Base skin problem.. moral issue..

Truth is there is excellent detasiled skins out there currently from 500 to 4k, personaly I own the 500-1k range really dopnt like the 4-6k skins because being a 3D developer I tend to notice to many extra highlited areas that just dont look good inmy opinion,more oke a roenout pair of Jeans, Chips have may advantages to them including the makeup but Chip has been ay this a long time and I still admire his skins although I dont wear one, and still rcecomend them as I do other places as well. SAkins are totally hte buyers choice and opinions.

The final deciaion is yours but remember Chips words, you may find yourself wanting to support yourself for tier fees as he does. Make your first step the wise one.

Many people will buy them on what they look like if they are easily affordable, I look at product first , price second. But I have brought a few skins for $1-2k and have either deleted them or given them away, the freebie skins I have still look better, so hence when I see a skin for $100-$500 I'll consider it, risking $4k to not look like me? Forget it.

Sure, that was an interesting read, but... why the necro-posting?

No idea whey this was bumped, but it is still an interesting thread. It's a bit outdated now though. At the time this thread was written I sold base skins for 4k and add-on makeups for $500 as long as you owned the skin already. I now sell all skins, including makeup versions, for $1000-$1500 with no discount for previous ownership. It's a direct result of market pressure and perceived value. Even though for people who like to have a lot of makeups the old pricing was a better deal, what the majority does in any given market shapes the expectations of the buying public and everyone else eventually has to fall in line or face irrelevance. The advice I gave in this thread still holds - think carefully about how you enter a market relative to your competition. Price wars hurt everyone in the long run, including the consumer.

Wow yes this is kind of old. In response to the original post....


I dont think itd kill the market, there will be people who dislike the skin and want to purchase from another creator.

There are also the people who have that "The more i pay for something, the cooler I am!!" personality which is ever so present in RL...it is here as well. And so, wouldnt wear an 100L skin.

If the skins got entirely popular, there will be those who will simply chose to not wear it because theyd get tired of everyone else having it, in which cases theyd buy.

And then of course theres the "who are you reaching" in the audience? Its impossible for every SLer to know who you are and that you have 100L skins, so youll reach your audience, and others, who chose to sell theirs for more, will reach theirs.

So if it's a necro-posting wonder what the outcome is, haven't seen any people in newbie clothes lately begging with "I used to be a skin designer" T-shirts

I thought I'd gone through the wayback machine when I saw the "Bump" on my last post here. Then I looked at the date on it. Jeez!

At the time, I thought the earlier half of this discussion was very interesting. It seems things have changed a bit (Chip selling skins for 1000-1500!) . It makes for an interesting chronology of the skin market.

I doubt that any skin maker will be found begging for handouts, even if the skin market were to vanish completely. Skinning skills are mostly Photoshop skills, some 3D painting, and modeling (shape creation) skills. There are plenty of markets for those skills in SL (and RL).

I've always based my skin pricing on the following in order of priority:

1. Difficulty of creation and detail in the end result
2. Quantity and variety of textures for sale in the skin kit (package)
3. What can be done with the skin (customization)

It's never been a matter of what the other guy is selling thiers for. Of course, if I don't sell any then that would be a good indicator that I need to adjust pricing. So far, that has not been the case.

I'm experimenting a bit to find the sweet spot. My old system where I sold makeups cheap if you already owned the skin was confusing to a lot of people and resulted in a lot of people buying makeup vouchers which then had to be refunded, and many buyers resented having to wait for the makeup skin. I decided to go to a direct sale system so I did some shopping around to check how others are pricing these days. It seemed a good opportunity to bring my prices more in line with others. It seems like a big price drop, and it is for anyone who just buys a single skin. For people who buy several makeup versions it's actually a price hike. I reserve the old high price for skin sets that come with a bunch of options in the box.

I may adjust prices again in the future after seeing how this effects sales over the next six months or so. If we ever get that extra texture layer so we can do overlays that users can apply themselves without us having to expose our textures I'll switch back to a pricing model more like my old one. We're pretty hamstrung by the limitations of the skin system.

I employ both methods at the moment. My newer skins have several options included in the kits and they sell for considerably more than the older skins (because of the number of textures and the level of detail). I plan to switch back over at some point to a custom system for all the skins, like I have with the older female skins, once enough options are developed and a few kinks (like different lip shapes) have been worked out. People seem to like the mix and match options that allow them to do what is otherwise impossible without generalized texture layers. The system is really just a placeholder until Linden Lab sees fit to upgrade the current texture layering system. I'm not holding my breath on this one any more unless a third party picks up where LL has left it.

I am very lucky that I have a skilled friend that I can trust with my raw skin textures. She handles all the custom orders for me (and collects 100% of the profits on all the vouchers sold). I get boosted sales through repeat and referred business, and freedom to devote 100% of my time to developing new skins and options for them. She gets a nice side business and brand recognition.

