1.90 = Wtf?
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-13-2006 19:30
From: Keiki Lemieux Crap, I love that diving board you made Siggy, I really hope it isn't borked. It's very kewl. See above quote - if unsit turns off anims - its gone - kapoof and no coming back from the grave. The planned updates for the swimmer that let you dive into the water from the edge of pools - kapoof too. The new ladder I was working on to let you climb out of pools - gone. Additions to my waterslides to let you choose 'dismount' anims when you flew off the edge - gone. All these things relied on relinquishing animations AFTER you were unsat from an object. A behaviour that I was told back before there were custom animations was correct and the way things were supposed to be. Double dose it seems that because it cleaned up its permissions etc. not only will you not dive off the board - you'll probably get spammed to boot. I am not a happy camper over this - and the constant conflicting messages I'm getting aren't helping my mood any. I'll do a final check when I get home from work and see what the deal is (if the new and final preview is up and running) - but I have to say I'm not terribly optimistic. And I'm only 1 person in the 1% of Second Life that reads the forum - I'm pretty sure there are more folks out there that were using this behavior in their own products too.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2006 19:45
From: Siggy Romulus I am not a happy camper over this - and the constant conflicting messages I'm getting aren't helping my mood any. What is the purpose of the new changes to the camera anyway? The camera wasn't broke in the first place. /boggle |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-13-2006 19:52
From: Weedy Herbst What is the purpose of the new changes to the camera anyway?
The camera wasn't broke in the first place. /boggle 'Camera greifing' not returning perms for the camera is the party line... however I really don't give a rats arse about that because I wasn't using any of those features. The boggle of it for me is the changing of something that wasn't broken (well not if you actually cared about what you were doing) to make it easy for folks with crap scripts.  I'm gonna wait and see what happens on Wednesday I guess - but currently it don't look good. Addendum: With the 2 days notice of this going down - makes me wonder if shouldn't pull a 'telehub'.. Like I said earier - I'm not greedy, I don't care bout myself and having to pull the product - but I think the plethora of end users may wish a refund.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-13-2006 20:16
From: Siggy Romulus On a side note: I find the breaking of existing content based on what was thought to be true and correct behavior in order to bring in 'the new shiney' - and to fix problems that may occur with 'the new shiney' (not to mention appearing not to make good on the other points that were said in the intial release posts) to be irresponsible and reprehensible. Amen - I am pissed off enough about this completely frivilous camera functionality in the first place (while still no llTeleportAgent). If it damages your content, which is some of my favorite stuff in SL, I will be livid.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
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03-13-2006 20:40
From: Weedy Herbst What is the purpose of the new changes to the camera anyway?
The camera wasn't broke in the first place. /boggle It is to give the appearance of "progress" for a product that isn't progresssing - or, in the context of this thread, regressing. Oops, sorry, I mean that everything is smiles and teddy bears - I was just reviewing the last year's worth of release notes and was momentarily dazzled. Forgive me. |
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Francis Chung
This sentence no verb.
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 918
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03-13-2006 21:11
From: Cristiano Midnight Amen - I am pissed off enough about this completely frivilous camera functionality in the first place (while still no llTeleportAgent). If it damages your content, which is some of my favorite stuff in SL, I will be livid. I don't think the new camera is frivolous. It's something that SL has been missing since the day we've had vehicles. It's been low-hanging fruit that makes the whole experience of driving around so much better. Drop me an IM in preview grid, I'll prove it to you  As clunky as it is, we can at least use landmarks and sit-hacks for teleporting.
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~If you lived here, you would be home by now~
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2006 22:05
From: Francis Chung It's something that SL has been missing since the day we've had vehicles. Vehicles in SL suck. Crossing sims, controls, multi-passenger loads, prim limits, lag etc. Undoubtedly, vehicles will continue to suck. |
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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03-13-2006 22:11
From: Weedy Herbst Vehicles in SL suck. Crossing sims, controls, multi-passenger loads, prim limits, lag etc.
Undoubtedly, vehicles will continue to suck. But you get to see the suckage from new angles.  |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2006 22:14
From: Jillian Callahan But you get to see the suckage from new angles. ROFL *Wipes Coke and saliva from the screen* |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-13-2006 22:29
From: Francis Chung I don't think the new camera is frivolous. It's something that SL has been missing since the day we've had vehicles. It's been low-hanging fruit that makes the whole experience of driving around so much better. Drop me an IM in preview grid, I'll prove it to you As clunky as it is, we can at least use landmarks and sit-hacks for teleporting. Be that as it may - breaking content that doesn't use anything to do with it - and rewarding people who haven't used scripting permissions properly I don't think is the way to go. What relinquishing permissions for trigger animation has to do with camera I'll never know. It reeks of rewarding the lazy, and is a slap in the face to folks who take the extra time to do things the right way.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Francis Chung
This sentence no verb.
