I declare this thread to be open discourse

Decisions of the Res-Mods are already tied to IW assets. So residents governing over other residents already exists indirectly IW. Even though that connection is not a direct connection IW with one resident over seeing the actions of another resident directly IW. Meaning IW SL-Police appointed by LL.

It is a indirect connection when their IW assets are connected to the forums.

Given that some forum posters are given more merit than others. Some posters AR’s are ignored. Post are reviewed and edited inconsistently.

That is a flawed government system that already exists. Regardless of its direct or indirect IW connection.

Cat

I agree with every word in Cristiano's post, and with Martin above.

coco

Martin, i still don't understand how ResMods are connected to anything IW. we have no power over that domain whatsoever. our involvement is strictly within the forums and even then, it's not to report people.. it's to help moderate threads.

and i also have to disagree with "some ARs get ignored". this is simply NOT the case, especially due to the fact we don't know who is making an AR. each AR is considered individually and equally. the whole idea that there is some "ignore list" is a myth.
--

other than that, this is to everyone, i wanted to ask if anyone has seen anything good come from this? we know that there have been complaints about some of the ResMods, but are there any that you consider to be doing their job well? or at least decently enough?

also, another thought i was pondering, is there a side effect happening where other forums (as in here, not third-party) are becoming more active? with the rising amount of threads being moved to more appropriate forums, is this creating more traffic for those respective forums and as a whole?

Indirect connection.

Suzie posts to the forums “Alvin is a stupid jerk!”

Suzie’s post get AR’ed.

Res-Mods see that Suzie posted a personal attack.

Res-Mods send Suzie’s post to the LL Moderators for review.

The LL Moderators find that Suzie’s post was a personal attack.

Suzie has been warned before, and took a nice 7 day suspension.

Suzie gets banned.

Suzie just lost all her IW assets.

Res-Mods set the ball in motion. It was only found out later that Suzie called Alvin a stupid jerk. Because Alvin had said to Suzie, “Fuck you cunt”.

Alvin still posts.
Suzie is playing WoW.

It simply IS the case, Cybin.

I myself am a walking lab experiment in it, with proof galore. But anybody, in fact, can see it just by reading the forums.

And if all THAT weren't enough, we have Satchmo explaining why this is the case.

Satchmo wasn't the first to observe the inequities. It's been obvious since I have been here. He merely explained why it is that way, and he should know.

And it's been this way since long before the resmod system was instituted. The resmod system merely helps to institutionalize it further.

No one ever said there was a literal "ignore list."

There doesn't have to be. We pretty much all know who is on that list, literal or not. We know who can say stuff and who can't.

That right there should tip you off.

coco

ok, i see where you're coming from and there's an amount of validity to it. however, it doesn't really make a difference, as Jeska still reads ARs as well. so either way it's being reviewed by a Linden.

also, if it's reported to a Linden by a ResMod, it doesn't reslut in a knee-jerk reaction to warn/suspend the alleged offender.. it simply means a Linden will look into it. there have been several instances like the one you mentioned that i know of.. and many times it's found that the alleged offense actually isn't one. there really is a large amount of tolerance and fairness to the process.

yes, i'm aware there have been some wonky moments in Linden moderation, but i don't think that has anything to do with the ResMods as it existed long before this program started. as far as wonky ResMod actions, well.. i'm not surprised about that. i'm betting most of us haven't had experience moderating forums ever before and are trying to learn this art rather quickly. not that it's an excuse, it's simply a reason.

you know.. i have a really hard time with this topic. you point to history on the forums to back you up, and you have some valid points to it. then again, that same history could show where inequality has gone in the opposite direction.

as i mentioned elsewhere, i'm realizing i must have some sort of happy-groovy-time blinders on, because i never think in those terms. i just act as honestly and evenly as i can and assume the rest of the moderators (LL and RM) would strive to do the same.

from my optimistic viewpoint, i imagine that such inconcistencies aren't intentional, just the result of the difficulties of trying to keep an eye on EVERY forum.. EVERY thread.. and EVERY post. on top of listening to ARs. it's not an easy task to apply evenly, no matter how hard any moderator tries.

basically, if there's a list, then i'm not aware of it.. nor do i subscribe to any such actions.

No ignore list.. so I suppose people get away with calling hebrews hitler everyday?

