Base skin problem.. moral issue..

There's a middle ground as well. Skins tend to range from L$1000 - L$5000. You could sell yours for say L$500 which is within the reach of many new residents and would not undercut the existing low price skin designers by too much, and at the same time retaining some perceived value.

thanks i'm just a super nice person, but this problem had me thinking of which nice thing to do cause with each choice there is a bad outcome to, as well as the good outcome, but i'm glad i got so many replies alot of which had ideas i never even thought of

Allison, just another comment : why is it that the person who did my skin, who is a known designer, and owns a store in a well visited location, didn't put ppl out of business by selling her skins for 300L? If all the above complaints were true, that would certainly have happened.

I can't speak for other skinners, but I know why I price mine the way I do. Skins get corruped in the cache fairly often so I replace them for people. In order to do that I have to keep detailed records of all my skin sales going back to the very first ones I sold almost two years ago. I also sell add-on makeups which are actually different versions of the skins. Rather than make my skin customers buy a whole new skin to get the makeup I again have to be able to verify that they own the skin they bought the makeup for. I used to add custom tattoo work for people (I stopped because it was eating up 10-20 hours a week of my time) so I have to keep every custom version I've ever done in case they need a replacement. That's all work. So when someone buys a skin from me they're not just paying for the skin. They're paying for lifetime service.

well the thing with my skins is i'm not thinking of selling them in the same method as most, which would be 500 for one skin and only one skin tone, I'm talking about selling one pack that constantly grows with variations and skin tones and whatnot, because i am constantly doodling and creating skins, i have a folder called "progects" on my desktop that is filled with finished and half finished skins of just about every style, I draw them for fun it isn't like a chore for me i just like seeing them wrap around the model and one day it hit me, I could give these away or sell them or something! so i had planned on it until i started talking to desiners about it and feeling bad for them as much as i felt bad for the noobs i wanted to help. cause i didn't want to get them mad at me, cause they're like the mafia and they'd team up with all their godlike powers and smite me! kidding! i just didn't want to hurt them in any way i dont like to hurt people, it's not my thing anyway i'm still reading through alot of replies here and it's amazing that i started the day mad at SL because of some people yelling at me in a club and now i'm feeling way better

It's not my fault!

damn chip your making me not want to crush your bussness, burn down your house and force you to become a prostitute! kidding! anyway, I'm very new to selling anything, so i dont know how to work alot of venders and all that jazz, i was just gonna make it one prim and it gives you all the contents XD cause that's simple

Well, I can't wait to see your skins after all of this

i think you probably will, though i may jack up the price a bit, and not offer as much in one pack.. hell maybe I'll make some extra money in the mean time, but that doesn't mean i cant give out free stuff to the occasional begger

Well I think it says a lot about you that you'd even consider your impact on other skinners at all (very good things). I actually think that's a minor secondary consideration. The biggest thing is how it could impact what you might want to do in the future for yourself. It's a lot easier to reduce prices than to raise them.

well people are people, skinners or not, i'm not just gonna go "oh well they had their fun! BOOM!" that's the perpose of this thread, and i cant say i didn't go "oh wow! chip midnight replied!" cause yur a god and all ::ducks from lightning bolts:: anyway, send me an IM in game or something! before we turn this into a chatroom, hehe XB

I just skimmed through this - found it kind of interesting.

Are skins that different ? But what about everything else ?

Sure, successful skin makers have a talent for making skins and some feel they need to charge a lot for them. I have only bought one skin and promptly sold it when I found it was not ‘me’. I realized I like the quirky nature of the SL slider controlled skin.

I mostly make jewelry, specializing in prim jewelry. My pieces may take me very many days or a few hours depending on the intricacies. When I price a piece, I look at it and think what it looks like it should sell for.
I used to take into account all my time spent, uploads and textures. But I have evolved to just looking the completed piece over and placing on it what I feel is an SL fair value. I never even think about what other people are selling their jewelry items for when I price mine.

I have a wide range of items from 25L up to 1500L. I am sure my pricing does not affect any other jewelers. Why would one person's skin prices affect another’s really ?

Price your items the way you feel works best for you.

I too found this interesting. I would like to comment from the consumer’s POV. I feel that skins are very personal. I spent three month in the game before I seriously considered buying a skin. I then spent a month buying demos and trying them on.