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 918
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03-13-2006 22:50
From: Weedy Herbst Vehicles in SL suck. Crossing sims, controls, multi-passenger loads, prim limits, lag etc.
Undoubtedly, vehicles will continue to suck. They're getting better I'm not sure what a good metric is for measuring how good vehicles can be, but they've reached the point where you can feel passionate about them in SL. I think that's progress From: Siggy Romulus Be that as it may - breaking content that doesn't use anything to do with it - and rewarding people who haven't used scripting permissions properly I don't think is the way to go.
What relinquishing permissions for trigger animation has to do with camera I'll never know. It reeks of rewarding the lazy, and is a slap in the face to folks who take the extra time to do things the right way. Oh I totally agree. Breaking existing content for no reason was unecessary. I was probably one of the first people to bug report the new behaviour. All I'm saying is that the new camera controls are an important new feature.
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~If you lived here, you would be home by now~
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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03-13-2006 23:13
One of my first reactions to flying--or more accurately, being flown in a plane--in SL, was how unlike it felt to me like unrestricted avatar motion. It was stiff and jerky and I actually asked if there were extra controls to "bounce" the camera around, not unlike CAMERA SPRINGINESS in PREFERENCES ---> INPUT/CAMERA. The FollowCam is actually a--not the, but a--culmination of numerous thoughtlines put together overdue. And not just vehicles, but the broader picture: cinematics, machinima, motion, avatar-centric communication. It's a thread that's had its heat in months (years?) past ("Why do camera controls suck so much in SL!?"  and has finally come to be. As it's scripted, the FollowCam should not affect any existing content unless you choose to make it that way. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-14-2006 00:05
From: Torley Linden As it's scripted, the FollowCam should not affect any existing content unless you choose to make it that way. and as it's announced: From: someone
SL will clean up camera control and triggered animations automatically, so it is not necessary for scripts to do this. We made this change to better handle poorly behaved scripts that do not stop animating, grabbing controls, etc. when the resident is no longer interacting with them. This does mean that existing scripts which try to clean up after themselves will generate script warnings, as they will no longer have the necessary permissions.
It does... So Torley - I love you - but take the pom poms elsewhere please - I'm not in the friggin mood right now.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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03-14-2006 00:06
From: Siggy Romulus
So Torley - I love you - but take the pom poms elsewhere please - I'm not in the friggin mood right now. Sorry Siggy, I misunderstood.  |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-14-2006 00:12
From: Francis Chung
All I'm saying is that the new camera controls are an important new feature.
I'm not saying they're not - I don't even use them yet. Others opinions may vary of course. I don't even have an opinion on them yet. I think bushwhacking permissions totally was a 'quick n easy fix' (later pretty much admitted) - and now taking away animations permissions - which has NOTHING to do with it (but does reward lazy people who churn out crap without nary a thought) is just crazy. For me, the insult to injury is that the 'new and improved system' not only busts something I made - which I could live with - but also makes it a huge spampile to boot (something I spend considerable time making sure not to do). And of course sneaking it in on the addendum of the release notes really sucks too. as it is I'm glad I got a friend to yank my vendors today - right now I have to work out whats a reasonable time back to refund folks and what to do about the angry mob that will gather when I explain 'well - it simply CANT be fixed'... My enthusiasm in SL is hitting a new time low.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Dyne Talamasca
Noneuclidean Love Polygon
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 436
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03-14-2006 00:18
One thing to keep in mind with respect to features is that one avatar's pointless frivolity is another's holy grail ... and vice versa. There's a tendency to assume that the things you want changed or fixed are based on some sort of objective metric of importance. They aren't; they are just the particular windmills you choose to tilt. Even obvious issues like performance improvements in SL can and do take a backseat to other things. From: Torley Linden The FollowCam is actually a--not the, but a--culmination of numerous thoughtlines put together overdue. And not just vehicles, but the broader picture: cinematics, machinima, motion, avatar-centric communication. It's a thread that's had its heat in months (years?) past ("Why do camera controls suck so much in SL!?" and has finally come to be. Yep. I once made a post to Feature Suggestions for this sort of thing myself. |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-14-2006 00:19
From: Siggy Romulus and what to do about the angry mob that will gather when I explain 'well - it simply CANT be fixed'...
Just refer them to Jamie, who apparantly has an answer to everything. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-14-2006 00:20
From: Weedy Herbst Just refer them to Jamie, who apparantly has an answer to everything. LOL that would be ironic 
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-14-2006 00:30
From: Siggy Romulus LOL that would be ironic Tell them, she provides refunds from the hot-tub fund. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-14-2006 05:59
Well gots home at midnight - stayed up till 6am periodically checking to see if I could get on preview but it appears to be locked out for maintainance. I'll check again before I go to work - but this is really becoming a frustrating pain in my arse.
