New Users are the real Feted Inner Core

Yeah, amazingly that old article was the top listing on a google search for microsoft mmog.

You know what they say about assuming, right?

As for MMOs, Try looking up Vanguard. The other one... well... let's just say for someone who is kitching about research, you're a tad behind.

Okay, I'll bite...



First of all, that last line is the funniest thing I've ever heard you say Well done. Let me see if I understand what your premise actually is... I think you're saying that the tekki wiki crowd (as Prok would say) are a limited market and that if LL caters to them exclusively SL will never appeal to the middle American mass market (like people from, say... Idaho). If that's what you're trying to say then I think it's a valid point. In the past six months or so we've definitely seen a lot of disillusioned ex TSO people wondering why SL doesn't provide them with the same kind of built in goal and reward system. I think looking to LL for that is akin to expecting your ISP to have the stuff you want to read and see on their own website. The people who really should be providing those kinds of experiences for the public at large is SL's developer and content creation community, yet SL as a development platform hasn't evolved quite far enough to provide those kinds of experiences in sufficiently compelling ways. Maybe SL is getting caught with its pants down in a way, because it's growing faster with the mainstream crowd than LL anticipated.

If you accept my premise that LL is banking on us to provide those experiences (if not, just go with it for a minute), and I accept your premise (which I think is overstated) that the most hardcore content creators are receiving LL's focus, doesn't that sorta stand to reason? Wouldn't it be in LL's best interest to try and bolster the segment of the population they're counting on to create entertainment for the mainstream casual players?

Personally I think LL is trying hard to cater to both crowds as much as possible while doing things it thinks are important to fostering an environment where the world will fill up with compelling content and compelling experiences sooner rather than later.

I'm just speculating and giving my opinion. Any resemblance to the actual truth is purely coincidental.

Hey, why do you think I keep asking you which ones they are!

I'm wrong all the time. It's good to see microsoft doing vanguard. What's the other one?

I like this in the faq:

1.11 Is there a plan to hamper IGE type companies?

Yes, it's very difficult to stop entirely, and nor is there a simple solution, but that doesn't mean we don't plan on doing everything we possibly can to minimize the harmful effects this sort of thing brings to an MMOG.

Hmmm.. Hey, you know, this XNA may kill SL.

http://www.vanguardsoh.com/index.php

"Vanguard: Saga of Heroes" is a massively multiplayer RPG currently in development by Sigil Games Online, Inc. and funded and to be published by Microsoft Games Studios."

I am making pizza and maze games as we speak, so the disillusioned malcontented folks will have a carrot to chase. (Because apparently Tringo dominating the events calendar isn't enough).

XNA? It's not a self contained world like SL. It's intended to speed up development times for whatever game it is being used to create, by handing off some of the content creation to teams of content developers. That is where the similarity ends. Hardly an SL killer. There is no central platform like SL. I would also point out you think we have FIC here, XNA sounds to me like it creates a class of junior developers. That will really drive the supposedly ignored and downtrodden crazy IMHO.

blaze why are you so obsessed with the death of SL?

Imagine if XNA grows to a point where you can create an MMO in a very short time.

Why not? They want to make the XBox a huge platform and the only way to do that is to build tools which can provide quality content for the XBox. This is something that microsoft excels at and has a billion $ r&d budget.

I think the point I'm making is that LL doesn't have the luxury of time that it may think it does.

They need to start thinking soon about how to go big or go home.

I dunno, I think SL has a niche. SL has a sustained 20% per month growth in subscription rate last I heard. nothing to scoff at, especially for a small company. Remember, SL survived when there was only a few hundred players and had a very small growth rate.

Like I've said before, I will take steady growth over huge hype induced spikes anyday.

Most games that spike like that (with the exception of a few domianant ones whose content is all created by the developers, and are leveling or skilling treadmills), don't last too long. Sl has already outlived a few. There is pretty much dead, TSO is failing, and environments like AW are extremely cliqueish. You think we have class division here, check out AW sometime if you haven't before.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges in a sense.