Godwins - da thread is over

Your words imply that I (I do not speak for the other Res-Mods, but speak only of and for myself, hereafter) relish and revel in some bizare power trip; that I, with a choke-hold on my Linden-granted uber-powers of destruction and banishment, am plum full-up with self importance; that I, now duly appointed, devoutly wish nothing more than to censor and/or censure all who stand in the way of my own personal petty agenda; that I wish nothing more than to run helter-skelter, willy-nilly through the forums arbitrarily shutting down dialog based on nothing more substantial than my own mood.

If you actually believe that the sentiments expressed above are true, it is no wonder that so many are obstreperously opposed to the Res-Mod program in both theory and practice.

If, however, you considered, even for a moment, that I, for one, must think about many of the ARs I have received for several hours (in some notable cases, several days)--considering motivations, considering potential alternatives, considering other possibilities to shutting and/or moving threads--then the seeming inconsistency/inaction on my part as a Res-Mod becomes readily apparent.

I never imagined that I would be asked to do this. When I found that I was a member of Group II, my first thinking involved the thrill of being part of an experiment--one I would like to see succeed if and only if it unifies and protects the voices of the SL community.

Many have pointed out that volunteers have "less to lose." I know that this is not true. I have lost SL friends because I am currently a "hall monitor." My reputation--all I really have in SL--hangs in the balance. I think that is quite a bit to lose.

On the subject of the ResMod program, I'm still flat-out indifferent on the whole thing.

I do think it could have been introduced to the community in a better way, but that time has passed now. I just don't see what is worthy of getting so upset over.

What does make me uncomfortable, is watching some folks who were generally held in good esteem be treated with such contempt. All I can think about is how hurtful it must feel to seemingly overnight be branded as treacherous by some folks.

Its clear that many find the resmod program outrageous. I just think its much more constructive to take our frustrations out on the organization (Linden), and not the residents who volunteered to help.

I think the vast majority of criticism has been against the program itself, not the individuals involved. There has been some criticism of some individual ResMods - some deserving, some not - but I don't think they are being branded or ostracized. I don't have a problem with any of the individual resmods, even the overzealous one who edited out my post. I have a problem with the lack of leadership, the lack of accountability, and the entire notion of the program in the first place - and that is clearly on the shoulders of LL. The ResMods aren't exempt from criticism, however, but it certainly has not been targetted at them for the most part.

I just wanted to post here and say that while I haven't been posting as frequently as I could (or should?) in ResMod-related threads, I have been listening and learning.

I believe for better or worse, we've hit the one-month mark of the ResMod programme and if there's any concerns I can help clarify, I will. If I don't understand, then I'll likely ask Jeska and Robin for guidance with official policy.

One thing that puzzles me that hasn't been brought up more: there's a ResMod system on the Teen Grid Forums called "eXtreme mOderation". It's doing excellently. Jeska mentioned a bit of this in her initial ResMod Announcement. It's not fair to foist part of that here where you can't see it, but it's nice to know that in a parallel Second Life, for whatever reasons, a type of ResModding is cruising along.

I simply oppose the program - I keep hearing all these people say 'well you have to seperate the person from the argument'

I have nothing against the people - I don't hold Juro in contempt for participating in the program.

And although I'd lay money on them being picked so that people would be less likely to voice disatisfaction at the program, lest they seem like pricks for 'ragging on such upstanding people' that seems to have not worked.

For the most part I'd say folks who have voiced disatisfaction at the program have done just that - and pointed holes and shortcomings in it.

Kids may be more used to being told what to do?

Kids antics are generally less harmfull than adults too.


But what the fuck, I'm waiting for the usual party line where all but the positive comments are totally ignored, and it's declared a howling success and becomes permanent policy.

Because to tell the truth even when they agree with you - 9 times outta 10 its all pissing in the wind anyways.

I agree with Siggy on this one. It's doing well on the teen grid, because they are teens. Please do not start compairing Adult SL with the teen SL. Or I will have to bring up the four teens who got busted today and 3-7 day suspensions; for sexual activities.

Apples and oranges. As if we all want to be more like the teens, it's laughable to compare the two.

I don't get the impression it really matters what ppl's opinions are. LL does what LL wants to do. Period end of story.

The only place the res mods are cruising to is straight into a brick wall.

