100 People in a Single Sim

There are two paths that can be taken when trying to counteract something we are against. Torley's energy, enthusiasm and wit represent the thing about SL which caused me to want to spend my cash to support the arts. Reading how crappy SL is compared to what it used to be is not such inspiration. It's natural to want to vent but some balance is needed. I hope that those who are striving to create and maintain cool, beautiful, and creative places and things to do in SL will be supported with the dwell of the people who are upset by the presense of camp chairs.

FIRST OFF that sim is not all camp chairs.. they have some but umm well who doesnt. They have slingo, tringo, greedy greedy and more. SO before you start off at the mouth i think you all need to go there and look.. Not to mention they have been number one and stayed number one before the camp chairs.. WHy dont you go to other sims that ONLY have camp chairs and mouth them... Its really sad that you all have nothing better to do then start lies about sims that you know NOTHING about!

Take a deep breath there Mia. If you would go back and read the first post in this thread you would see that what was being discussed was 100 people in the sim with managable lag. However, Ice Dragons would NOT have gotten the 100 people WITHOUT camp chairs. That is all that was being said in the first post.

In subsequent posts I simply pointed out that more people were in the sim for camp chairs and dance pads then were there for the other activities.

I also tied this thread with this one here, in which I pose the question to those who know better than I, "Is this worth it just to get the Developer Insentive Award?"

Did you breathe? Okay good.

I for one used to work constantly trying to stay in the top 20. I applaud Ice Dragon for being able to do it and I know for one that they do work very hard, been there done that. I am though saddened that I no longer can compete though. I just can't afford it. With the incentive and traffic lindens it didn't even come close to paying for what I was putting out, let alone the entire stress of it all. I have some very great host and guest and have felt I have let them down, but the competition is just too much.

I wish those that can do it the best of luck but for now Pink Rose is a great Mall with occasional games and events.

I do wish to be honest there was a way to compete in game with ideas for events instead of it boiling down to lindes. but as always the money wins out.

Rick seriously dont start with me.

I did read the first post and everyone after that! Its not all the camping chairs again the tringo and slingo stay full. So I think you need to reword the way you bring in the camping chairs and if you wanna keep saying that its why they have all them ppl there then your WRONG. and why dont you go to ALL the other sims that are in the top umm idk maybe top 40 and see how they get there traffic.!!!!! I know for a fact that its just on camp chairs Ive been there and seen. but you dont here me starting post trying to start crap now do you... so before you tell me to take a deep breath know the facts! Jv and Krys work hard at keeping that place number one. then ppl like you come and try to bad mouth it. Just plain sad!

So using a camping chair is "leeching"? The owners have chosen to put them there and set the limits on how much they pay out. What other opportunities to get money freely offered in the world are people required to turn down to avoid "leeching"?

And as for buying L$ on Lindex - quite apart from the fact that this would break the rules of the "metagame" that a lot of campers seems to be playing, it neglects the same point that all micropayment systems have neglected - that the difference between $0 and $1 is much bigger than the difference between $1 and $2.

Beware of the side effects when combining medications.

How about all of them? The whole concept underlying SL is that it relies on user created content to attract and hold people who don't themselves wish to create things and sell them. To be a productive/contributing member requires that people either create content or buy L$, which creates the incentive for those who do. It's an exchange of value for value. An entitlement mentality (and the care and feeding thereof) works directly against the underlying foundation that SL depends on.



Huh? Imagine if instead of getting paid to hang out at a club all night, people paid $10L a head. Spending the cost of a large latte on Lindex would net a person enough L$ to afford 100 admission tickets. If that's too expensive for people (who were somehow able to afford broadband and a good enough computer to run SL) then perhaps they should be spending their free time seeking employment in the real world.

Tough!

The entitlement mentality doesn't come from nowhere, nor from people being unreasonable. It comes from the fact that the web is full of free galleries to look at - yes, even ones with 3D renders - movie trailers to view, music to download (legally), free games to play, free talkers, etc. If you want to compete for their leisure time then, well, that's what you've got to compete with. I'm sorry to say it, but just because it's "the whole concept" or "the underlying foundation" of SL doesn't mean that real markets have an obligation to make it workable.



Spending the cost of nothing on MSN messenger would let them chat to bigger groups as many times as they wanted. What else are you putting in that club to make it worth them spending money?



Not a reasonable comparison. People can't get the equivalent of broadband and a good enough computer for free elsewhere.

Well Yumi, nice to know that you're just fine with the knowledge that the only reason you and other entitlement seekers can log in to SL at all is because content creators and land owners subsidize you by keeping LL afloat. Nice of you to take their handouts, enjoy leisure at their expense, and feel absolutely zero compulsion to give anything back. It's an attitude that sickens me.

