New Users are the real Feted Inner Core

I have several years' experience doing retail work, behind a counter.

If I have one customer constantly telling me I'm doing a bad job and that I'm playing favorites, and three that are smiling and asking for help nicely, and I only have time to help one or two of them, guess who I'm helping?

And as for the inevitable "Oh, I tried being nice at first", I don't buy that. I have found, in my experience, that there are two types of customers: the kind that understand that retail salespeople are real people, and the kind that treat them like emotionless robots.

Absolutely.

Also, what makes good MMOs? The ones with the most customizability, the most reliability, and the coolest graphics, right?

blaze, its all about perception. To some extent, the reality we each live in is representative of how we perceive it.

I see you perceive that LL is introducing 1.6 for streaming porn.

Cynicism does not beget progress. In your reality, streaming video = porn. In mine, it equals a drive-in movie theater, classes, seminars, myriad types of presentations, vacation slideshows, videos made by SLers - either in-world or out, SL television stations, etc., etc.

SL won't let you down unless you let it.

I'd put "a strong sense of community and connection" on the list of success criteria for sure, at least in the very particular instance of Second Life.

Nolan, for me SL is paradise.

Unfortunately, if they're going to target me as their audience they're in big big trouble!

Then I have to ask; who should they be targeting?

ChinaTown, fast and slick with no prim lag.

Well, let me edit that. If we go the entertainment route, then ChinaTown.

Personally, I'd prefer collaborative and immersive education and work environments. Unfortunately, the "I see entertainment as the killer app" statement (misstatement?) keeps ringing through my skull.

Chinatown's lag was only partially due to avatar-bottlenecks. Fortunately, 1.6 really helps out with this aspect.

Unfortunately, the major blockade to gameplay was listen lag, because when 4 people shoot fully auto Seburos and each one is shouting out llSay's to god knows how many listeners, your sim comes grinding to a stand-still.

Hopefully, LL will develop a much more efficient way to:
(a) Parse says via listen
(b) Pass data without using listen.

Yeah. That'll be it. It's all my fault the Lindens consistently ignore me.

Whatever you THINK you know about how I talk to Lindens, or how I bug report stuff, you DONT. I DO NOT, under any circumstances, give them ANY reason to treat me any differently to any other customer. I'm not asking for special treatment, or even different treatment. Just SOME treatment, at all. Please don't reply, Hiro, I still have no interest in discussing anything with you - it just pisses me off that you think its my fault I have a shitload of bugs that severely restrict my ability to enjoy SL, and you automatically blame me for no one listening.

The Lindens can be friends with anyone they want but they have to be ready to, at the drop of a hat, give a seven or fourteen day suspension to their nearest and dearest friends in SL, if the situation warrants. Being friends is OK but the Lindens need to be always ready to punish and maintain order indiscriminately. So far this seems to be the case, and SL is healthy.

Except talk about them badly on the forum all the friggin' time?


I'll concede that.


No, I don't think it's your fault that you have bugs. I do think, though, that there's a lot of work that LL is constantly busy with, and people who tend to be nicer about it get more attention.

LMAO this whole thread has kept me in stitches the last day or so.
I think it is so funny that Prokofy and Blaze have such an established agenda.

"Expose the Inner Core!!" OMG OMG Runaway Runaway it's the feted...woooooooooooooooo

Wanna know the truth, ...nah better not do that dont want to rain on thier parade.

So, Im just glad its happening here on the forums and not in world where things really count.

Least here I can laugh at them and go on.

BOOO Ya

Shadow

I'm not reading all this, just popping in to say... the whole 'linden awe' thing is over-rated in my book. A week ago, I was fresh out of the sign-up and standing in a sandbox and someone said 'There's a Linden.' I asked 'What is a Linden?' and lo -- even crickets were silenced as "The Linden" turned to me, looked at me, said not a word, and then turned back to whatever conversation they were having....

Let's just say that cured me of being overly impressed with Lindens.

On the other hand, the 'FIC' I've met have been gracious, helpful, and informative. I've yet to be blown off/ignored by one I've struck up conversation with (albeit unknowing their purported 'status' in the world), and I've never encountered one that in any manner lived up to this stereotype of 'aloof elite' that is bandied about in these forums with the fervor only religious certainty can maintain over time.

As a struggling writer in-world and someone who crawls to every Tuesday/payday, I can assure you I'm not 'an apprentice' (whatever that is supposed to mean)... though if there is a means by which to earn money by flattery in this place, sign me up. -grin-

Anyway... it seems to me there there is a new 'class' of folks in Second Life -- the 'Wannabes'. Actually, they are not new as either a class or a concept. There are always people who think they should 'belong' and, for whatever reason, often in the face of evidence to the contrary (like access for interviews, or the confirmation of being dignified with a reply, or other indicators of acceptance and belonging to a social group), they obsess about all the minute and often trivial detail that 'proves' they don't belong to [insert name of group].

