An End to Division

Coco, you stand up for yourself when you feel you're being attacked, insulted, and beratted. Please let others have the same priveledge that you do. If you can't see how Prok's remarks were utterly insulting, degrading, and mean spirited then I am shocked, as you seem to be a sensitive person.

Can we please stop insultting and belittling Prok, he is not here to defend himself. I find that very wrong.

Cat

Cat please don't tell me to stop speaking my mind. It's not fair. I have not been rude or belittling.

Yes, I do, Ingrid, and I do so without getting warned for it so far, both in this and in other forums.

What I don't do is decide that it's imperative to get rid of an individual.

coco

Whew!!! Thanks guys. I thought the forums were gonna get all calm and boring there for a sec. Good to see that there is still a little fire left in them.

I know Prok is perm banned, but what is the point of him not being able to read the general forum, only a few of the others? What the hell is that about. I am sick of this.

Alexa

Do I have to be bad before I get a spanking?

Well I suppose the touchy feely come together and hold hands attitude is commendable, but I more for something that says respect each others differeces too.
In point of fact the divisiveness in the Sl community wasn't all created by one person. There are stratas in the SL community, real or percived. One particular indivisual saw it and reported it. Yes he did so in a gadfly manner, and upset a lot of people, but nevertheless there are divisions here.

I know and appreciate some of the vitriol with which one individual expressed his opinion and, yes attacked people directly. However in my mind this does not excuse the people who retailiated with equal vitriol from punishment. Every person is responsible for thier posts, and every person should read them and see if they are in violation of the TOS. At the moment the attitiude seems to be "yes I attacked so and so personally but he made me do it because he attacked me first." What troubles me is that the lindens recent actions seem to vindicate this attitude. The forum community cannto sit back and say "oh is was all about the gadfly" we each need to be responsible and held accountable for the content of our posts.

Recently I have seen posts (not involving the famous gadfly) where people simply reduce it to "fuck you and your ideas." There is a constant ongoing sniping back and forth in the forums where people assert that someone who promotes and unpopular idea, or somone who is under-informed is a idiot, or a dumbass or shouldn't be playing SL. To me this costant sniping is a festering wound.

It takes more that wone person to fule the uproar, and I personally think its about damned time everyone of us (even me) acknowledges our contribution to the problem. "The devil made me do it " is not an acceptable exuse. I think we all need to commit to the notion of no saying people are dumb, or condescending, or foolish, simply because we disagree with their ideas.

Right now I see only one banning for maybe thousands of personal attacks. It seems to me that one person got shouteed out of the forums for being unpopular. Yes the gadfly was provocative and corssed the line, but there are a whole lot of us who crossed the line right back at him, or each other. I am afraid now of asserting my own beleifs, lest I become the next person shouted out of the forums.

Just remember, it took a TON, and I mean a TON of effort on you-know-who's part to reach the point of no return. It wasnt a mob that caused this, it was that person's HUGE effort and the VERY poor style in which they delivered their beliefs. 99.999999% of us will do just fine.

When someone new comes in to the forum community and finds that they don't care for the existing forum culture or prevailing ideas they have a couple of choices. They can work at a polite exchange of ideas and learn to coexist in a manner that involves mutual respect and give and take, or they can declare themselves a victim and fight incessantly to the point where their self procliamed victimhood becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Only one of those choices can lead to anything productive. If people take the second route they have no one to blame but themselves. That doesn't mean that people have to come here and toe the line or become subservient. It means they have to respect that the culture and ideas they may not like they at least have to tolerate and respect. It's a two way street. People with a complete inability to be reasonable have no right to expect others to be reasonable in return.

And so, how does this explain me, then, Chip?

coco

But we as a community have an obligation to govern our own conduct accordingly. If someone calls me a forum trolling fucktard, I may be right in Abuse reporting them. I am NOT however justified in responding to them by saying they are and insane hermaphorditic asswipe, even if it is true. If some one offends you, put them on ignore, and abuse report them. That is what the ignore button is for. The gadfly came on and was provactive, but everyone in the forums made a spectale of him, the shunning was a low point, as it was nothing more than an organized personal attack.


On another thread I saw the gadfly being compared to the guy that walks into the biker bar and shouts insults. Well guess what, shouting insults in a biker bar is not illegal, beating him to a pulp for doing so is. What I am saying is we can choose not to be the biker, not to respond, not to participate in the inflammatory discussions. But the forum commubnity did not make that choice and thus we are all complicit in the gadflys actions.

Having read through the recent posts regarding policy I see a number of direct personal attacks. Frankly I think the lindens need to stomp hard on this from all quarters, ahdn hnad out three day suspensions to a number of people. Furthermore i think they need to post the content of the offending post in a thread to illustrate the kinds of things that are personall attacks. Of course this will not be done.


And Chris, I wold referr you to the recent closed thread regarding the new forum policy about personal attacks (there is a certain Ironic Beauty in that) to support my postulate that the personall attacks in the forum were not limited to prokofy. As a community we chose to respond to prokofy rather than ignore him. What ever efforts he made, we all supported him.