I think that most Second Life skins are quite over-priced. I make my observation based on textures I have/can purchase for use with various Poser figures. I can get some high-quality, detailed textures, with many options, that I can modify for use with Poser figures, and actually get full value out of the high resolution, for the same U.S. dollars or less than I can buy many Second Life textures that cannot be modified, do not have options (often sold as "extras", and are used in an environment in which graphic detail is limited and bandwidth is even more limited.

I create my own Second Life skins, and I have received compliments on them. It takes a lot of work and they are not "photo-realistic," but I don't really think I need photo-realism, and I like being able to tweak the skins when I get the notion.

For purposes of comparing SL skins to Poser figure textures: There are a lot of people who distribute high quality free textures. Despite that, there are a lot of people who make some money selling low-cost textures. If I'm looking for something specific that I can't find as a freebie, I'm willing to pay a little bit. And then there are a very few masters who sell textures for premium prices- because their textures are just that much better than the rest, they can sell them that high.

Offering some free skins, or low-priced ones, may be a good thing for the market. It will help set prices more accurately at the lower end. The top artists are probably going to be unconcerned, because they are not making their money on demand for skins, but on their artistry.

The main problem I see with that point of view is the assumption that it will end there. There will always be a natural inclination for new entrants to a market to price below existing products. Eventually it has to bottom out. In some ways I'm personally responsible for the way skins are priced in SL because I was the first person to start selling them way back in the day. I priced my first skins at $10000L. That seems downright crazy in today's market, but back then money worked much differently. People had high stipends, and most of the people on the grid had come from the beta and had more money than they knew what to do with. I also liked the idea that there were high end premium items that weren't easy to get. It made them rarer, and it made the owners more excited to obtain them. And at the time there were no other skins. Everyone still used the default skins.

That doesn't make as much sense now that money in SL is directly tied to real world money (it wasn't then) and the competition is vast and varied, but the impact of that choice I made years ago reverberated for a very long time. There's no reason to believe that someone coming from the opposite end and pricing extremely low couldn't also have the same kind of lasting impact in a way that could be detrimental to the market as a whole.

Well, i dont really remember how i stumbled across this post, but it was a very interesting read! Myself, and my business partner also struggle with pricing of things. Ive just started making skins and so far i have 4 types (A white/goth, a new 'species' type from some dark side in my brain... kinda elfish like.. And then 2 different "Tanned" skins)

We try to do things on the cheaper end of the side... Without going too cheap. When we first came into game, we had no money, but wanted everything lol. Also, when we would buy outfits, sometimes the fit wasnt right, or it didnt look how it was pictured, or whatever.

These are all things that we consider when making, and distributing products.

I saw one post on how they themselves price their products i think it was (Forgive me if i farble it)

1. Difficulty
2. How many varieties to the pack
3. Customization.


Thats basically how we price as well. But on the same side, what i see is difficult for me could be extremely easy for someone else.

Usually it takes me 2/3 good long days to create a new skin set. And my personal taste is that my upper and lower body, while its wearable, could use a little more help.

I see skins in the market that are GORGEOUS. And they go for 1,000L
When *I* Compare my skins to these skins that i find gorgeous, i feel that i should only charge 200, or less, because they are really my beginner skins, and i dont feel that they compete with the other skins.

My business partner and i say that we have 'Designer-itis' Because she will make something and i will think its really good, and should be priced higher then what she thinks, and vice versa, but on our own things, we always think way on the lower end of the pricing scale.

lol i really dont know why i just rambled on about that, but... i guess its just something else for someone to ponder on.

One thing I have learned in my many years of online activities is that people always will try and get stuff for free. If you offer, people will demand, and they can get very abusive when you deny them, like you owe them a free ride. $16USD is not a lot to outlay on a piece of art, IMO.

I also have a kind streak and a desire to help people, so I have been the victim of people who take advantage of that part of my nature to get as much out of me as they can. I am an artist and I charge WAY too little for my work because I worry about whether people can afford it and I don't want to price myself out of the market. On the other hand, doing that devalues my work in my own eyes, as well as other people's eyes. I have started making skins and clothing for SL recently and have setup a shop that I haven't opened yet and will price my skins at $1000, based on the amount of work that goes into them, but they are part of a package of eyes, and shape as well as other little guarantees that I have on offer regarding my work, like customising a skin (Scars, beauty marks etc) for a fee. My skins won't have 5 base tones and 16 makeup options, I simply don't have the time. If they sell, great, If not, well it's still fun and I LOVE wearing my personal, unique skin

I say they're your creation. Do what you wish with them.

its like downloading music for free. if i download something, i was never gonna buy it if i downloaded it or not. so the people looking for good skins will look for quality skins and usually go by a not too high and not too low price. if they see that 100L they might move on thinking its just another okay skin and the newbies might buy it.

why dont you just call it "quality skins for newbies" the newbies will buy it, the people who pay a lot will avoid it.