I am wondering exactly what you think LL should be doing and why you think you have a better grasp on their product than they do after they have spent years developing it.

Back to the XNA thing, the world is big enough and has enough people in it to support 100s, if not 1000s, of online games and platforms (like sl). Everyday 10s of 1000s of people hook up to the net for the first time, looking for things to do.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

in related news, the sky fell down and broke like a piece of cheap plexiglass. many newbies were killed in this catastrophe. those newbies who did survive immediately started yelling that the FIC planned it. indeed the FIC survived just fine because they knew it was coming due to their umbilical cord like hookup with LL's upper management.

p.s. i have a bunyon, and its all the FICs fault.

Interesting comparison Nolan - World of Warcraft opened its doors on November 23, 2004. March 18, 2005 they had over 1.5 MILLION subscribers. SL has a niche alright.

Your point?

Are we comparing apples and oranges again? Apparently some folks fixate on numbers.

How do companies that make specialized automobiles compete with GM?

I play WoW by the way. While the landscapes are great, its just another cookie cutter MMOG shape.

All bust and no balls.

Which really makes you wonder, why in heck does SL only attract 25K people and WoW attract 1.5 million?

Because, blah ze. Those folks want to PLAY an RPG, which SL isn't. What a stupid question.

D&D is an RPG, WoW is, like Nolan says, a cookie cutter MMORPG.

I have a hard time seeing the attraction to clicking away hours at a time mindlessly to increase some number and add things to a database inventory.

But then, I watch too much Seinfeld. So who am I to complain..

Exactly Dev. These folks who want to measure SL by MMORPG standards will never get it. Frankly, I wonder why they waste their time and money on SL when to them SL's death seems to be a foregone conclusion. It's amazing that people who have never run an MMOG think they know how to run one.

blaze, your prized XNA awaits. OH! WAIT!. You're NOT using it. GO build your own game know it all. Lets's see how you fare.

Yawn.

Methinks it's time to close this thread. The rabble is once again reverting.

I expect nothing less from an "expert" who can't even qualify statements like Microsoft has abandoned MMOGs, all the while chastising others for a lack of research.

blaze has all the answers.

Hey, I was wrong about that. I'm wrong a lot. I have a pretty low IQ..

So can you PLEASE afford SL it's own metric?

" I'm your bitch! " - Bub Linden


So yeah. I like the Lindens. So far I haven't met a single one I didn't like. Cept jeff who refused to be my love slave.

It's called marketing, dear. And a damn lot of it. Not to mention Blizzard has a reputation in the industry of being honest, forth-right, delivering a consistantly quality product, and having a string of stand-alone successes that have underscored that over the years of their being in business.

Sony, Mythic, Sigil, et al -- they would KILL for the kind of brand loyalty that Blizzard has enjoyed with this MMO release. A loyalty that has remained fairly strong and uneffected (despite the shrieks otherwise from certain vocal minorities) by a rocky launch and the temporary cessation of product shipment (things that would usually kill a launch).

SL only attracts the less than 1% market because they:

(a) Do not follow the cookie-cutter design of 'The MMO',
(b) They support real-world transactions and sales (which, believe it or not, is a real hot potato for the rest of the genre),
(c) Are not a 'known name' with a history in either stand-alone, console, or PC gaming,
(d) Have not undertake a marketing campaign that would effectively get their name in the minds of the 'mainstream' MMO playing public.
The world requires more interaction and active creation than the usual MMO player will find interesting (e.g., I want to make pies to sell in market, not write code)

Bear in mind, these are not necessarily "bad" things, however they are far enough outside expectation that most simply will not bother with it.

Interestingly enough -- most players from the 'status quo' MMOs that I have spoken to enjoy this game/service precisely because it it NOT like 'the rest of them'.

Anyway -- there ya go. I'd tell ya more, but I ain't getting paid for this. -grin-