The resulting drama... the wailing, the gnashing of teeth... it's all an accepted outlet in a society for venting one's resentment at not belonging. In the real world, it's called "Class Envy". It is never a pretty thing, and this thread does little to change that perception.

Undertaking campaigns to 'overthrow' them (the target group of "elites" fail consistantly, and often insure those who suffer from class envy never free themselves from it long enough to ever remove the thorn of 'not belonging' from their side and move on (not that most would ever admit it IS a thorn in their side).

Meanwhile, the target group is presented consistantly and regularly with validation they are correct in their decision not to affiliate or associate with [the class envious].

What surprises me is how so many continue to 'not get it'; how the dynamic works, why the "I'mma expose you, buddy" approach doesn't work, and why the class envious are forever their own worst enemy.

Annnyway -- the 'new player' is not the real 'FIC'. The ironic truth is -- THERE IS NO FIC.

Kind of like there is no spoon. Think about it.

I do not talk about them badly. Sure, I criticise when I think they're in the wrong, or ignoring customers. Which is the impression I get from my personal experiences with them. Sorry my opinion doesnt coincide with yours, and sorry my SL experience doesnt match yours. I have the utmost respect for (most of) the Lindens and the job they do, but I am really getting sick of being ignored now.

And what the hell is it with this 'being nice' thing with you? You think I submit all my bug reports with 'OMFG NOT AGAIN YOU BUNCH OF FUCKING TWUNTS!!!!' or something?

And if they ARE treating me differently because of anythign I might have said on the forums as you suggest (which I think is in your mind, and does not have any bearing on the reality of the situation), perhaps they could they just tell me now so I can sell up and go? It just pisses me off that since I first reported the problems I've paid them hundreds and hundreds of dollars and not had a single response to my problems, which are not inconsiderable:

For months - since 1.5.9 and then the asset server failures - I have had a number of major problems that severely restrict my ability to use SL. The most annoying is that I can literally not tp anywhere or even travel across a sim border without going offworld or becoming non responsive and having to relog.

There are a number of other things that are potentially more worrying, like the fact that half my inventory seems to have poofed out of existence during the asset server issues. Some stuff I try to rez gives me an error saying it doesnt exist in the database, while others just crash my client to desktop. No idea what the extent of the damage is, because I only find out as and when I need stuff. But it's a lot.

On top of that, my estate tools don't seem to work at all.

I've bug reported each of these things for months. Every time I get annoyed enough about it, every time I need something and it doesn't work, I file another bug report. I don't get replies. At all. Hardly ever. If I do, it's a question, and I fill in the extra detail and return it, never to hear again.

So am I being singled out for 'special treatment'? Should I ever expect these things to get better, or should I just accept that as long as things work for the majority that the odd one or two don't matter, call it a day and leave? Hmm. Maybe I should start a poll.

Heh, now you can all beat up on me for whining and threatening to leave.

Whoa, Cienna, that was really well said.

Thank you, though admittedly, it could not touch the glory of your super secret chat log.

(Or should that be $µp3r $3(r37 (h47 £09 ?) -grin-

I love online translators.

Blaze, I guess my view of SL is that it is going to be a rarified environment, not a mass market world, for some time. 1.6 won't make it ready... will 2.0? Maybe -- that's a big maybe.

Yes, I agree that while LL focuses on building out the technology, they need to keep a level playing field so that new users can compete with the old.

But I believe they do that currently. Now, the fact is that some older players have a brand and a market buzz, but you know as well as I do that any new entrant HAS to take existing market players into account and examine the competitive market carefully. If you go into a crowded market with weak marketing and weak product, you're gonna fail. Pointing fingers won't change the truth of who is to blame there. (blaze, to clarify, I am not talking about you here -- I don't even know if you have an SL "business"

Now I grant you that it is EASY for people to succumb to jealousy. It is EASY to see slights -- whether they are not getting a TP from a Linden or not recieving kudos for a free junkyard or not being highlighted in an advertisement on BoingBoing.

I don't think any of these things are slights. I don't think you need anything from Linden Lab to compete in this market. I would be thrilled if the Lindens "paid attention to me!" but I certainly don't need it nor do i really think i've earned it yet.