I like the body detail but I am not into heavy make-up. I found most skins have too much make-up for my taste. I finally bought one of Second Life’s new skins for $1000 and paid another $200 to have Nam darken the eyebrows. I am completely happy with my skin.

I say this because I think that different people will gravitate toward different skins. I believe that someone should wait a while before buying a skin, unless they want to throw money away. As a Greeter, I advise new residents to wait on buying skins until they can compare a few and find what they like.

The money was the last thing I considered. It was how did I feel about myself wearing the skin? Did it project the image I have of myself? I would recommend to any potential skin purchaser to take your time in choosing your skin. More than anything else, with the possible exception of hair, it will reflect you to everyone who sees you. We are fortunate. The skin designers have given us a lot to choose from. Do yourself a favor and sample several.

Jen

I've bought a few skins in my time, and I really enjoyed Ryntha Suavage's cheapie "first attempt" skins that sold for a few hundred, and bought up her "Freedom skin" that was more expensive later on on the strength of it. That skin was my main skin for quite awhile, until Second Skin came out with the GX preview series, and I still use Ryntha's on occasion for variety's sake.

So, I wouldn't worry about it. No matter how well it's made, there's going to be people who want something more to their taste and are willing to pay for it.

I sell a pack of 4 four makeup skins (with the same base) for only 750L, because I am just starting out. I doubt my skins have put anyone out of business! I think you could get away with selling for 500-750L easily enough, and I like the idea of selling for cheaper for newbies. Perhaps sell just the one skin rather than a pack to them, to make it very affordable?

How about this... sell one skin color only..one make up etc..a noob will have a nice skin..go get their dancer/escort job..then after they've earned money they can go buy the more personal skin..all the makeups, skin color etc for the normal street price...it is a bit of a compromise..since not everyone is going to want the exact same shade of skin..

Remember as more people come in even with a lower price you might still be able to make more money.

Higher prices DON'T always mean higher income...everything follows a supply/demand curve and somewhere there is an optimum price to sell the most wares, and that is not the highest price. Effectively that scares away potential buyers who settle for less.

Anyway, having just been through the skin buying process I know it takes a lot of real time to make these. They have inherent value, even if they are just digital and I did spend some money getting myself accoutered.

If the price is too low, and others are forced to match it, people will just stop making skins. From what I have seen the number one thing in SL is getting one's avatar nice looking, like one wants, so the skin market is the main market, along with clothes and jewelry and such.

I'd keep the price higher on your main skins, but perhaps produce some starter models that are cheap, decent and upgradable as time goes on.

I've been watching this thread, and debating whether or not to jump in.

The thing is, no matter what our skill level, each of us is selling a unique product.

It's not as if you'll be selling the very same skins that someone else is, but for a lower price. They are selling theirs, you'll be selling yours.

That's true of all this artistic stuff, in SL and RL.

There's an artist on-line who will use Painter to retouch your own photograph (which you supply to her) and sell you a single print of it for more than $5,000 US. She has a waiting list, even though there are plenty of other people who do the exact same thing for far less, and you can buy the program and do it yourself, making as many prints as you like, for $329 US if you want the boxed version (less if you want to download it.)

The existence of lower-priced choices doesn't seem to affect her sales, because people want her work.

It's the same for all of us.

The only person your pricing will really affect, I think, is you. If you price the skins too low, you will, as Chip said, devalue your own work. Not just in the future, but now. People will assume that they aren't worth much, because you've said that they aren't. No matter how they look, they'll get a name as "starter skins" and you're likely to find that people want to "trade up" as soon as they can afford it.

I admit, until I read this thread, I'd never priced much in the way of other people's things. I'd always been too busy making my own. I might need to release things at higher prices in the future. I had no idea how much things go for in SL!

I deeply appreciate your concern; it says a lot about you that you saw a dilemma here. Selling skins for less than the "going price" might make some people complain about the higher prices that others charge. But there's already a huge variation in skin prices, and there are already plenty of people who complain.

So my advice; do what you are comfortable doing.

And thank you for starting a very interesting and thought-provoking thread.

Sell them at whatever price you want to. You will not kill the skin market, it won't crash.

