Religion Roll-Call!

Not necessarily true. Atheism, literally translated, means "godless" but that can be taken either as denying the existence of said gods, or simply not having any beliefs in gods. There is a difference. Personally, I find no rational reason or proof that gods are required for the universe to exist as it is - thus belief, to me, is irrational and unnecessary. It's almost an agnostic view in that I am open to further evidence. I just don't think it's important for me to be a moral person or for the universe to work.

I didn't vote in the poll because I thought it was superficial and inaccurate. You can't lump people's beliefs together like that, not even atheists. For every 10 atheists you're probably going to find 8 different ways to define it. Christian sects can't even agree on things like the Virgin Birth and the nature of the Trinity.

Belief is far too much of a personal thing to categorize like this. I guess this means I don't believe in polls?

Agnostic (sp?)

I don't beleive that there is no possible way for some master puppeteer in the sky to exist, and I do submit to the theory that we could have crawled out of the sea and go from there. But of course, I'll truly beleive if I see.

[pet peeve]That is not correct, sorry. The vast majority of atheists are disbelievers for the exact same reason: insufficient proof. Claiming to know with absolute certainy there is no god isn't a rational position. You are, in fact, an atheist. There are gnostic and agnostic theists and atheists. I'm afraid you have to pick one from both categories.[/pet peeve]

We use the dictionary to define words so we can all agree to a meaning. The dictionary defines ...

a·the·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

As opposed to this...

ag·nos·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-nstk)
n.

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

As we can clearly see, atheist is one who "disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."

And agnostic is one who "believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God, is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism."

It's called the CYA clause for "atheists in denial"

The term agnosticism was coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869. Guess what they were called prior to that? Atheists.

Or, in your case, to try to support a point you've been caught on.

Rather than spout the simplistic single-line synopsis of a dictionary, why not try to actually get at the truth?

From Infidels.org (a real, bona fide atheist site):



I know what I believe/don't believe, and it has no relationship to the strawman definitions you're so fond of. Maybe I should do the same thing to your beliefs? Would you like that?

If you want to be misunderstood, as to your real meaning, feel free to use words in a way most people don't use or accept. I prefer to use words that identify what I mean.

If I want to convey that I don't believe in God or deny His existence I would use the well accepted term "atheist". And if I want to convey the message I am not sure, or that I'm sceptical of there being a God I would use the well accepted term "Agnostic". Everyone will understand me that way.

I wonder if everyone in the world disregards the dictionary to fit their agenda?

English your second language, Kevn?

No, it's my first. Editing mistake. Was a nerve exposed, I haven't see you reduced to attacking grammer before.

Not attacking. It just made me laugh.

I'm glad I provided you with some comic relief.

No, you want to turn to a dictionary's one-liners to try to stick a group of people in your little category.


If I want to convey that I believe every last adjective in the Bible is 100% dictated by God, I would use the word "Christian", right?

No, of course not -- some Christians might believe that, but not all. You're still cutting corners trying to make up convenient little definitions. I'm only telling you that your definition skips over a lot of meaningful thought. Some atheists believe there is no god -- but they are also just as likely to have NO beliefs in gods at all (like me). If the difference is too hard for you to grasp, I can't help you. To us, it's an important distinction.


I wonder if everyone in the world uses the dictionary to try to score cheap points in internet debates? From my own experience, dictionaries only give us a quick glance at superficial meanings. They never enlighten us as to anything deeper. So if you were after superficial meanings, you found one I guess.

Quote:-
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Satanists don't believe in Satan
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There are 3 forms of satanism

-=-
Christian Satanists do beleive in a form of satan - an antichrist - and are a split group of christianity, they withhold the beleif that god created the world to torture us into things that is not natural (not to obey the 4 basic instincts) and beleive that satan (the christian form) with take them to a orgy of sex,violence and greed, and is the extremly rare form of satanism that is not accepted nor condoned by virtually any other relegion including pure satanists
-=-
-=-
Religious Satanism, As Vexen Crabtree has written:

"Satanism is Satanism not due to our worship of any deity, but for the philosophy that we stand for. We recognize ourselves as gods, and we hold our own perspective on life as holy and revere our own experiences as the only truth we can ever know. "

"Satanism is the utter rejection of the spiritual way of theistic religions, and the honest admittence [sic] that we are just animals who evolve as any other complex system."

Its a form of beleif that you yourself are your redemeer, you are your own power, responsible for your own life and should be able to participate in the 7 deadly sins (with concenting adults), that each individual is their own
-=-
-=-
There is also one more, more well known thanks to its creater Anton LaVey, This church is an offshoot of the above version of satanism and has more emphisis on the 'you are your own diety', meaning you should remember that you are your own power and should enforce it, some rules of behavior include..