That's a fair criticism, Jake, but there's no getting around human nature. People who are attacked incessantly will be compelled to respond. Obviously the blame is shared, but more of it belongs with the original attacker. To suggest that someone should be able to engage in a sustained campaign of derision against others without drawing fire and dragging others down into the mud is utopian and a bit naive, even if I appreciate the sentiment.

How do you mean, Coco? You've had some snarky comments hurled your way, no doubt, but by and large people treat you with patience and respect. You can fixate on past bad experiences if you want to but I don't see how that's at all productive.

Hello SL Forum Members,

I just joined last night and figured I would come here and introduce myself. I am a 30 year old computer programmer in First Life (C, C++, PL/SQL, SQL, Pro*C, Java, and various scripting languages). I read about SL on a slashdot article and figured I would try it out before believing all the hype about it. It is nice to meet all of you.



I think I will try the first approach Mr. Midnight. I am bored at work on a Friday and decided to read some of the threads to get a history of the place. I don't want to come in blazing and insulting anyone but the forums have a VASTLY different feel than the in world area does. The in game world seems very warm, inviting, and friendly. Granted, I only have about 4 hours experience with it, but that is my first impression. The forums on the other hand, I have had about 4 hours experience with, but it seems almost the opposite.

So, for a polite exchange of ideas, how do we bring the forums general feeling closer to the in world general feeling?

Tex

Welcome aboard Textured

Apparently LL has and does.

You seem to have an imperative of your own flavor.

Your assertion that this was done by some shadow group and not Prok's own doing is laughable. Continuing to blame the community for his banning seems to be your stance on things. That will get you nowhere, possibly banned, as your recent actions have implied.

I understand your point as well chip and it is a good one. However I submit to you that my expecations are demanding more than they are naive. I think the standard of behavior by which our conduct in these forums should mbe measured is common deceny and not human nature. We should be accountable for what we ought to do, and not for what we are likely to do.

Welcome to SL, Tex!

It may seem a little rougher here in the General forum - but as long as you don a little Kevlar/Nomex - the flames don't bite too hard

You may also run into folks from time to time in-world that get you down - don't let 'em. In some ways, SL is a mirror to RL - there are all kinds of people everywhere.... and IMHO... the good folks vastly outnumber the bad.

Take it all in - give it at least a week - and by all means - enjoy yourself!

Welcome to SL Textured! You're right, the forums have a very different flavor than SL. In world everyone's too busy having fun and socializing to get too carried away with debate. Hope you have a blast

Jake, good point and I agree with ya. I just think it has to cut both ways and that drama and strife usually starts somewhere, and when it tends to originate from a single source with consistency it's not wrong for people to want to point that out, even if it's not always done in the most gracious of ways.

Coolest.

Name.

Ever.



- Newfie

Agreed!

Thank you all for the warm welcome and the advice. I will make sure that I keep my hands and feet inside at all times, and enjoy the ride.

Thanks for the compliments on the name! It took me forever to decide on it.

Tex

Allo Textured! Hope to see you on the grid. Swing by Boardman sometime. I'm usually futzing around there.

They do now, Chip. I'm happy to wait and see if things improve, or if someone else gets what I got.

It is unfair of you to suggest I am "fixating on past bad experiences" when the CURRENT DISCUSSION has to do with the banning of Prok, and my past experience, and my own personal undeserved hell, has to do with that exact topic and my exact stance and feelings on it.

Please do NOT try to spread it around that I am "fixating on past bad experiences."

That is NOT something I do as a rule.

That is NOT what I was doing when this whole brouhaha hit the fan, and you know it.

Kindly DO NOT characterize perfectly good people, who just happen to differ from you in some respects, in such pitiful terms.

Textured, you just happened to happen in on at a particularly dramatic time, when, as you can see, some people's feelings are running high. This will pass.

I DO NOT "fixate on past bad experiences."

Repeat: I DO NOT "fixate on past bad experiences." You DO NOT know that about me. You DO NOT KNOW ME, because if you did, you would know that I absolutely DO NOT DO THAT. I do, however, bring them up when relevant.

Weedy has said this:

"Continuing to blame the community for his banning seems to be your stance on things. That will get you nowhere, possibly banned, as your recent actions have implied."

Weedy has suggested that I MIGHT BE BANNED FOR SPEAKING MY OPINIONS ON THIS MATTER.

Weedy somehow thinks she has the inside insight into what gets people banned, and I am apparently on her list of "people who might possibly banned" judging by my recent actions.

What recent actions? You all know exactly how I feel and why, and what I have said. I have NOT accused you of "fixating on past bad experiences" when those very experiences happen to be the topic at hand.

And I RESENT any implication WHATSOEVER that I in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM deserve to be banned.

THIS is what I mean about the problem on these boards.

If YOU want the boards to "heal," if YOU want less "divisiveness" on the boards, then you might do a little introspection as to whether any of you are accusing someone else of "fixating on the past," or being "someone from TSO who wants bad things for the community and will either adapt or leave," or being in danger of being "possibly banned."

Those comments are divisive. Those comments are insulting. Those comments are the bigger part of the problem here.

Yes, I will eventually simmer down and get over all this.

coco