^ I stated it as an example of something else currently happening. As in, "we have both", it's not theory. Just because ResModding works there doesn't mean it has to work on MG. I am always curious for other observations and insight from people who are not me--simply put, it broadens the palette and I appreciate it.

I am not a paleontologist, but in my younger years, I was terribly rebellious and didn't do what I was told. I was atypical too, but this was my experience. Just sharing more about where I'm coming from.

The fascinating contradiction for some is to be childlike, not childish.



Well, you won't get that here.

Not entirely sure what you meant by the figures of speech? Could you please explain more?

I will say, tho, that the negative things do weigh heavily as well. I would not like an imbalance of perceived success (or lack of it) reacting in the moment to the +'s or -'s.

Then I misunderstood the intent of your post, my apologies. On the MG TG thing.

Already have, it's just history repeating itself really.

of course many responses will be of a positive nature, ResMods or LL wouldn't want to come ni and say, "you're right, everything is terrible. DOOM DOOM DOOM!" but just because there's a lot of focus on positives to try to further to community of SL/LL, it doesn't mean that the negatives are ignored. quite the opposite.

think about all the original complaints about the program.. transparency, consistency, the release of the list of ResMods before confirming them, the question of the use of profanity, ARs having info about the one reporting, lack of knowledge of job before starting..

every single one of these have been addressed and fixed to some degree or another.

transparency - a good amount of information has been made public knowledge and there exists attempts to continue to do so and to increase said transparency.

consistency - i'm not saying there aren't some wrinkles in the fabric, but the ResMods have been working at this since the beginning. when something isn't clear-cut, we have a thread (in the ResMod forum) to discuss what should be done and can acheive an answer together. there is also the Best Practices thread which is continually being added to which helps define some finer points for consistent moderation.

release of ResMod list - as of Phase 2, this list is confirmed before being released. so, we no longer will have the "hey, what is this? i didn't want this" reaction, which just looks sloppy to the community.

profanity - this is listed in Best Practices and has been defined communally in several places as well. it comes down to a simple basic rule: profanity is ok, but not when used to attack someone. the arguement of "this language is inappropriate for PG forums" can only be applied to tmies when someone is being attacked, not when profanity is used as a part of speech.

AR info - this was taken care of long ago. all identifying information was taken out and ResMods don't know where they come from. (this was requested by both the community as a whole AND by the ResMods themselves.)

job knowledge - it needs some tweaking, but now there exists a week-long training period for new ResMods to learn the ropes and thus ease into their roles. it wasn't a beaming success this time through, but it was a large step in the right direction and definitely helped in defining ResMod responsibilities.


now, with that said, can we truly say that everything but the positive has been ignored?

i understand that one of the ouitcries is that the ResMod program isn't wanted and a large part of the community would rather see it shut down. i think this HAS been answered and not ignored.. but, the answer is "let's wait and see what happens". it has been said that if the program doesn't work, after having had a chance to work out the kinks and see if it truly works or not, then it will be shelved.

i'm about to come back to the other side of the fence.. my "powers" will be gone and i'll have a different point from which to view this all. trust you me, if i see it heading in the wrong direction, i'll be right there with you saying there's a problem.

This did make me giggle.

Ok if a 'large part of the community would like to see it shut down' (I don't know if it is or isnt' the case - but lets pretend for a moment that i may be).

And then saying 'well its hunky dory! here we go with phase 7!' - then it's a case of ;
'We're doing this'..

Which I'm fine with - but don't dress it up as 'we'll listen to what you have to say and take your feedback!'

Because that would just be - for want of a better word - horseshit.

And yet I know that's EXACTLY what's going to go down... Color me Malachi but the dudes cynicism is well founded and starting to go around as time progresses.

And like I said - its history repeating itself.

so like... are robin and jeska saying these things, too? do they agree with you? did they say something relevant and i just missed it?

While we're all expressing ourselves here, I must say... I feel really guilty eating these chips. They're really good, but I know they're terrible for me. PM me if you want the bag. Seriously.

If they're salt and vinegar, I'll take you up on the offer. But you can totally suffer if you tell me they're BBQ.

Neither. They're totally 'Grandma Utz's Handcooked Potato Chips'. They have no shame as they list the ingredients as 'Potatoes, salt, lard' and nothing else. I'm awaiting the PM so I can send this bag of chips to a land far away.