And if you aren't talking about business/competition, then what are you talking about? As has been said many times, we all can buy land, play in a sandbox, buy lindens, build whatever we want, etc. We all can stand around and act like 5 year olds jumping up and down like gleeful idiots if we want to.

uh oh... long post... getting wordy these days

--
EDIT: ditto to aimee's comment -- nice post cienna. insightful

What I'm talking about is that LL needs to look outward, not inward. Perhaps a challenge for a product which is trying to redefine exploration to the inner one rather than the outer one.

What people don't realise is that SL is not even treading water, even with all this FIC.

Forseti - SL isn't even profitable.

Is this all supposed to be some kind of charity where we throw good money after bad?

I have friends at EQ, friends in management, and EQ with it's 100K+users isn't even a viable business plan.

Why do you think EA / Microsoft, etc are dropping out of this market?

I think playing in SL tends to attract or lead people into rich fantasy lives which helps them happily follow Linden down the virtual garden path and all their comments about "oh we're doing just great... look Anshe Chung is making 100K / year! We'll hit profitability this year!

$9.99 once for infinite bandwidth? Clearly LL doesn't have a CFO.

Yeah, right LL. I doubt you'll even hit cash flow positive, never mind profitability this year. But hey, maybe you can start paying the bills with L$.

blaze, that's why you raise growth capital. Who would EXPECT LL to be profitable this year? They are at a nascent stage in an early market. Financiers have their eyes on the gaming market in asia (just like they do in wireless), where companies like Shanda, who had a relatively successful IPO last year, are profitable.

There is a reason why the investor in Linden Labs was Benchmark -- early stage, high risk capital with losses not uncommon among the first stage of the investment.

$10 one-time basic users? It's risky, sure, but probably a necessary marketing effort to seed the market/world.

It makes more sense -- given the stage of the technology, the state of computing hardware in the mass market, the ubiquity or lack thereof of broadband connections, and of course this kind of product offering -- that Linden Lab not rush this, not spend sums of money on a flashy marketing campaign, not expand the user base by too much or too fast because right now the majority of those people would probably leave (let's be honest, I don't think SL is ready for "universal appeal" -- the content and entertainment quality needs to improve as the tools improve) and you might only get one chance at those people.

actually so far, LL has shown a steady hand and not gotten ahead of themselves. They made the recent changes (as tumultuous as they were) at a good time. It seems like they are managing headcount at a reasonable level. No, I give them some credit here.

Oh, absolutely, agreed.

However, the magical step from the current endless red ink to massive profitability is not going to be business as usual.

It's a unique business model, for sure. But of course, LL is currently looking for their own inhouse "Alan Greenspan" to advise the economy, as was cited in this article:

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2005-03-23/news/feature_2.html

Some of the "Classes" in here are good role-playing . . . it goes well with the neoVictorian builds and many-primmed tea tables.

What exactly does this mean? It sounds like jargon to me.


Do you know this for a fact?


The way Sony Online Entertainment is run, I'm not surprised. Good thing EQ boasts triple that.


Which market? MMOs? EA's online sports games continue to be successful, though they are far from an MMO. And since when is Microsoft touting any MMOs?


Or there's that consistant 20% / month growth rate, but I'm sure that doesn't mean anything.


LL also charges a great deal of money in auctions for land that doesn't exist outside a computer.


There are many of us who do offset costs with L$, blaze. L$ has paid for my subscription and cable bill monthly, plus has purchased me computer parts. And I am a small vendor compared to some of the names out there.

It's not Jargon.

Several futurists (as well as Philip) have admitted that VR is a replacement for exploring outerspace.

http://secondlife.blogs.com/philip/

It's pretty easy to figure out that LL is not going to be profitable anytime soon. However, Philip admits as much in the Red Herring article:

http://zero.hastypastry.net/SL_Red_Herring/page02.jpg

TSO is slowly being withdrawn from. EA has said they have no desire to persue further MMO activities. Microsoft pulled the plug on Mythica in a huge about face.

LL has insane bandwidth bills. Anyone ever wonder why they had to move about so suddenly like? I've been there. I know why you do that.

If LL was getting a piece of the SLExchange market, I think I'd be more confident in their business skills. But for whatever reason, they didn't do SLExchange from the very beginning. This not only left it up to the incompetent and scammy business skills of others but also has slowed down the whole trade (vital trade) in virtual items.

Not sure where you get your news, but you're off the mark on this one. Microsoft is backing not one, but two MMOs slated for release in late 2005/2006 and EA is busy gobbling up franchises.

If you want to stay in the MMO and gaming loop, here's a link that will be helpful:

http://www.gamasutra.com

Can you provide some specifics? Which ones are they backing?

Which MMOs is EA 'gobbling'?

Just did a search on Microsoft in Gamasutra.. Couldn't find anything.

I regularly subscribe to a lot of feeds, suprised I missed it.