Is LL over stepping their power??

All but the Fonz.

Better! : http://www.high-tech.com/panther/

Thanks for not even reading the cited portion of the law in question. It makes it abundantly clear that you're just a troll, and not worth replying to any further.

I have to agree with Lordfly here.

If your employer can read your email and monitor what you do with your time in a day then it seems that LL could as well. This is their world and we are only their guests/customers.

How timely. Was thinking the other day about this subject.

With regard to privacy, I noticed in the last line of the legal code cited that there is a rather large exception that, tbh, I'd expect LL could justifiably claim allows them to review IMs and other communications within their Service:



I believe Ardith is referencing that last line (please correct me if I'm wrong) as bombing an island would degrade "service quality". Hence the response "If you had read the ECPA, you would know that even an administrator cannot just read another's communication whenever they like" is correct only in the context of "just read"; but that's apparently not the issue here. An administrator does need a justifiable reason. As an example, if a corporate IT officer has good reason to believe someone is leaking confidential and proprietary information, I know from my own experience that the legal docs signed on employment have the kinds of permissions built in that allow them to monitor communications under what they consider reasonable circumstances. Similarly, the ToS seems to give LL the right to use that exception.

wrt releasing the IM log, I suspect that there is at least one other individual talking - hence, LL can refuse to disclose the log in order to protect the privacy of the other individual. Is it a loophole? In a sense, I believe it is. However, it's their service. And legally they appear to be complying with both the law and their own ToS.

Just my .02

I have heard that LL has ALL of my IM's and chat scroll across the bottom of their monitors. They watch every move I make. The other day, a Linden was following me, so I tp'd to a private sim, he did too. I also think they are using sleeper agents, people that have pretended to be my friends for over a year, I now think are Linden agents meant to watch my every move. I heard that Andrew Linden has all of my IM's sent to his cell phone. The other day, I was at the RL grocery store buying some tinfoil for a hat, an old lady seemed to be watching me. Upon close inspection I realized it was Bub Linden, dressed in an old lady avatar! This has me really freaked out. Be afraid, be very afraid.

From the TOS:


So to answer the original question; No they have not over stepped their power.

Not me really Schwan I mean you would know right? You don't think it's me do you? Please don't think it's me and stop talking cause they'll kill me I know they will and then Doh um I my screen's full of IMs from that Ingrid agent Person GIRL just can't get this right can I.

You guys are all taking positions so off the wall that I cant tell if you are nuts or just trying to be silly. Ardith posts a passage of the code that states quite clearly that even the owner of a server can ONLY read another person's private messages as a consequence of repairing or protecting that specific piece of equipment, but for some unknown reason, you think that it actually means that anyone who owns the server can read any messages whenever they like - just pull up a chair and look for anything interesting.



Here is the part of the ECPA that Ardith was so nice to cite. Be sure to read the last couple of lines - and try to comprehend them:

"Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2511
2.a.i. It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for an operator of a switchboard, or an officer, employee, or agent of a provider of wire or electronic communication service, whose facilities are used in the transmission of a wire or electronic communication, to intercept, disclose, or use that communication in the normal course of his employment while engaged in any activity which is a necessary incident to the rendition of his service or to the protection of the rights or property of the provider of that service, except that a provider of wire communication service to the public shall not utilize service observing or random monitoring except for mechanical or service quality control checks."



My original point was that the owner of a messaging system cannot read another person's private messages, that the TOS might let LL off the hook, but that, because it was vague, it very well might not let them off the hook, and that one should consult a lawyer, in Real Life, not some gamers with no life except Second Life.

Here is the LL TOS passage concerning Privacy:

"8.2 Linden Observation. You acknowledge and agree that Linden , in its sole discretion, may track, record, observe or follow any and all of your interactions within the Service."

