An End to Division

Other than the initial comments about you being Prok's alt, have you really been treated that badly Coco? I always thought you at least argued your points in a more logical, non-aggressive way, and have, for the most part seen people respond in kind. Maybe I was on vacation or something?

By the way, I meant to tell you David, something about my agreeing with some stuff you posted in your last post in the thread that got locked, in fact I agreed with nearly all of it; but when I wrote to tell you so, your mail box was full.

No, there weren't just a few initial comments. It was a total hell. And it was relevant to this, and it IS relevant to this, not just for me, but for other people who have gone through the same things on this forum, so it makes me mad. I will get over it.

coco

Oh, I see. Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, even though you deny it in this statement. Which one is it?



Alright here's a quote from yesterday:



Taunting and baiting.......equates to trolling.




Opinion, yours and nothing more.



Obviously to you, others opinions have no bearing on your own. You are perfectly content with being judge and jury about this community. Let me remind you, LL is the moderation of this forum, not you. Prok was banned by LL, not us. Yet you seem to maintain this assertion. It's abusive.

Well..I'm sorry then that you were treated so badly. I generally tend to be outwardly happy-go-lucky, so I seldom get overly upset about forum stuff. I mean really, there is plenty of RL stuff to get upset about these days.

I hope I never treated you badly, and if I did I apologize.

Thank you, David, I really don't remember which individuals said what, for the most part, cause I try not to notice, and it was a couple of months ago now. In any case, I don't hold a grudge against anyone who said or did any of those things in the heat of the time, nor do I wish not to be friends with any of them. I just don't want this sort of thing forgotten, or repeated.

coco

Gotta hand it to you, Weedy, that invitation to report my posts could be interpreted as "taunting and baiting."

coco

Nope. They were NOT.

Especially if you were a new person.

I admire and have been admiring the new folks coming in now who DO post and take a chance on these forums. I know I tried and after getting my head bitten off I gave up and focused on things ingame instead. Let some time pass so my join date didn't make me an automatic target before attempting again any sort of presence on these forums.

The one thing that HAS changed in the past 6 months or so, is the attitude towards noobies on these forums. Its not a huge change, and there is still work to be done, but there is a more positive environment in that area.

People actually get welcomed and encouraged and helped.

But really. Let's not pretend that everything was wonderful and rosy "before". As you can plainly see there is still a certain "climate" shall we say that has been on these boards since before I got here a year ago and hasn't changed one bit.

Naw..it's never been too rosy. In fact, it goes in cycles. Usually with one person as the focus, but not always. There have been others besides Prok, many of them that have come and gone. Though perhaps not as energetically.

Sometimes one idea or change can fuel a month long squabble as well.

I think two things are the main cause of this: Boredom and being human.

Well..and the third would be.it's all Brace's fault!!!!

Coco,

From the very beginning, your forum experience has been tied indelibly to Prokofy because of the circumstances of the forum mania that ensued. It is not typical at all of new players who start to post in the forum - even those who disagree (not that there is some master dogma that needs to be "agreed" to). We all have different opinions on different subjects. You don't think differently, any more so than I do or any random person does - you just think for you - think different is just a trite marketing phrase from Apple. SL is a mesh of all of our ideas,

I hope that moving forward your experience in the forums is not one where you feel under siege, but a welcome part and respected voice. I have always appreciated your posts, even when I have disagreed. Your perspective is interesting to me and I look forward to seeing more of it - I hope all of this hasn't turned you off to the forums.

as you've stated some very controvertial positions, and i doubt you've even gotten a formal warning... if i were you, i wouldn't worry about being banned yet.

if you get suspended, you might want to consider your position/behavior.

people don't get banned from the forums out of the blue.

they get

1. an informal warning
   
2. a formal warning
   
3. a suspension
   
4. and then banned if the other three don't curb the behavior ll deems inappropriate.
   

Who are you?

Sorry I couldn't resist that.

I didn't read all of the previous posts because some seemed quite long winded but here is my 2 cents. I think that Jeska's new law will help people realize that these forums are not intended to be a place for people to air their personal grievances against others. Besides being inappropriate those long windy me me me posts are quite boring. I hope this is the start of the end of division. You have to start somewhere.

Coco,

You said it, not me. People will read into things, what they are led to believe.

Why say it then?

To me, it implies, that you are willing to say anything, even if it leads to suspension. The forums are here to deal with straight facts, not some interpretation. So when you invite to have your threads reported, really, what does that say?

I have only responded to you a couple of times. I have said nothing to the effect of you being an alt of Prok's, yet you seem to maintain being a victim of the community at large.

You were accused by others, you denied it. I accept that. Lumping everyone together gains nothing except rebuttal. You are entitled to your opinion and nothing more, by throwing a blanket over everyone in accusation, you are going down the same road that Prok paved for himself. It's neither healthy nor community building, but by your own admission, you choose to be outside of the community....so please don't purport to speak for it.

in a general sense i agree, in that the weather in the forums is highly variable, but the overall climate is much the same.

but there are good sunny periods and there are stormy periods.

but any claim that the forums are a happy fuzzy place most of the time or were in some golden era of the past is very suspect.

