Irish Gay Group Banned From St. Patty's Day Parade...Again

It disturbs me the amount of people in here suspecting me of some ulterior motive. Pay attention to my posts and you will see that I have never had any anti-homosexual bent.

I've posted my whole position on homosexuality in other threads so I'll hit the highlights here.

1. It's a sin-but no different than any sin I commit from day to day.
2. Homosexuals should be afforded all the rights of any other American.
3. I am opposed to gay marriage because I believe that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman.
4. I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to serve openly in our military.

I attend functions with homosexuals. I have homosexual friends.

And I think if they want to march in a St. Patty's day parade that is supposed to celebrate ALL Irish-American culture down a public street, they damn well shouldn't have to hide.

But, hey, that's just me.



Guess you just don't know me as well as you thought.

-Kiamat Dusk

I mostly agree with that, but I can understand why parade organizers might want to exclude things that they think have activist motives (right or wrong... the point being that I think it's incorrect to assume that it's bigotry without considering that they might just want to keep the parade non-political). Personally I find excessive celebration of ethnicity, religion, race, party affiliation, sexual orientation or any of the other things that divide us into little exclusive clubs to be somewhat annoying. The sooner we let go of antiquated ritualized herd behavior the sooner we can start acting like we're all equals.

The problem with this isn't gays not being allowed to Match in a freakin' Irish Parade.

The problem is the observation that Gays marching in an Irish Parade is like Nazis marching in an Israeli Parade.

I didn't realize Gays were the mortal enemy of The Irish.

Then EVERYBODY in the parade should simply march as Irish people -- one big ol' sea of green, folks arm in arm, having a good time... no banners, no groups, no organizations.

(hmmm, but then, on further thought, why have an Irish parade at all... if, in fact, we're all human...)

The problem is that they were excluded soley based on their sexual preference. The greater problem was unmasked by the chairman's choice of analogies.

BTW..NY is a Democratic state, right? Where's Hilary's voice in all this? Are you writing any letters, Kendra?

-Kiamat Dusk

Good question

In fact not only did I do that -- I was one of the protesters.

I've written both my Senators. My mayor and my Congresswoman.

And you're quite right, Kiamat --The biggest problem and the cause of the protest was the analogies.

Gays have never been allowed to march as Gays in the St, Patty's Day Parade --I actually don't have a problem with that. I had BIG problems with the analogy.

That I agree with. It was a truly stupid thing to say.

Ahhh, I see, so black people are flaunting their blackness just by existing?


I am human everyday. Some days I want to say, "Man, I have the Itis." and not have to explain what itis is.

You don't "humanize" people by denying their differences.

Well, I always thought Friends wasn't racist, but just grossly unrealistic. NYC is not all WASPy, unless it is on NBC. Fraiser had more diversity, lol.

Damn Chippy you stole the words right out of my mouth.

Briana Dawson

While true the same thing could be said of the show 'Martin.'

while not a big fan of "Friends", and certainly I saw it as unrealistic --How was it "waspy"?

Rachel, Monica and Ross were Jewish.
Joey was Italian
Phoebe and Chandler I think were the only Wasps

What show is that?

I have only seen like 2 episodes, so you are probably right. I just know when I am in NYC, it doesn't look like that.

It was a god awful show starring Martin Lawrence. The less said about it --the better.

My point was more a cultural balance one, with diversity, not on the (horrid) shows value otherwise. Friends had few blacks, its true..but if I recall right, 'Martin' never had any whites at all.

Why are we arguing about crappy television anyway? Ohh Chip hates BET, well join the club. Chip do you have a problem with Lifetime or Oxygen?

No, but you don't end racism by being racist, either.

I live in NYC --I'll let ya know if Television EVER gets it right, though I've grown fond of CSI NY the accents on it make me laugh my ass off.

On second thought King Of Queens does a fair job on Queens, and it's quite racially diverse.

But they don't and that's the point.

Yep, and Spike too, and idiotic things like "the man show." I think people should decide for themselves what appeals to them instead of being told by society or markerting people what they're supposed to like.

They don't because heterosexuals aren't carrying signs proclaiming their heterosexuality when it's irrelevant, and in the context of a SPD parade, it is.

There is a huge difference between racism, which is about exclusion and oppression of people, and recognizing the diverse cultural and racial differences of human beings. To deny that people have some fundamental differences is just silly - we are not one homogenous race of people, and it is both our sameness and our diversity that makes us who we are. The various cultures and ethincities that we have throughout the world are a thing of beauty that should be preserved, instead of trying to pander to the lowest common denominator and pretend we are all the same.

Once again you go back to "why is there Black Entertainment Television, and Miss Black USA, and GLBT anything???". You always miss the fundamental reason why these things exist. People who have been oppressed, who have been told they are worthless and don't belong and don't matter and that who and what they are is wrong have an inate psychological and emotional need to be with others who are experiencing the same thing, and to use the thing they are being oppressed by as a banner of pride instead. Black Entertainment Television came about at a time when every single station was White Entertainment Television - none of the programs represented black people at all - not their lives, their realities, their cuture. The same for the rise in so many Hispanic channels, and why you now have a gay network like LOGO.

I don't know what perfect pretend world you live in Chip, but the reality is that unless you are a white heterosexual in America, you are a second class citizen. It is slowly changing thanks to the political clout of many groups that fight like hell, proudly, to have other voices represented in this country. I doubt we will ever reach a point where you won't need things like BET, LOGO, etc.. - there is enough diversity of the human experience that celebrating that is not a bad thing. Sometimes gay people just want to watch a show where all the characters are gay. Straight people have enjoyed that forever - with the exception of one or two characters here and there, it has also always been Straight Entertainment Television. The more diverse the voices and experiences that can be represented, the better.

Ultimately, those channels become less about providing a source of pride and representation for people and more about just a channel catering to particular interests - and that is a good thing. When being gay or being black or being transgendered reaches the innocuousness of liking history or gardening or cooking, then real progress has been made. Until then, there is a desperate continued need for all voices to be heard, not just the approved ones.