Here is what a Real Life law firm has to say about vague references to consent to monitor:

"Courts, however, have been fairly conservative in construing the meaning of implied consent. Mere knowledge of the employer’s monitoring capability typically does not constitute implied consent to monitor all e-mails.[20] Likewise, if an employer only threatens or suggests that monitoring may be done, employees probably will not be found to have implicitly consented.[21] Consequently, the legality of e-mail monitoring under the prior consent exception may depend upon both the specificity and the clarity of the employer’s monitoring policy."


http://www.uhlaw.com/perspectives/publications/Champagne_monitoring_email_Jun1999.aspx


LL is on shaky ground reading the communications of others where there is the expectation of privacy. For a definitive answer, talk to a real lawyer. Disagree with that if you like, but, to a sane person, that is a level headed assessment of the situation here.

Smiley,
You keep accusing people of being "not a lawyer" and unable to comprehend any of this info. Are YOU a lawyer? Accusing people of being too stupid to understand you isn't going to win you anybody to your "side." If a real lawyer used that argument in court, I wonder what the judge would say. "Well jury, if ya'll weren't so dumb, you'd realize *I'm* right and the defendent is just wrong."

If someone is threatening SL with grief attacks, SL is within their rights to monitor them. Just like when you are sending private emails at work, if you talk about how you are going to steal company info, the administrators can read your emails (and fire you). It has happened in the RL. My administrators at work have most websites blocked right now (virus issues, they are blocking my right to surf the net!) or I'd look up a specific example.

And I'd love to see a court case where a MMORG was forced to unban a player because the TOS was too vague. Or because they "illegally" listened to a private IM. Not that I'm suggesting YOU do it. I mean, it is my responsibility to back up your arguement and all.

Theres a big difference between a MMOG company reading IMs and banning people;

And reading IMs and divulging the information they gain.


The first LL will likely be protected in doing.

The second is where they could potentially get in trouble with.

I just found a camera with an LL logo on it in my RL bedroom, is this covered in to ToS?

I agree with Colette. Hence the reason LL wouldn't give the info they collected in IMs. Although I do wonder if the other person was banned too.

I mean, if they were solicitating someone to blow up a sim, aren't they at fault too?

Mal - LL or SL? Because if it is LL wouldn't it not be covered under the SL ToS? Or something. I'm not a lawyer ya know. But there may be some on the forums. I hear LF is an undercover big shot lawyer in California. Or was it Nigeria?

Damnit dude, now I am going to have to take down my website, Malachipoops.com.

My Chia Pet sued me because I intercepted a communicae between it and the ficus rubber plant in the hallway.

The plants were taken from me and placed in foster care.

Whoops there goes another rubber tree plant!

I lost the case, and you are all insane.

OOO rimblepoops.com sound rather catchy. I'm not FIC though so I don't get parody websites created about me

I think you should just redirect it to onkatesfloor.com.

Random thought: (I like doing these in the middle of discussions that miss possible profitable ventures....)

What if someone created a key/cypher system based off your avatar key and using an outside-SL algorithm to encrypt various means of communication, such that if anyone, including LL, were to look at it, all they see is a jumble of nonsense, but to people with the right key, to read the message?

Would this then violate the ToS as it stands, since LL would be reading what you were sending (You'd technically be sending gobbity-goop text.)?

Am I a lawyer? No, but my company is a system integrator for information systems for financial institutions, I am very familiar with security and privacy issues required in the financial industry in the United States. I am familiar with the law, however, I consult a lawyer regularly regarding specific compliance issues. In short, I know enough to enlist expertise in an area where it is needed.

So, what are your qualifications? Are you a lawyer? Feel free to find the exception in privacy law that allows a game operator to monitor private messages.

"unknown reason"? My reason is that imo you're misreading the last line. You say they can only get involved "as a consequence of repairing or protecting that specific piece of equipment". But "service quality" goes beyond equipment imo. If someone causes the simulation to crash, then the quality of the service is being degraded (which I assume was the supposed intent of the individual involved).

.

This isn't funny - it's shrubbery robbery!

I raised them from seedlings and gave them the tools to communicate!

You can always vote with your feet and leave if you don't like someone having the right to read your IMs. Or you can conduct IMs like that over another service, like Yahoo or AIM. You agreed to the ToS just like the rest of us. Improve your behavior, stop the silly griefing, or ship out, please.

-Flip