Attention : Windows Genuine Advantage = Spyware

Not quite the same, in fairness.

An OEM version really IS windows. It's a theoreticly 'legit' copy. It's just that some computer stores sell them directly, which isn't how it's supposed to be sold... its only supposed to be sold with an entire system.

Good, please don't, I would rather have this discussion with someone who can actually discuss both sides of something without just dismissing everything out of hand as sucking.

I can go on about developments in OS X for a while, but it simply isn't the point.

The fact is that the user experience of XP has not changed for five years. This isn't about "oh well Apple are shit", this isn't some dumb Slashdot advocacy rant.

Why should the "user experience" change? The essense of good OS design is getting the user experience right - And windows has done a pretty good job of that. Vista's "user experience" is about the same too - they've streamlined a few things, but the basic system is very similar to XP.

Coincidently, the basic user experience for OSX has been pretty consistant between the versions too - a few things get added, but nothing that really shatters any preconcieved notions or changes how the average end-user does things.*

*I don't own a mac. I do _use_ macs, however.

The user experience should change to get better.

I think, personally, that OS X has improved on that... but my opinions aren't very important on the subject. I don't think that OS X is a useful example apart from to demonstrate that, you know, other people can write OSes. The fact is though that there just hasn't been any user development in XP at all, and unless you think XP is perfect as it is, that means it could do better (or anything).

I can't tell the difference between the XP Home CD that I bought five years ago and an "updated" version. You can't surely claim that that is development.

But that's just not true. It absolutely has improved. In smaller, more subtle ways perhaps than OSX, but it absolutely, 100% has improved. I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference, but I most assuredly CAN tell the difference... I just got done reinstalling my laptop, and there is a world of difference between a virgin, off-the-CD install and a finalized, running install of XP at this point.

When I was a lad, they used to be able to squeeze an entire wimp based OS into just 256K. Now we're lucky to see an operating system fit into 256 meg without complaining about blisters.

Other than their software being too fat, I'm a big fan of Microsoft. They make good stuff. I also feel sorry for them, with the "law" constantly kicking their bum for being too successful. It's their software, they should be allowed to add whatever they bloody well like to it.

"stop improving your software, you're making all the other software companies look crap"



Don't go Billy!

The thing is though, iTunes does not make it possible for a media stream to virally open a browser, take you to a web site, reset your toolbar, install a virus, spyware etc etc. etc.

It just plays music and video streams and does a really really good clean job of it.

It's not that windows can't do stuff, its just that it tacks all that other crap onto it and leaves all the security wide open so any griefer can attack your system. and sometimes the griefer is MS itself.

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying about the bundling, but it seems like you are arguing that the bundled apps cost more on a Mac? (they don't).

You are forgetting that the only reason things like Windows Movie Maker even exist is because Apple started bundling movie software with the OS and MS had to compete or die. Here it is 6 or so years after the introduction of iMovie (for free) on Macs, and windows Movie Maker is *almost* up to the same level.

Besides which, this whole thread is about the poor ethics and the deceitful heuristics that MS uses to design their products, not the products themselves. You can find software on almost any platform that does the job and which does it 'better" is kind of subjective.

I won't use MS products simply because they have no morals and would rather force the user to their way of thinking than provide the user with something they actually want in the first place. That poor attitude of theirs won't change even if they make the best software in the world.

Did you write that post on your Tablet?. It would've taken me a day to write that post on a tablet!

That's not fair. I heard that MS Paint was a devout christian. Although there is definitely something fishy about that Wordpad.

Interesting read! This is the first forum I have ever been on where the majority defend microsoft. People are usually lining up to get the boot in!

I'd love to see an even more affordable version of windows for home users though, a £140 XP retail hit me hard!. Adobe managed it with photoshop elements.

Well, call me back when Urge can do as much as Allofmp3.com.
I can have my music downloaded in MP3, Ogg Vorbis, or lossless audio (CD quality), for an affordable price. How does Urge compare?

Can I put WMA downloaded from Urge on my iPod? Will it play?



Well, for me the only reason I actually bought Windows is the games, and most of all, Second Life.

It's inherent and automatic, from the time I installed the beast

BTW, I installed VNC to be able to administer my PC remotely, and Windows Defender (MS Anti Spyware) mistook it as a malicious program, and wiped it... d'oh... Then I found a way to put it in an exception list.



Profit?

But seriously, I use both Ubuntu Linux and Windows XP SP2.. And even though some things are still harder in Linux (though Ubuntu is getting real real friendly) i just LOVE Ubuntu and would prefer to use only that, if possible. It's lovely, and it 'just works'!

Linux has still some steps to take in the future, there are areas for improvement, but it's already looking so good.

AllOfmp3.com is not a legal music service, so it is ridiculous to try to compare the two.




