Attention : Windows Genuine Advantage = Spyware

The (lamely) animal named releases *are* the point releases.

The latest is Tiger or 10.4.
10.3 and 10.2 are the various other spotted and or striped feline releases.

When you get the computer it has whatever is the latest one on it. All updates of that software are seamless and free over the net. The only time you would want to buy the new point release is if you bought your computer only just before it came out. then generally, your computer *could* run it efficiently, but you just missed it because of timing. there is hardly ever a good reason to install 10.4 on a computer that originally come with 10.3 because the feature set is not really that different and you would need more memory and a faster processor anyway so it would really hobble your computer to do it in most cases.

Edit: I think you might be right about the iLife apps, but again, I have yet to hear of anyone who upgraded them. mac users just don't upgrade in general. Most fail to even bother with the automatic software updating of their OS. It's a generalisation, but most Mac users are into having a computer that you just buy, and use and then five years later you buy another one. They don't like "fiddling" with it.

Ok to clarify a couple of things - Mac users get security updates for free. If you had 10.2, you don't get the upgrade to the features of 10.3 and 10.4 for free - you have to buy each release. Also, Microsoft's OS updates are also seamless and free.

Also, don't certain Mac apps require a certain point release of MacOS X?

That's fair.

And much of that is, as you put it, a clear difference in thinking. Computers as disposable items, however wasteful that might be, is precisely why Dell, Apple, and other OEM PC vendors do so well. Stability and choice are sacrificed in favor of the little black box. Which seems to work for most people.

The unfortunate thing is, these are the people that get hurt when those selling the little black box decide to get greedy. Which seems to be exactly what is now happening.


I'da know. In a way, I advocate understanding computers at some level, which is probably why I lean toward getting the most out of what I own. Ignorance is nice, and sells, but when it comes right down to it, these things should just be simple.


So the market must pick its poison. Live with spyware, ignorant, as is the case with most users of Windows. Move to OSX and live with security by obscurity and a lesser evil. Or force yourself to become a geek on some level and use your software intelligently.

Yeah that's pretty much it, except to call it a security update is not quite right. Only about (rough guess) 10% of the updates are security patches.

Generally no. At least that's not the plan. That being said sometimes this is going to be the case, just like with Windows. For instance if you have one of those (now ancient) candy coloured imacs running 10.1 at a blistering speed of 300Mhz with 256 MB of memory, you certainly cannot upgrade to tiger, and some of Tiger software will not run even slowly on your machine.

Apple is a good, kind and moral company so if sometimes you need to upgrade then it's certain that it's not their fault and that they did everything to avoid it. Microsoft on the other hand is an evil immoral company, so when you need to upgrade Windows, it's because they are screwing you on purpose just for the money.

I am sure the small business owners that Apple has repeatedly screwed over don't think of Apple so kindly. Face it, both companies exist to make money. To attribute "morality" to either company is just silly. Apple is makes excellent products and has great marketing, but at the end of the day they are still a cutthroat company out to make money. Microsoft also makes excellent products and has far more diverse offerings than Apple does - their software covers the entire spectrum of the computer industry, not just a desktop OS and a few apps.

Microsoft certainly has abused its power, but then again, power does corrupt. You actually see an interesting sea change happening now with Google. Originally everyone loved Google, they were the little company that could - now they are growing and changing and are the new scary Evil Empire. Apple's behavior in the single market where it is dominant is quite anti-competitive. When you are on top, there is no incentive to play well with others.

Case in point:
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=14915

It will be interesting to see how Apple handles it. They made a touchy-feely public statement, but it remains to be seen if they dump the supplier.

Good, kind, and moral? BULL! Tell that to all of us who owned an Apple 2GS back in the day. They just dropped the system, literally overnight, to 'concentrate on the Apple Macintosh'. The one that just happened to be the more expensive computer, and wasn't selling as well as the 2GS. Apple permanently lost me as a customer that day.