Why do you think this is about me personally? I'm not an entitlement seeker. I don't use camping chairs. The L$ I have, I've earned by writing custom scripts for people - and yes, I did buy some on Lindex as well, but only in the anticipation that I'd need them as a startup investment, not just to spend on entertainment. I even went Premium a few days after starting because SL intriuged me and I knew it'd have running costs that need paying. But guess what? I'm still not having all that great a time in SL. If it wasn't for the fact that I know I can probably do better because others do, I'd have left already. If it becomes apparant that I can't do that, because I lack the skill or the opportunities are gone, I'm out.

What I'm saying is that camping chairs make me sad, and I don't think that hating the people who use them will be effective as a solution.



Why? If handouts are being offered, it's no crime to take them. If folks are handing out stuff to the general public and expecting a covert social contract that they'll get stuff back, then they shouldn't do that, because it doesn't work. But equally, if folks make it plain that if you stop handing out stuff, they'll go hang out with the guy over there who is handing out stuff, they're doing nothing wrong.

Hold up Chip.

Not everyone in SL wants to be a content creator and work eight or nine hours a day making items for sale.

This is their Second Life. It shouldn't BE like their first life unless THEY CHOSE to do so.

While many individuals here cash out their Linden's for real life money; many others here are spending their weekly dividends on RENTED land, purchasing business-created CLOTHING, CARS, AIRPLANES, etc. etc. so that their time spent in world is ENJOYABLE from their everyday living.

Just because you have chosen to be a content-creator and take your Lindens OUT OF THE ECONOMY and cash out monthly -- that gives you absolutely no right nor reasoning to place blame on those who simply come into SL to enjoy what is available. How many of your Linden's received from the sales of your clothing are placed back into the economy and not cashed out as USD on a monthly basis? You don't subsidize Chip, if you take all your proceeds out monthly as USD and don't put any back into the economic circulation.

In other words, instead of complaining about the "welfare-type system" and the whiner's that don't want to work within SL -- put some of those Linden's you earn BACK into the economy. Host an event, teach a texturing class and give out a pittance in prize money, hell put a money ball in your store for a monthly grand-prize drawing.

Do something other than bitch and complain about "those who don't have want more." Do something other than criticize and blame the socializers within this game for wanting the nice things they see but can't afford. For many people, $10 a month is a lot of money; but their laughter, friendliness and even creativity within SL is worth more than SL can afford to LOSE.

Help put Linden's back into the economy by offering an opportunity instead of complaining about some of the simplistic ideas that are the only money-offering opportunity out there. And PLEASE stop criticizing those who are here in SL to enjoy, laugh and socialize rather than work fulltime in SL. SL needs BOTH types of individuals to succeed. Your attitude just pushes people away further from enjoying what fun SL can be.

Hmm. You could look at it this way too though. (and no, I do not use camping chairs _unless_ I happen to be playing a game somewhere that has them as the chairs to sit in while playing an ingo or jacks or whatever game).

1) Club owners, business owners, island owners that have camping chairs, probably at some point do need to purchase Lindens from Lindex or other alternative places. These L are being sold by the content creators who are selling the Lindens used by people to purchase the content they create.

--I back this up by saying that any club I have ever known does purchase Lindens at least some of the time. There is no way a club can float on the dwell bonus alone, as this usually ends up merely paying their tier each month. This is before you count in any wages they are paying, any prizes they are giving out, any raffle balls spinning.

2) The people that come and sit in the chairs at these places of business are earning Lindens. They then take those Lindens, and instead of hoarding them until they have enough to sell (because really, if you investigate camping chairs they do not make you enough money to even get a partial part time income from), use them to buy the content that the content creators are making.

3) Those content creators then turn around and sell those Lindens on Lindex or through other alternative methods. Selling sometimes to the very clubowners or business owners using camping chairs.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Now before camping chairs, not counting the wages that people could earn in clubs or modeling or any of the other jobs that do not involve content creation, the cycle went somewhat like this.

1) Club owners bought Lindens from content creators selling the Lindens paid to them by users for their created content. These L went out as event prizes, ingo money, wages to employees.

2) The employees, winners of contests, slingo/tringo etc., raffle prize winners turned around and trotted out to buy content created by content creators.

3) Content creators turned around and sold those Lindens that were paid to them, back to business and club owners.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Fair enough, but you seem to be working very hard to defend the entitlement mentality. I just think you should realize that it's the single biggest reason there aren't more entertaining things to do in SL... because their's no return on investment, and there never will be as long as land owners keep paying people to spend time on their land. SL can't continue to exist as a place where the majority is entertained by the charity of the minority.



I don't hate them. I just think they're fools engaged in a practice that ultimately works to their and everyone else's detriment. I have absolutely zero sympathy for people who are unwilling to contribute, either by creating content, or buying L$.



I disagree. Taking value without giving something of equal value in return is fundamentally unethical. I don't expect people to necessarily understand that, though, because we have so many people training them like pavlov's dogs that the only thing worth their response is the ding ding ding of money chairs, money balls, and money trees paying out. I guess it's simply too much to ask or expect that people would try and look at the bigger picture and the long term health of SL instead of their short term desire to see their name on the popular places list. People are already given the lifetime ability to log in, explore, and play with a lot of great free content... now on top of that they expect to be paid for it so they can get the fruits of paying members labors too? And there's nothing wrong with that? pfft!

