2005 2672 Growth to 2806 is about 130 or 4% growth in the last month. August 18, 2005 = 2,631 Today (September 10, 2005) = 2,958 Difference = 327 One month growth estimate = 327/2631 = 12% Anything else?

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