Fox News vs. The Westboro Baptist Church

thanks for the info

As a Pagan, and someone who knows many, many other Pagans that post on this forum, I'd like to respectfully request you either post some proof of this claim, or please go self-fornicate with the salt-covered hide of a skinned porcupine.

Would you say you and your pagan friends are a majority? Also, are any of your friends "no-religion" homosexual pagans? Or are they all straight, "polytheistic religion" pagans?

Wow, you're uneducated. I say that not to insult, but to convey pity.

One cannot be without religion and be Pagan, considering that Paganism is an umbrella suiting many different beliefs. And WTF does sexuality have to do with it?

My point is that we, with other groups, make up a large enough portion of the population here that your percieved majority may not be. There's not just 2 or 3 slices to the pie here.

People, people, people. *shakes her head sadly*

I would think that by now you would have all realized what a waste of time it is to try and reason with Kevn.

Shame on all of you.

I'll try not to insult you, but let me educate you as to what a pagan is...

pa·gan ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pgn)
n.
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

As for sexuality, the point was that as a homosexual (especially one who isn't Christian), it's unlikely one will be objective. The fact you refused to say it says it all.

Nah, he just does that to irritate people, not out of rank ignorance. I do join you on the pity bit, though.

I didn't show "disdain for the right of unpopular speech", I merely said I wasn't surprised that you chose to criticize the reporter and not say anything about the statements made by the woman being interviewed. And you still haven't.

What an archaic definition! Which dictionary is that from?

Actually, it doesn't say anything, because I didn't say anything. I will say, however, that many (a majority, safely) of Neo-Pagans are straight, or at the very least, bisexual. Many of our belief systems focus strongly on the concept of a male and female partner coming together to create a child. It has to be adapted to suit homosexuality, though it does so smoothly.

Further, most of us were once Christian and know the Bible better than most Christians do. Our religions commonly teach objectivity and that no religion is wrong, but the actions of people can be destructive and generally bad in the name of their religions. By definition, a Pagan is more likely to be objective about Christianity than a Christian.

I'm afraid that we'd have to go to court again to have another unconstitutional law overturned. Freedom isn't subject to majority rule, it's guaranteed in the Constitution. The Founding Fathers warned us of the danger of the tyranny of the majority, that's why they set up our government to protect our rights, no matter what the majority at the voting booth decide.

It came from Dictionary.com

Who are these pagans you speak of? Is there a group that lists the names, so I can compare that to the names of the people I see in threads in which I participate? Do they tell you what they believe, as we see being "pagan" can mean many different things, all the way to "atheist". Or, a pagan could just be a non-Christian.

You say pagans are more objective about Christianity, is that because it's normal to think ones group is more objective than others? I think bigots think they are more objective than those whom they denounce too.

And tell me, Kevn, when we have words like "Athiest" and "Agnostic", what made you think that he meant your second definition when he defined himself as a pagan? When is the last time you heard anyone use "pagan" to mean #2?

Its one of the above, not ALL of the above. ALL of the above is mutually exclusive - 1 and 5 specificly mention other religions, for example, while 3 is ambiguous and 4 is just the oddball definition.





As opposed to a straight christian? Those are objective, right?

Actually I have lost a right. The right to marry. The Supreme Court of the state of Alaska ruled that all Alaskans had to right to marry. The voters of the state then amended the state's constitution to exclude gay couples from marrying.

But your argument is specious anyway. So a slave who has always been a slave can stay a slave because he hasn't lost any rights?

Kevn do you understand forgiveness? Forgiveness means forgiving and moving on, not forgiving and making snide comments. Or were you lying?

Let's use a reputable dictionary, because Dictionary.com will get an English major into deep shit.

(From Merriam-Webster, a.k.a. Webster's Dictionary)

Main Entry: pa·gan
Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : NEO-PAGAN
- pagan adjective
- pa·gan·ish /-g&-nish/ adjective


Note the word "and". It's not enough to be NonChristian to be Pagan, you must als be irreverent and "living it up" if you're not the religious definition of Pagan.

And it's not my responsibility to out fellow Pagans. It's how we keep from being burned, lynched, flamed, fired, beaten, picketed, etc. A rather long-standing practice, keeping in one piece, and thus we make it a point not to expose each other to hostility unnecessarily.


Edit: Additionally, it's not a matter of thinking we're being objective by some loyalty to a group, as you suggested. It's the fact that in our religious study, we often study Christianity objectively.

You are confusing pagan with Pagan. The first (pagan) is an adjective that means different things to different people. The second, Pagan, is used to refer to some one who is an adherent of a specific religious group, Paganism. It is a little like the word "god". Hermes is a god. But when somebody types "God", he's referring to the almighty creator of the universe. And I'm sure that somebody who is as concerned with the rights of the minority as you are, Kevn, would do his very best to be respectful of tiny, religious minorities like Pagans. Right?

No, because it's not a REAL religion.

Thank you for agreeing with me that being a pagan doesn't mean one necessarily believes in any god(s).

Now we can say your friends may or may not be homosexual/bisexual, and we can say they may or may not believe in any god(s).

And so you can write it down on your list, I'm a pagan, not a Pagan. As a Buddhist, I fall into the definition of pagan, since I am not a Christian or a Jew.

Do you mean....

Main Entry: neo-pa·gan
Pronunciation: -'pA-g&n
Function: noun
: a person who practices a contemporary form of paganism (as Wicca)
- neo-pagan adjective
- neo-pa·gan·ism /-'pA-g&-"ni-z&m/ noun

??

There is Pagan and there is pagan. Wiccans are Pagan. Neo-paganism isn't a term usually used by Pagans. They seem to prefer the term Pagan. As somebody so very, very concerned with the protection of the rights of people of faith, I am sure you will honor their wish and continue to show the deference and sensitivity that you, yourself desire.

--
Darned right, I don't need defending here!
And not because I'm part of some 'majority'.

I know Wiccans, they prefer to be called Wiccans. I know about their religion and practices. I find them much like Christians. They believe in supernatural beings too.

I sat through a ritual and asked questions to better inform myself of their beliefs. I find belief systems fascinating. I have not disrespected any belief system purposely.

Please don't assume I don't respect their religion.

No, you know a group of wiccans. It's not a unified, monolithic faith.

Nor are all "neo pagans", IE capital-P Pagans, wiccans - there are other faiths.

I'm not assuming anything. I've read enough of your posts to know that you don't respect other people's viewpoints, religious or otherwise.