Base skin problem.. moral issue..

okay, here's the deal, I'm one of those robin hood types that loves to help out people for free or at a very low price. Lately I have created several base skins in my free time just for fun that are equal to the ones going for about 4000 lindens and up. I've been an artist and photoshop user for years and i dont draw for money, I'm a chef for money, art is a passion for me not a career. Anyway i was going to release my skin pack feturing all the skin tones and a ton of different makeups for about 100l, but when I was talking to someone that just so happend to be a skin designer she told me that her skins were a major sorce of income and that if i was to release this skin pack i would crush the market on skins and put some people in the street. On the other hand there are people that want to work in the dancer and escort feild and cant because they dont have a proper skin, so i'm stuck in a pickel, i do not want to release my skins at market value because of newbies, which was my intention at first, to help them have a better SL experiance, but i also dont want to put familys on the street by curving the SL market.. I know there isn't an easy explination for this and no i will not post screens of my work untill I have resolved this moral problem, I dont want to have people in any kind of a war on whether or not I should sell them, I would rather have people doubt my honesty than have a thousin newbies going "OMG! THOSE ARE ROXORS! WHO CARES ABOUT THE SL MARKET I WANT ONE!" and then have the oposit arguement on the side of designers, so anyway I would like your imput on the matter please n.n

There'll still be millions of skins out there, different designs and so on, and people will be making new ones all the time. You're not going to suddenly kill the market with a few of your own. A lot of people will never have heard of yours.

Anyway, they're your skins. If people don't want you giving them away they can pay you for them.

It's up to you. No one can make that decision for you. As a skin maker who covers my tier with my skin sales I hope you won't do it, but it's not up to me. Here's something to consider though. If you do it you'll not only undermine the skin market, you'll also undermine your own ability to participate in it. There may come a time when you'll want to own land or buy a private sim and use your sales to cover your expenses. If people associate your skins with such a low value you'll have a hard time getting anyone to buy them when you raise your prices, even if the quality justifies the price you raise them to. The bottom line though is that you should do what you feel is right and what makes you happy and don't let anyone pressure you to do otherwise. If it were me I wouldn't sell myself so short out of altruism when we're talking about a world populated by people with fast computers, broadband, and time to participate in leisure activities. There are very few people in SL who "can't afford" things. There are lots of people who don't want to pay for things. There's a big difference.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the market, but that's me. It appears that you do, and I applaud your concern for others.

So....my initial thought was that you could release a limited quantity, which would not impact the market. Otherwise, you could just sell to n00bs, but that would probably take more effort than you would like.

The problem with a market is that for various reasons, people WILL undercut the prices and drive others out of the business. The ability to adapt and to offer unique products and servicing is key to any business that does not have a stranglehold on their market. The other skin makers should not be relying on your good will to help keep them in business.

One thing you can do is quietly and privately gift skins to new members you encounter who need one and cannot afford one, while at the same time sell the skins at a price commensorate with the considerable time, skill and effort you put into their creation.

I can agree with alot of what you are saying chip, which is why i posted this in the first place.. see, i feel for the little people on SL that cant aford 4000 for a skin, and get laughed at by places they try to work in to earn money for that skin, so i wanted to make a pack of skins for those people until i heard the other side of things from desiners that make a living off of their skins. You are right though, i may want to own land and so on, but i cant help but feel bad for people that cant aford to enjoy SL, and I cant exactly find all these people and give them a free skin, that would get me in IM city with a million people asking for them that was another reason i wont post screens until i know what i'm going to do, anyway chip, I'd like to talk to you in game a bit some time, you seem like you know the market and could help me a little with this problem, thanks for your reply

How about continuing to give them away to newbies you meet? That way you can feel out if the person is struggling or is just looking for free loot.

I see this point, but don't entirely agree. I don't find the SL consumer base to be so sophisticated at this point, particularly due to the fact that the price in real dollars isn't high either way - so they just don't put a tone of thought into it. Other scenarios could be people may holding out for a similar price drop when you try to increase prices or you could reduce the average pricing in total as new skin makers price according to the new low price.

woah, you snuck up on me there, sorry about the double post, hope it's not anoyying. Anyway, the reason i dont hand them out is because i too would like to enjoy SL without peoples friends and friends of friends IMing me in mass for free skins, kinda like if i was at a bar or something.. hold on, anyone seen hotshots? theres a part in it where one of the main guys goes "drinks are on me" and then a pile of people come running out of every corner and door and even repelling from the ceiling going "FREE BEER" hope that makes some sence XD

Personally, I think you should sell them for what you want since you mentioned you aren't looking to make a rl career out of it. If you sell them for less than what the average skin goes for then you will find more people able to buy them and will respect you more and will tell all of their friends who tell all of their friends, etc, about you. I sincerely doubt that if you sell for way less than is available that you will be 'putting any families on the street'. That sounds like scare tactics to me and sad that anyone should try to deter you from wanting to make prices reasonable for all. If those designers make good enough items then their sales shouldn't suffer. Seems to me that the designer you spoke with was a bit scared of what you have made lol

I'm pretty picky about my skins and generally have to spend more than I want to to get a nice one that compliments me.