I can agree with all of this! The problem is that if you somehow ban camping chairs and start charging people for events, you can't assume those people will just start buying L$ and "contributing" or whatever. There's at least a good chance they'll just go. As I've said, out in the real world there's plenty of free stuff that competes with SL. If that means that SL has to pay people to be there in order to compete, then that's unfortunate, but it's something that has to be worked within or around rather than just disregared.



So it's fundamentally unethical for the homeless to stay in shelters, because they can't pay the value back?



They may well say that they are looking at the long term health of SL, because if they couldn't make money by camping, those people would leave.



Well, thing is.. as was mentioned in the Habitat article, in the metaverse it's all about social interaction. The quality of content is being judged on the subjective, sliding, social scale. The better the best looking folks look (by whatever standard of "better" you like, whether that's more beautiful or more like Bugs Bunny, etc), the more ugly newbies will feel, the more they'll consider as their minimum to be entertained, and the more they'll expect that for free because hey everyone else has it right?

People who never spend any RL$ in SL could all vanish tomorrow and they'd not be missed by LL. I don't say that to be rude. It's common sense. Basic accounts being free give people a chance to get their feet wet and have some fun with no expense, but if they never convert to premium or don't contribute to the economy, then they're ultimately a drain on the system. That's just the way it is. The less people cater to those who want everything for free, the better it is for LL in the long run.



This is a false analogy. No one is homeless because that's how they want to be, and if they are only homless by choice and exist on handouts, then yes, they are being unethical.



And that would be detrimental how exactly? Every active avatar in SL costs LL money in bandwidth, hardware, and cumstomer service.



They won't expect it for free unless that's what the SL culture caters to, and if it becomes the norm we should all enjoy SL while it lasts, because it won't.

It's never occurred to me before to wonder what would happen if they eliminated dwell.

Please do not compare the issues faced by the homeless to those with little money in SL.

Well...since I have no knowledge of how to do scripting, building and all that complicated stuff and I probably never will know anything about it...nor do I have the time in RL to learn it, SL is just a form of computer entertainment to me. I wander around and enjoy exploring and seeing all the creativity etc. I sit in camping chairs and dance on dancing pads so I can have fun buying things and playing games when I have the time.

I would have no desire to to pay real money to do all this. It's not that much fun!!! From what I can see, there are extremely intelligent creative people here who know how to create wonderful sites. They are getting mighty upset that people are not just coming by to look at their creations or stick around to sit at their bars and or chat. They are not happy competing with camping chairs etc. Well...it's nice exploring, but there is not enough to keep me entertained if I had to pay RL money to hang out here. I have better things to do in RL. The land owners want to make money and use us non land owners to do it. Well us non land owners would like the opportunity to make money on our level to do what we'd like in SL. And I would have to say that, that is our business how we spend our time here. Our business how we choose to make our little nest eggs, our business what we spend it on etc. If they get rid of the few ways we non land owners have to make a few $L then many of us simply will have little incentive to come here much and all you land owners will just have to survive off each other.

Just saw this thread and will post the pic in a bit as well, but the pic even is not right, we hit 104, but the main thing that was interesting was we held 101 plus for 2 hours before the sim crashed. Pic is of 102, New Year's Eve 2006... what a party it was too... Bad Girls in Kingdom City now known as Badlands.

hi i guess this is an island record were talking about here so I'll update.... Badlands, then known as Kingdom City held 104 at peak and 101+ for over two hours on New Year's Eve 2006 (Dec. 31st 2005) During the Bad Girls New Year's Party

And we don't and didn't use camp anything. Just money drops, which is a hell of a lot more exciting and I boot campers if I see them, but that's just me. I want to party not load up my sim with dead weight.

jesse has a point...........100 in a sim is no big deal. Since its been done a few times in the bad land sim. But what is important for the "WHOLE" Sl game in whole 100 in a sim is have a STABLE client. Withe new server inthe works, we might see a continues 100 in a sim. hech 100 in a sim is nothing what will happen in the next 6 to 8 months. 100 in sim i laugh at it...... 250 in a sim is the new thing Not 100. get with the times!

...but us filthy furries did the 100 people in a sim thing about eight months ago (FurNation Tria's inaugural). And we've done it three times since in other venues.

Times are a changing at a rapid pace as well. As I recall, the only sims that are currently not doing camping on the top 20 list is IceDragons and Club Extreme Casino. Ive been to quite a few of the top places on the list and there are chairs, dancepads, surf boards etc.. I thought camping would have died by now seeing there are no incentives left in the game but of course if its offered in a game where you can exchange the linden play money for real US$ then what do you expect especially when LL opened the floodgates to free account users. The campers will flood any land that has the offer of free bucks.

Regardless, all landowners who provide great events and round the clock catering to thousands of SL users per day whether your #1 or #1000 on these lists, great job and some of us really appreciate the efforts that you all spread to make this game better for us players.