This is why you make sure you use a friendly distro like Ubuntu, and then you just put in the install cd (alternately Knoppix is a great live cd distro) and boot it live. You're back up and looking for help as long as it's not a hardware problem keeping you down. I use live cd's to fix windows problems for many people as well, or at least to be able to retrieve data for the usual reinstall after a lethal dose of "teh nasties".

If you've installed Linux for a non-techie, like mom, for instance, it's real easy because YOU are then the admin, not them (non-techies should be admin of NOTHING), so then they can't screw up their install in the first place. I did it for my 60yr old mom, as long as she knows where the "buttons" for email and solitaire are, she's good. She had the pc for the last 5 years, and only in the last year, after I installed Linux, has she been able to keep it up long enough for it to be useful. I live 6 hours away, and can't be on call every time windows decides to pout (then again, I've got plenty of friends that live near me that I have to do that for).

The ONLY good use I have for XP is to play games that are not accessible by other means, whether console, emulator, or other.

My parents are capable of performing day to day fixes and tuneups with Windows without calling me, or at most it's something I can fix with a few minutes on the phone. This would NOT be the case with linux - And, sorry, I don't accept the "Well, just give them a live CD and no admin access" - it's their computer. I'm not going to treat them like morons. I already said they aren't stupid. By helping them a little with the basics of windows, I'm teaching them to actually think, learn more, and improve - your way trains rote behavior that accomplishes nothing in the long run.

Hehe.

Way to carry a twenty year grudge!

I have never joined the RAC (Royal Automobile Club - a breakdown service for motorists) since I was called a liar by one of their customer service people round about 35 years ago.

Well, indeed, that much is clear. But it certainly wasn't a fly-by-night outfit as that alt implied.

I recently got that message regarding that software on my current updates from MicroSoft.

I just disregarded the download for that. Tho it kept bugging me. So I said ignore any further requests.

Dont download it period. Saves ya aggravation

Good for you. Mine aren't. If my mom needs something done to her system, she gives me a call and I SSH into it and do whatever is needed. Their computer *is* an appliance, not a hobby. My way gives them that, that they would not have otherwise because they simply wouldn't do anything with it.

You stated that online help is no good if you can't boot the machine, I offered a super simple way to boot the machine. I don't see the problem.

If you're stupid enough to use ANY microsoft product, you deserve what you get.

I don't see what all the fuss is - it's simple as that.

due to the software I use at work I have no choice, so I'm stupid?

You assume more than is healthy.

I rate this particular troll a 2.37 on a scale of 1-10. You insult this crowd by your meager attempt.

I mean take another posters lead and do something more like, If you are morally unclean and of low intellect that you might stoop to dance with the Satan and use a Microsoft product then you shall reapest what thou sows.

At least that is more colorful and full of flare.

Would this be a bad time to point out to all of the OSX-bashers in this thread that OSX is nothing more than a customized version of linux, built on custom hardware? Same engine is under the hood, folks. OSX simply has a nicer exterior than most nix distros.

Don't even get me started on the evils of DRM. AFAIC, draconian DRM polices should be illegal, the companies behind said DRM don't deserve a cent from their "music", and the only two outfits who are doing things RIGHT, are emusic and allofmp3. If allofmp3 would maybe raise their prices a touch, they could probably afford to pay royalties and go legal. I'd even be willing to pay a bit beyond itunes prices, if i could pay by the megabyte and pick my own format like that.

And you can spin this however you want, apple has historically been the most innovative OS company that exists. Take a look at the leap between each system.. 7, 8, 9, and now X and its point releases. Each added new features and ease of use. Now look at windows. The core has changed, yes, but the last major change in windows was the jump from 3.1 to 95. (ease of use, stability, total GUI rewrite, etc).
A new (unstable) version of a media player? Oh joy. And let's bundle a drm infested over priced music store along with it. Pffft.
Antispyware program? Yet another too-late fix for a problem mac/nix users don't have to even REMOTELY think about.
Lets not forget that apple's OS's are generally rock-solid. Windows can crash from just sitting there and choking on its own memory allocation. Usually if a mac crashes, its because of a poorly written app. My mini crashed for the FIRST TIME today in the half a year i've had it. My windows box usually takes a restart a day to keep it running without issues.