+ Prayer is useless; it distracts people from useful activity.
+ Ritual killing (of humans or animals) violates Satanic principles. Blood drawn from a victim is useless. Victims are killed symbolically, not actually.
+ Members enjoy indulgence instead of abstinence. They practice with joy all the seven deadly Christian sins (greed, pride, envy, anger, gluttony, lust and sloth)
+ If a man smites you on one cheek, smash him on the other.
+ Do unto others as they do onto you. This is the CoS' version of an Ethic of Reciprocity.
+ Engage in sexual activity freely, in accordance with your needs (which may be best realized either through monogamy, or by having sex with many others; through heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality; using sexual fetishes as you wish; by yourself or with one or more consenting adults). The ideal is a monogamous relationship based on compatibility and commitment.
+ Suicide is actively discouraged.
+ The Satanist needs no elaborate, detailed list of rules of behavior.
+ Membership in the CoS is limited to adults of legal age, unless a teenager obtains the written permission and attendance of their parent or legal guardian
-=-

these 3 forms of Satanism is often confused with Wiccan relegions when infact the church of satanism dispise the wiccan beleif of use of Magick should only be used for good - insted of to help the good and punish the evil.

the Relegious satanist form of satanism Pre-dates christianity and, as such, do not belive in a devil or antichrist (althou the church of satanism refers to Satan, Lucifer, Belial and Leviathan, they dont mean a living entity but a form of nature - as followed by various other pagan relegions)

it is true they do not beleive in satan as a living entity (as the church has created) but they do beleive in satan as a form of nature - a way of life and usually this 'form' contradicts most of the christian veiws of what satan is.

The term Christian doesn't suggest anything about what a person accepts from the Bible. Christians differ in how they read it as well, some accept it as literal, some don't, etc etc.

You might say the term "Christian" means believer/follower of Jesus' teachings. But nothing according to the term says anything about how one interprets the Bible.

We are talking about religions, so in this case we mean Religious Satanism.

What do you mean Christian AND Mormon? how about Christians who are not Mormon?

Exactly. And "atheist" does not automatically mean someone who claims there is no god.

I'm glad you're catching on, Kevn.

According to all the dictionaries it means one who denies or disbelieves in a God or gods. Feel free to provide a dictionary post suggesting all Christians believe every last adjective in the Bible is 100% dictated by God.

Feel free to provide a creditable source that claims all atheists assert there is no god. If you can't do any better than a dictionary, don't even bother.

I already gave you a link correcting your misconception regarding atheism, and it was from an informative atheist information site no less. Meanwhile you're off chasing my rhetorical devices and completely lose the focus of this discussion. I had no idea you were that easily distracted.

Besides, Richie and I are still waiting on your "evidence" of a global flood over in the Noah thread. Since you're losing so badly here maybe you need to switch horses.

If you haven't already and you read non-fiction at all get a copy of "The Blind Watchmaker" written by Richard Dawkins.

I've read a lot of books on the universe, theory of everything, etc. over the years and that book is the one that has pushed me the farthest along the path of understanding how we could go from single celled organism to human without a MC of the universe. He does a great job of explaining evolution and all aspects without going into overly gory technical detail and providing plenty of analogies to make the concepts easier to understand.

One interesting thing he explains is that belief in God can appear in a population and through natural selection/evolution it can be further reenforced until you have people that believe in a God not because there is God, but because it enhances their chances of survival by some small amount.

I'm mainly playing devils advocate here since I'm still on the fence and still currently believe in a higher power but one of the main arguments for a God I have heard is that all major populations of humans have religion and most of them believe in something they cannot prove or see.

I have heard different people state that this equates to proof that God exists, when what it really equates to is that believing in God gives you some slightly higher chance of survival so eventually it might propigate into all populations of humans whether from "cultural evolution" (meaning culture based - like knowledge and writing) or from real evolution.

It doesn't take a God to believe in god, it just takes that belief in God making you more likely to survive and reproduce.

-Alan

Speaking of Richard Dawkins, interesting video called 'The Root Of All Evil'.

-Ghoti

Atheism isn't a belief or system of belief, because if there were no religion, the issue just would not arise. Atheism is a *response* to religious belief.

this has some really strange groupings, satanism and nihilism? islamic or hindu? lol they don't even typically like each other if I remember correctly.

Hinduism of the Aryan people being the oldest religion is a source for Buddhism. Can also be grouped with Jainism.

The groupings should put Islam and Christianity together, as they are essentially of the same origin and similarly recent religions. Many from the western world confuse Islam with Hinduism for the silliest of reasons. Wearing turbans, for example. Some Punjabs were subjected to hate crimes post 9/11 even though they were hindus.