But Chip has made a very good point that should be restated. It's easier to lower prices than raise them. Once you become the "L$100 skin girl" you're stuck. The day you put out that L$1000 or L$2000 skin that took you forever to make you'll get 1000 IMs cursing your name for raising your prices and "selling out."

I think what I would do would in this situation would be to have your vendors scripted to give discounts to users under 30 days, perhaps.

I wish you luck in your endeavours!

maybe i'm wrong but i seriously don't think you could crash the skin market. i'm not alone when i say i have SO many skins in my inventory lol....ranging from 500 to 6k. i have several that i love...some i never wear lol...and a couple that are my absolute faves and wear most of the time. i change from time to time...depending on my mood or perhaps the occasion. (geesh where's willow when i need her?? lol) there are so many like me.....a new skin comes out, we're THERE, getting the demo and/or the skin....just because it looks great and is DIFFERENT for those moods we have lol. i can say i have found my *true love* skin...lol....but i can also guarantee that won't stop me from trying any new ones that come out lol.

i also think alot of the other points made in this thread...from a designer standpoint....are valid. although, i'm not sure i agree with the increasing price of skins down the road concept being difficult. i've seen a large number of skin makers start out at a more lower end price wise, and increase as they become more proficient and the skins more detailed. i personally think that makes sense. i, like others in this thread, have also seen some high end priced skins that i wouldn't wear to a horror event lol.

when i first started in SL, there weren't any skins......and when the first ones came out (to my knowledge they were chip's, but i can't say absolutely lol) i had huge eyes lusting after them lol. i couldn't afford it at the time, but it also gave me something to work for and i was thrilled when i was finally able to get one. i guess i just don't think noobs have to have the best of everything right away. however, i do think making nice skins that are priced a lil more within their reach is great.

so my opinion...for what that's worth lol... is do what you want...what's right for you. i'm sure your skins are lovely but no matter how lovely they are, they won't suit everyone.....and certainly won't stop skin addicts like myself (and willow heehee) from buying others.

I think that's really the bottom line Do what makes you happy. I don't think free skins would have much impact on more established skin makers, but I do think they could make the market more difficult for new skinners to break into... but I also agree that so much of it comes down to individual tastes that people will always be willing to spend money when they find something that really suits them (or in Willow's case, every skin known to mankind, hehe).

well guess I'll toss my opinion out there as a skin maker too.

if you openly sell skins for too low you will have trouble down the line trying to sell them for a higher price. also from my experince with skins you pay for what you get, people are leary to buy cheap skins and waste money. and I doubt you will crash the skin market, but you might piss alot of people off.

my suggestion is if you truely want to help newbies which i think deserves merit too, I would take the following steps.

Add a vendor script to the skins that would ensure that no one under 2 weeks could buy it

Make sure the Skin is non-transferable so that it isnt just some alt looking to buy a cheap skin and give it to their main. and also that your efforts to help newbies isnt abused by resale, which will happen.

offer a starter pack rather than your whole collection. Newbies Don't need more then 1 or 2 skins to get our of their defaults. Maybe Day wear and night wear make up.

That's what I would do if I were you. Good luck on what ever you decide.

So when will these skins be out in world for purchase? Can't wait to see them. I have many many skins and yes, I do have a favorite skinner(Celestial Studios) but I'm always buying skin from other people for variety and a diff look. On the matter of how much to charge...well I have skins that have cost $300L-$6000 and each I love for a diff reason. I think that no matter the price some people will love them and some people will stick with the skinner they prefer. Bottom line, you enjoy what you are doing so HAVE FUN WITH IT and dont worry, things in SL always seem to work out for the best.

I think what you are attempting to do is amazing, as for putting peopl eout of work, thats not going to happen, THOUSANDS join SL and of course skin designers are going to say oh no dont put out the skins but you know, Even if your skins are the BEST peopl ewant to be unique also and newbies neeed all the help they can get, most newwbies will buy several skins until they are happy with one. Alot of skin designers frankly are crooks or worse art thieves, at least in my humble opinion
as for supporting themselves in SL
well, tehy want people to buy so why dont they buy?
anyhoo my two cents.
Ps. I do have a skin i am 100% happy with and yes i have tons of no copy no mod and no trnasfer skins
wonder what THOSE are good for.

Thanks
Sara