I guess my main problem with microsoft is that they busted their asses to get to #1, and are now content to just sit on their monopoly. Lazy bastards.



You've failed your troll entrance exam. Come see me after class.

Nobody has been, to my knowledge, bashing OSX.

Windows, yes, every other poster, but OSX? Hadn't noticed.



Uh... Again, I think your comparing lemons to limes.



Security Through Obscurity. Yay.



That's your fault. I keep my desktop running for a week+ before I even think of restarting, and normally when I do its to configure some app that needs it. The days of windows crashing by looking at it funny are in the past if your reasonably competent with windows.

I'm suprised that you're making this statement about any open source Unix-based system. Darwin, the kernel running under and powering OS X's prettyness is regularly worked on by hundreds, if not thousands of developers around the world. Linux, as the most popular of these opensource operating systems (in terms of diverse developer commitment) refutes
your statement to an even greater degree.

Programs shouldnt be given the rights to run willy-nilly all over the system. Linux solves this problem effectively with its root | user privelage division. Of course, this doesn't stop social engineers from manipulating people into installing their malicious program, but then PEBKAC; the manipulated users need to become more knowledeable.
==Chris

It IS a legal music service! It pays royalties to the Russian 'MPAA/RIAA/Whatever'. It's legal to operate in Russia, and it's legal for them to export the music. And it's currently legal for other countries (like USA, European, etc) to download the music.

BTW, how do you know 'Urge' is more legal than Allofmp3? Did you see their money bank accounts, transfers, have you talked to their accountants?



Just purchase MP3, and you can play it on 100% of the players out there. iPod has 70% of the market, so it's not nice to say 'the thing that iPod users are out of luck is not Microsoft's issue'. In a way, not, but where else could an iPod user get music from than iTunes and Allofmp3.com? (Not counting smaller stores that sell in mp3.)

Hmm we're kinda getting off-topic a bit, but hey, this is the sandbox

Allofmp3 DOES pay the royalties:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/07/bpi_sues_allofmp3/


And to cut the Linux thread real short:
- Is Linux ready for everyone who has a PC today? No, I don't think so.
- Is it an option worth considering, mainly in company and many home environments? Yes, and it can potentially save much cost and work better, depending on needs/tasks.
- Is there support? Yes, but you have to pay for it, maybe even more than Windows, if you can't find a cheaper support partner.
For example: http://www.canonical.com/support (Ubuntu support)

And the bonus question:
- If you have an OEM version of Windows XP, are you eligible to phone Microsoft to ask for support?
*bzzzzz* No! You get no support from Microsoft!



Okay, thread done

Wrong:

http://www.ifpi.org/site-content/press/20060601.html




The same way iTunes is a legal service, as is Napster, Rhapsody, Yahoo Music, etc.. They have established licenses with the record companies to sell their music online, and in the cases of other sites besides iTunes, the ability to offer music on a subscription basis. In exchange for this license, the music is sold with restrictions in place to prevent unlimited distribution.



This paragraph doesn't make a whole lot of sense. However, if you feel good about paying a few cents per song to a Russian site that does not give money back to the artists (thus making you knowingly complicit in theft), knock yourself out. I do value music artists, and have no problem paying for the music I buy. I have bought hundreds of songs from iTunes and then from other stores once they came out. I also subscribe to both Rhapsody and now Urge as well. AllofMP3 does nothing but hurt music artists. If you were serious about getting MP3s for your iPod, then buy the songs from iTunes and burn them to a CD and rerip them, or use one of the tools available to remove the DRM.