I declare this thread to be open discourse

OK I will toss out the opener, something i said elsewhere, but I think its worth repeating because I would love to hear feedback on this:

Would we tolerate a program where members could be selected by a few Linden employees and given the power to wander in world to monitor and censor our content there? I doubt it. Can you see it now...an in world version of a resmod closing a shop in world for selling suggestive clothing in a PG sim...What, you think that would never happen? That exists here in the forums now with the resmod program.

Well friends, how does this resmod program differ from the concept of an inworld army of elite members who can control us...it really is the same conceptually.

I say end the resmod program now or else declare that member government exists and allow us to vote for and elect who shall control or limit the content we offer in SL whether it is in world or in print on the forums.

Now, this is an open discourse so talk about what you want...there is no off topic.

I didn't read the words. but whatever it is. I agree totally!!

I think that's alot like how Dubya got elected.

Just say NO to player government.

-Ghoti

I endorse this product/service.

I think your analogy is quite a stretch. Anyway, didn't you once AR a piece of art I had in a PG sim just to prove a point about subjectivity which resulted in a Linden forcing me to remove it? Just a thought, but perhaps we'd all have more the kind of world we'd like to have if people on both sides of the issue would stop complaining so damn much and just worry about their own words and actions instead of everyone else's.

I see your point clearly, and I happen to agree. Once we start down the path of one player having any control over another player that path becomes a very slippery slope.

I also am of the mind set, get rid of it or do it right. By right I too mean let the community have a say which players are put in a position of power.

Cat

I endorse this product and/or service.

I sorta agree with both.. I think the problem has 2 heads...

People that are too concerned about others modes of expression.. and a bunch of hall monitors they can run to and complain about it too.

I think without the one you wouldn't really need the other.. but thats just me.. there are more things to be concerned about than babble on internet forums really.

I'm going to go wayyyyy out on the controversial limb here, but....what in SL's green texture makes you think a Linden is any more qualified to moderate a forum than a ResMod could? Because it's LL that is on their paycheck?

As far as I'm concerned the ResMods cannot possibly do any worse than LL on the forum moderation. At least I know with a bad ResMod they'll eventually get removed from the rotation. Can't say that with a Linden moderator.


- Newfie

Well they have more at stake I think ... compare the worst that can happen.

couple of days in the cornfield and lose your hall monitor sash.

Lose your job and income.

Who stands to lose more for fucking up?

Then of course theres the 'I don't pay money to have other customers tell me what to do' - thats just my stand on principle.

I agree that's a very reasonable line of thought, except that history shows it hasn't gone that way. LL's track record of forum moderator has been questionable at best, downright random at worst. Considering how LL has handled the forums in the past, the prospect of losing one's job over it doesn't seem to be either very likely or very worrisome.




On that point I agree. I wouldn't want to be a volunteer to have to deal with the current forums mess.


- Newfie

katykiwi, thank you for starting this thread.. i was going to reply to it in the other one, but it seems more fitting to reply here.. as i may have to go write a thesis in the other one about On Topic-ness.

anyhoo, my point here is that i would hate to see any form of player-run government in-world! i can see where your comparison is coming from and you're right.. it is a dangerous line to be dancing near, but i seriously doubt we'll see an in-world form of ResMods.

granted, we all have the ability to AR things in-world.. and there are resident run "Better Business Bureau" type of groups, but they're not LL sanctioned.. thankfully.

the forum ResMods are a decent idea, in my opinion. as long as they stay right here and don't abuse the powers given to them. we're trying to help Jeska and spread the moderation more evenly. not easily done and off to a shaky start, but if it shapes up how it could.. it could actually end up being useful.

but i digress.. my real point is that no, we would NOT tolerate a player run ResMod type of program in-world. it would be too easily gamed and too easily corrupted, not to mention it would be cataclysmic for LL. i wouldn't be surprised at all if something like that happened that SL would quickly become a ghost-world due to the mass exodus of those of us who wouldn't stand for such a turn of events.