In the interim I'm trying to see if I can match the functionality of the old item with brand new code done and entirely different way from the ground up - in under 24 hours.
An exercise in futility to be sure - but about all that can be done now.
I'm pretty sure that all is 'going ahead' and anyone who's held down a job for more than a year knows what 'well lets try this out for a little while' means.
Sometimes you have to eat shit - and thats life.
However, this doesn't mean you enjoy it.
For a nice discussion on another thing that have been 'fixed' has anyone used the amazing 'rip off textures at the drop of a snapshot' erm sorry 'New and improved HUD in your pictures' functionality yet?
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-14-2006 06:59
From: Dyne Talamasca One thing to keep in mind with respect to features is that one avatar's pointless frivolity is another's holy grail ... and vice versa.
There's a tendency to assume that the things you want changed or fixed are based on some sort of objective metric of importance. They aren't; they are just the particular windmills you choose to tilt. Even obvious issues like performance improvements in SL can and do take a backseat to other things.
. Yes thats nice - but what does it have to do with taking AWAY functionality at the last second that has absolutley nothing to with whats added? I'm not asking why something is not being fixed - I'm asking why something is being BROKEN. And not just something that kinda worked a certain way (if it was a hack I'd count my losses) - but something that I have implicitly asked about.. 'is this supposed to work this way?' when I first noticed it when sittargets were introduced, and told 'yes - that is exactly how its supposed to work' Now suddenly - at the 11th hour of an update - it's changed. It's not something I WANTED changed - something I think should have been left the hell alone.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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03-14-2006 07:45
From: Siggy Romulus Yes thats nice - but what does it have to do with taking AWAY functionality at the last second that has absolutley nothing to with whats added?
I'm not asking why something is not being fixed - I'm asking why something is being BROKEN.
And not just something that kinda worked a certain way (if it was a hack I'd count my losses) - but something that I have implicitly asked about.. 'is this supposed to work this way?' when I first noticed it when sittargets were introduced, and told 'yes - that is exactly how its supposed to work'
Now suddenly - at the 11th hour of an update - it's changed.
It's not something I WANTED changed - something I think should have been left the hell alone. Siggy I am totally with you on this one. I have been trying to get into the preview grid since I read your initial post yesterday to test the scripted objects of my families business. No luck whatsoever getting in during the times I am able to be online. Totally Frustrated is putting my frame of mind mildly. Royaly TO'd that we had no warning whatsoever of this change is also mild. It seems like it has been 1 nightmare after another since the 1.5 upgrade. Quite honestly my family and I are fast reaching the end of our patience. What alot of people seem to fail to realize is the scope of this problem. If I am right we are talking about every AO device, animation ball (sex or not), scripted furniture without balls (including your diving board), Collars, Scripted prim AVs, Hud devices, Hug and Kiss attachments,Cars, planes, bikes, any sort of vehicle, dance machines and balls. It's staggaring. It simply is not going to be possible for manufacturers to refund or replace all these things, assuming they can fix them to work at all. Which means irate customers and manufacturers throwing up their hands and saying to heck with it. Want to kill SL let this one go through. Because I gotta be honest I will be taking a hard look at my place in SL if it does. |
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Kurshie Muromachi
Primtastic!
Join date: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 278
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03-14-2006 08:37
From: SteveR Whiplash Or maybe I'm just REALLY lucky. *chuckles* No luck my friend. You were following good practices... llStopAnimation() From: someone It is usually good practice to check llGetPermissions before calling this function. Otherwise this message might appear:
"Script trying to stop animations but PERMISSION_TRIGGER_ANIMATION permission not set". |
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Brent Linden
eXtreme Bug Hunter
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 212
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03-14-2006 09:25
The preview grid isn't guaranteed to be open for any specific hours. We were doing some internal testing which required it to be closed to residents. The preview grid should be open by 10 am SLT. Because we are doing the final phases of testing, the preview grid may be restarted a few times without warning. Please do not send a bug report if you see "The simulator you are in is going down." We will try to announce grid restarts first inworld, but can't promise anything
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The best way to predict the future is to invent it. -Alan Kay
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Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
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03-14-2006 09:46
I have to say I am impressed. I just tested all the scripts from our family businesses and did not find one that caused an error. That Includes CrystalShard Foo's poseball script Another poseball script we use for furniture A custom done multiple animation poseball script A custom done handcuff script And the Franimation AO scripts Looks like they fixed it! |