I said it cause I was super PISSED OFF, Weedy.

coco

That's what I meant. Isn't that what's important? As for the rest of your reply to me I don't feel I deserved to be shouted at. I've disagreed strongly with you on certain topics but it doesn't mean I think poorly of you. When you make assumptions about my meaning and read in things that aren't there which seem to cast me as some kind of bad person and yourself as some kind of victim it makes it hard to have constructive dialogue. It's precisely that sort of thing that inspired my comment about fixating on the past. I have no ill will towards you at all (and never have) and I wouldn't mind receiving the benefit of the doubt sometimes, ya know?

You have a right to be mad. I know I would have been too. You were able to dispell the rumor too. I scarcely think anyone believes you to be Prok's alt. Those who have, have apologized to you (or at least some have). Acceptable?

I suggest that somehow you get past this, not use it as crutch to support your argument.

This thread is about an END to division, not the distibution of wedges for you to drive.

In your heart of hearts, surely you must realize that Prok did himself in, not the community.

I was mad about Prok, too, though - not just me - VERY mad about Prok! - and about certain people always having their way, while the rest of us on this forum just don't count. Whether we are in the minority or not, we ought to count for something.

I'm also mad about having Prok's contributions TAKEN AWAY FROM ME by these same people. People who are going to decide for me what I get to read! And I'm mad about others being run off, or the attempt being made to run them off, especially if I happen to agree with them, and I've seen that, too. I'm tired of us not counting. I want people to be able to post here BESIDES the same old same olds, and too many people have told me that they don't want to post just to be ripped to shreds.

Yes, I know Prok did 50% of doing himself in. Those who disliked him did 90% of it. Those who didn't try to do him in managed to learn a thing or two from him, to think a little more about things, whether agreeing or disagreeing. Now that voice is silenced. Great. Next?

No, I don't want to talk about this forever. The deed is done. The upshot is worse than anybody thought it would be - people will now lose their game in addition to losing their posting privileges.

But every time I see some elitist division being made by otherwise well-meaning people - such as "TSO refuges" versus "the creative community" I'll speak up about it, because that's important to me. Every time I hear my ideas dismissed because I'm not one of the self-appointed High Priests of Second Life-ism, I'll object, because I think my input is valuable.

And every time I see someone getting piled on mercilessly, I'll give my opinion on that, which is that it is never justified.

I won't agree that now that Prok is gone, all divisiveness is gone with him, when I see it still. I don't drive wedges by pointing out when someone says something that ASSUMES divisions that aren't there, or assumes that if you don't agree with their viewpoint, you are being "negative" or "divisive".

I mean, that's ridiculous. There is not the one "The Way" and one and only "The Way." There are not people who are cool and smart and clever and creative and then the rest are dull vapid stupid socialites. There are valid criticisms to be made of the game, and of its social structure. Doubtless I'll continue to make them, and trust I won't be banned for it.

Having spent the better part of the last 24 hours on this, I'm tired of it all, too. Obviously, I'm not going to be able to speak of it any time in the near future without getting mad all over again. I just keep getting worked up and writing reams.

So - I'm not going to. You've heard enough from me about it anyway, more than enough. I'm just going to go on with my game now, and try not to reference this particular incident much any more. I know I will mention it again someday, as a reference point; I just don't want to now, not while the wounds are still fresh; I've already said my piece more than enough. And it's not doing me or anybody else any good to hear any more of it from me.

coco

you may see it that way, but in the end what counts is ll's opinion when it comes to sl policy.

i can say with pretty high confidence that ll had done something that almost each and everyone in the forums has disagreed with at one point or another.

you keep taking up with the sl residents as if they are the ones making the decision at ll, but i never see you post to the hotline for clarification.

the lindens are very accessible. if you ask them, they will answer.

this whole pointing the finger of blame at the forum is a red herring.

your opinions count as much as anyone elses'. and they are just as likely to be disregarded as anyone else who doesn't happen to agree with the lindens.

you're not the first and you're not going to be the last person to be disappointed because things in sl haven't been going your way. you're not special in that regard.

you keep blaming the wrong people. if you don't like what ll is doing.. take it up with them. they will answer. only you won't always like the answer.

Sorry coco, I disagree. Prok received ample warning, yet continued, hence banned. It has nothing to do with the community. Prok is 100% responsible for his own actions.

There is no proof, that 90% of the community amassed to pressure LL. Thats just divisive and blanket blame, to the point of being abusive.

Enebran, I thought your post was great.

Given the difficulty many people have with "letting things go," I do not think that will be an easy task.

Ummmm, isn't that precisely what you're doing? Just sayin'

I don't get it. What part of "discuss ideas instead of other people" don't some of you get? It really isn't that hard to do and I suggest some of you try it sometime.

A few of you are cluttering up every thread with the same babble about yourselves and the ones you think wronged you.

Please everyone try to stay on track for the sake of the other forum users. Have some considerstion for others. Thank you.

I'd like to remind everyone to keep their discussions to the topic at hand. If you feel the need to discuss more personal issues, I would suggest other mediums such as instant messages or in-world chat.