Im sorta with Katy - I don't see the difference.. especially if FORUM events are tied to WORLD events.. sorta makes it double so..

.. then again the stick is pretty cool if your the one holding the stick.

As for the thesis, I'm not allowed to suggest people steer a conversation back on track?

The great communicator!

Yeah, I don't know what else there is to say but this.

A Linden might make what I consider a poor and unfair judgment, but you know what? It’s their game. I don’t mind them watching over me. Whether they lose their job or not, whether they are total blithering idiots, it is still their game and I accept that.

Other residents AR’ing things is fine. (Not that I will ever bother again.)

Voting for residents to have control over us either on the forums or in game, NO and THOUSAND MILLION TIMES no.

To quote Siggy: I don’t pay money to listen to other customers tell me what to do. Either here or inworld.

coco

good point about forum activity (read: discipline) is tied to in-world consequences. i can't say i'm too keen on that myself.

i have to admit, i could very well be wearing some blinders myself, but it may not be the reason you suspect. it's not because i'm a ResMod and am "holding the stick", it's more because i forget to take pause and think about what the results could be on the negative side. i would never dream of abusing my power (not patting myself on the back, just a simple fact) and because of that it's easy to forget (especially without being on the other side first) that someone could easily abuse this position to further their own agenda or that of one of their friends.

i would hope that nobody would do such a thing, but i can see the concern. this is also why i strongly encourage critiquing from the community on the ResMod program and how it's doing and what could make it better. also, if you see a ResMod acting out of line, i would suggest possibly both using an AR and PMing Jeska to bring the problem to light.


and one last thing..absolutely! feel free to try to help get any conversations back on track. i was just making a little joke.. especially because i had been thnking about how it was getting to that point, but i REALLY didn't want to come post "get back in line" again. so, thank you for the help!!
(and you kow, i can't help it.. i talk that long in RL as well.. i drive my friends nuts. lol)

I'm sure you wouldn't - for your verbosity you do genuinely care about what your doing, and yeah I respect that.. however people are people.

Case in point - just recently on Day one I had one tell me how I'd better change my sigline and thought I should 'think it over if I want to get a Linden involved'... they also went on (I think the party line was due to a permissions mess up - which I don't buy) to edit another users post.

So I think the bringing of personal agendas etc are already happening, and it doesn't really make me feel that it will get any better over time.

My line is 'if it's important enough for me to do - it's important enough for someone with the company to tell me to do'.

The agreement I signed is between LL and myself, not LL and myself and a few customers they think are bang up people.

Folks are free to disagree with that if they like, but my opinion is very unlikely to change.. I don't have a problem with the people - I have a problem with the policy, which has already show to my eyes that its flawed.

How come?

Do you really think this forum has any impact at all on anyone's job or reputation at LL? Do you really think they take all of our boot filling any more seriously than we do? Second Life may not be a game or a rat maze, the jury's still out; but these public forums are nothing more to them than a joke over the water cooler.

I mean seriously, read back through this garbage and tell me that you can honestly believe anyone ever considered it worth more trouble than a good laugh over a community of children slinging mud in each other's eyes. If it ever were supposed to be a serious endeavour, they'd've given up months ago and shut down everything except the Linden forums.

I believe that someone hired to do a job - and gets paid to do that job, has more to lose than a volunteer - yes.

As for the worth of the forums - I think its all shite. but thats just me.

That's kinda my point, official moderators must have real, productive jobs at Linden Lab that occupy most of their time. Don't ya think?

That came to mind for me too Chip. She also got way bent out of shape when I called her a shrieking bitch. Never figured that one out, what with open discourse and all.

Hehehe I got warned for saying 'attention whore'

And apparantly 'c word' (not the ACTUAL C WORD - just saying 'c word') is pretty bad too, and I should really think about changing it

You are such a cunt if you succumb.

Iiiiiiiive had an .... absolute cunt of a day - everything that could go, did go wrong, so if I'm allowed to use the word 'cunt' in a song, I've had an absolute cunt of a day....