I am very interested in seeing what you have to offer as I am a skin freak lol

I think you should do what makes you happy. Some people will prefer your skins, other people will prefer other skins no matter what the price. I've seen some really crappy stuff for 4K and really nice ones for 1K :hrug:: In any case, I don't think the other skin designer's insecurities should affect your decision

Leilany

Sure, Allison, I'd be happy to chat with you in world any time Here's another thought to consider... my skins are priced in probably the upper middle price range. I'm not the cheapest by a longshot, but I'm not the most expensive either. I hear fairly often from people who just bought a skin that they spent a lot of time saving up for and finally got their payoff. They're usually the ones who are most thrilled with having the skin. The fact that it wasn't easy for them to get enhances their enjoyment in owning it because to them it's something of value. An item's value in SL is all about how it's perceived. If you remove that perceived value you'll find that people won't value them. Human nature is a funny thing.

$L 4000 is about $USD 16.00? I have a hard time believing that someone who can afford to play SL can't afford to buy at least one premium skin. I have a really nice skin I paid $L 1000 for also - $USD 4.00.

I'm with Chip on a lot of this. There are many people who don't want to pay for stuff. That said, I think you should do what you feel is right also.

I don't make skins by the way, and my partner who does make them, doesn't sell them.

i'm going to get totaly smashed for this one, but I was also thinking of, lets say someone wanted a mod to a skin, like a tat or something, i would do it for about 200l, or change the skin to blue or something along those lines, though I would have to let people know i couldn't do this all the time and there would be some what of a waiting list, cause i wouldn't want to be customising skins all the time you know but i dont know what i'm going to do, see, i have friends that are designers that make money off of this game, one of them my skin half done, she was the one that gave me the "oh god no... you'll put us all out of buisness!" that was the basis of this whole delima.

Whilst I agree with everyone that says it's your call there is something else to consider. I sell something (it was my first build in fact) for $10. There is an alternate to this product which costs $50. It outsells mine despite being essentially identical...

There is, even in SL, an element of if it only costs L$10 it's cheap and nasty...

So giving away cheap or free skins to n00bs is one thing, selling skins for $100 in general you might find you don't sell them.

You could also, moderately easily, adapt a vendor script with the same sort of thing as money trees so you sell cheaper to n00bs than to old hands so the differentiation is automated for you.

i know this may not have much to do with what you just said but i think it has to be said, so that some may understand a little more about me. When i talk with designers, i always get this "they are god" feeling and i feel so little in comparison, i dont want that to be how people consider me, i want to be one of the public, not one of the elite. Now i am not in any way saying that you intentionaly give me this belittling feeling, it is my fault intirely, I always feel as though i am talking up to them rather than face to face. if that makes sence, but that could very well be my submissive nature.

hehe, I know what you mean. Sometimes I meet people in world and chat with them for a while and they're surprised that I'm nice and approachable! There might be a few designers out there who think of themselves as somehow above the "common man," but for most of us it's not something we strove for or even want. It's mostly pretty annoying to have people think of you as some sort of celebrity.

This is very true! I used to sell my clothing for $250-$500 an item. About a year ago I decided to reprice my clothing to make them easier to afford for newer people so I changed the price on most of my clothing to $100. I now sell about half the clothing I used to.

i guess that can be true for some people, but i think the real thing that sells is quality, i mean if there was a levi's sticker on the butt then people would buy for the name brand but i dont know that the same logic aplies to SL. i think as katkiwi said, they buy what suits them and what looks good on them. I dont think they do it because it's a name brand, though I could be wrong in some cases people might want to feel big buy having an expencive skin, but those people are stupid XD there I said it! you buy what looks good XD

Eloise's solution is what occured to me. Just set up the vendor with a 2 tier pricing system based on avatar age. Make the skins no transfer so someone can't come in with a free alt and buy one cheap and give it to their main account.

I (or many people) could help you with this script.

jeez, 2 pages! thanks for all the help! and chip, i know a few people like that but linden wont let me use names on the forum it's against the rules, i'm so tempted to say something the name rymes with and say "it sounds like that" and eveyone would go OHHHH but i wont, i'll keep it to myself, but I know a few holyer than thou designers, lets leave it at that the thing with me is i suck at creating clothes, my problem is cutting back on the detail and remembering this isn't quake 3 anymore, so i cant really do big piles of metal I have to learn to do folds and such which i'm getting alot better at, but base skins are my speciality, I have a ton of high powered programs at my desposle and I've also been in life drawing so i know where all the muscles and such should be and i dunno, i just make them alot better than i do clothes lets leave it at that

This happens in RL all the time and marketers use this. People perceive the a value of an item based on it's cost. There is a sweet spot for all products based on the target market for prices that is not too low to indicate poor quality, and not too high that it's just more than anybody is willing to pay.

Allison, I'm somewhat of a noobie, and i bought my skin for 300L early on. Now, i could afford a 3000L, skin, i just dont want to, because my skin looks very nice and i get lots of compliments on my look. I have seen skins that look awful for 3000L, and some ppl think they are gourgeos. Its all matter of personal taste. I am sure that the skin designers will still keep their clientele, and they are not all going to rush for you just because your skin is cheaper. Btw, i think its admirable what you are trying to do.

But Chip... you are a celebrity

i've actualy met some people that thought the 4k skins were scripted and could cry and sweet and stuff! XD that might be another reason is new people dont know the game that well and also think that the skins will not only look good but will also have little pluses, like I've seen some that come with braces or pearcings