Nope, but that is not Microsoft's issue. Apple will not support any DRM but their own, and will not let any other device play their DRMed files. I can however play the WMA purchased from any of a number of stores on many different devices. You can also download millions of songs as part of subscription services. I'm not locked into one store and one device to purchase music from legally. That is not the case with the iTunes/iPod combo. AllOfMp3.com does not count.

Although this is kind of true, its also kind of misleading the way you have phrased it IMO.

The thing is, you don't need to upgrade to the new point version. It's not like XP where if you did not upgrade, all your software would stop working. The point release is tuned to the hardware released at the same time.

When you buy a Mac you are buying the OS at the same time and you get the latest point release of the software. All updates to the software you bought when you bought the computer are automatic, free and flawless. If you are such a keener that you *want* to install the latest new point release on your older computer (even though it's rarely recommended), they you have to buy it again.

I for one have rarely heard of *anyone* actually buying a point release upgrade of the OS. I can't think why you would want or need to.

The Apple model is to tie the OS to the hardware and give you free upgrades until the point at which you will probably be wanting a new computer anyway (5 years or so).

Did I say I bought it off someone in the street?

It was bought from a legitimate high street computer store.

Next time don't make assumptions.

I'm not sure what OS your talking about, it's certainly not windows - I know people still quite happily running ME, 2000, un-upgraded XP, and even some holdouts running 98. Nothing has stopped working.



Microsoft calls them service packs, and doesn't charge for them.



Is that why there is a new, expensive version of OSX every time I turn around?

Until it just doesn't work, then you're just fucked unless your a Linux guru or happen to know one, because theres no hotline you can call that -gasp- actually helps a lot of people, criticism aside.

This is completely untrue. You are not forced to upgrade or your software will stop working - that is silly. My mom still has a computer with Windows 98 on it and all of the programs on it work perfectly fine. Also, nearly all XP software also runs on Windows 2000. I don't think it is realistic to expect that every new program will run on older versions of the OS, however - though many programs do still run fine on Windows 9x systems. MacOS X native programs don't run on older versions of the OS either.



So people don't upgrade to things like Tiger or whatever the current animal named point release is? They keep the same version of the MacOS that they got with their computer? They don't get those updates for free. That is what I am referring to - they are priced like full OS releases, but are not fully brand new OSes each time. Microsoft also has updated all of the major applications that come with Windows XP, for free. If you are referring to the iLife apps, the last time I checked, there was a yearly fee on them - the updates are not free. Am I wrong about that?

Or not so legit, if they are selling OEM versions of the OS against their agreement with MS.

Actually....

One of the perks of Gentoo Linux, and Ubuntu, is the incredibly good documentation and support. There's no hotline, but they do have an IRC channel you can go to and foist your problems. That is, if the forums or wiki don't solve them first (as they commonly do via Google).


True, there is very little hand-holding. But in terms of support, there is far more than just RTFM.


This is how I've solved my own problems with Gentoo.


----

This was written years ago, yet it's still so true:
http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/ossuckscable.html~content

For the record, I qualify as "elitist nerdy schmuck."

This is precisely why I will never support any DRM'ed content, and why I don't shop from itunes or microsoft's spinoff. All my audio-playing devices should work with my music files, whether or not the manufacturer of the audio device has an agreement with Microsoft.

Ive not done a great deal of research into online music services...are there any legal alternatives to allofmp3.com that allow you to download mp3/ogg/lossless files at any price?
==Chris

None of which helps my mother when her computer doesn't boot up. Or, for that matter, ME, if my computer doesnt boot up

For that matter: are those hotlines really that helpful?


I see what you're saying though, and yeah. You don't get someone obligated to help you, or a warranty for that matter. It's perfectly reasonable to want one when stuff doesn't work.

Which is something you'll almost assuredly not get with a free OS.

Well, it's not even that, exactly.

Linux has to pass what I call the parents test. My parents aren't stupid people - but they aren't techno-lingual. If you ask them to work in a text-based interface, they aren't going to have much luck. Long strings of text and drivers that have seemingly random or "cute" (to technies) names just to get things like DVDs to play or wireless networking to work isn't going to cut it.

A few commercial companies are getting closer. Lindows was a nice try. Mandrake is getting there, slowly. But it wont be a viable alternative to windows for a long time yet for most people, if ever.

OSX, by contrast, is. Yes, it requires a new set of hardware - but most of "those people" see computers as basicly disposable anyhow. Maybe they will have their son put a new harddrive in or something, but they aren't going to to keep each part around as long as possible, moving from one machine to another as you slowly upgrade - they just don't work that way. They don't see a computer as a collection of connected but seperate parts, each working in union - it's an appliance for them, like a television. When you want new features, you buy a new one. So for them, OSX is a viable alternative.