What would Bono say?

man....no rest for the wycked....I didnt name names...lmao...but you sure did...so you knew exactly where I was coming from.

The bottom line is that the reporting was inflated, irresponsible and was the kind of tripe you expect from a rag like the NATIONAL INQUIRER...as for you...it would appear your just another run of the mill sl attention whore.

No disrespect but maybe you should actually step outta yourself for a second and examine the reason why you felt compelled to start this thread.

jeesh....ambulance chasers.....

I chalk this whole controversy up to someone being bored and craving new drama.

As we have learned in this thread, this virtual U2 has existed for quite some time, starting off in There.com. Csven brings up the point that U2 in SL may not be self-serving at the moment but will it become self-serving in the future? Hmm...with such a long history already I would have to say that I highly doubt that would happen. And what self-serving even COULD arise? Dwell??? Thats going to be gone soon. And with the amount of time and energy it takes for each U2 in SL event, dwell becomes a non-factor because it is just not an event that you can sanely execute day after day for dwell or a popular places listing to even be worth it. Hell, after yesterdays 3 hour show which maxed at 88 avies and was holding steady at over 80 avies for the majority of the event, the dwell (or traffic..pardon me) was just under 20,000 and couldn't even touch Popular Places.

U2 in SL, as long as I can recall but someone correct me if I am wrong, has always been completely FREE and does not even ASK for donations to be made to the causes it promotes...it solely brings AWARENESS to some world issues through a very creative and enjoyable event within our little world of SL. Thats it. Period. The end.

I DO understand people bringing up the copyright issues, however I think zoning in on this particular event/group is just petty and uncalled for. BUT on the other hand, yeah its more publicity for the causes that U2 in SL is trying to raise awareness of, such as One.org, makepovertyhistory.org, etc. It just may turn out to be a win-win situation afterall.

I know exactly why

a) I didn't raise this issue last year
b) I'm raising it now
c) I'm asking these questions at all

I'd point out, I've not directly attacked this group. I've raised questions, voiced doubts and asked people to consider possibilities.

Apparently you've not bothered to listen yourself or you'd realize I've neither directly criticized nor attacked this Event. If I have, please point that out. Perhaps then you could take the time to answer the questions I've posed in this thread which are relevant beyond this group.

If, however, the questions themselves are considered somehow to be an attack, then there's little I can do in response. I realize that Freedom of Thought is increasingly under attack IRL; however, I was not aware that Big Brother had entered SL demanding similar restraints. Apparently I'm mistaken in that regard.

Why does this seem to bother you so much? It's an event, it's fun, it's free and it's something different in a sea of casinos, pixelated naked dancers and sex balls. I had a good time at the concert, it was a refreshing change of pace.

And if it calls attention to a good cause, all the better.

I'll repeat: this doesn't "bother" me.

My interest is not new. I followed the discussion last year with great interest.

My restraint in asking these questions, however, was removed after being publically attacked by a member of the group for doing nothing more than voicing doubts; not attacks. Had there been more restraint on the part of a group member, I'd not be asking questions which are now being perceived as attacks by people who don't understand that this is bigger than an occasional SL event.

"What would Bono say?"

IMO he would probably thank the Artist for the excellent job creating an Avatar that looks so much like him and also thankful they are making the residents of SL aware of his charitable causes.

Hmmmm so your doing this as retaliation against a percieved 'attack' by someone?

I believe Csven has his answer to why people think he is attacking U2 in SL specifically.

Self serving much?

btw.. I liked the part later on Tony's blog where Csven linked to this thread so he could follow along..'waves at Tony

Now, for something completely unexpected...I AGREE with Csven that he is raising a valid concern, but saddly, he has now tainted that concern under the umbrella of "I'm gonna get even with them."

Your admission now leaves in doubt your genuine motivation. Now...if you HAD spoken to the group privately, maybe expressed your anger at Demian and perhaps had a meeting of minds BEFORE posting.. you may have found out that they might have been willing to work with you to make things even more transparent as you claim you want. The old, "treat me with respect or I'll drag you through the mud" concept is not something anyone would respond well too, and again, if you took the time to get to know this group, its not something that would phase any of them.

No.

I merely decided - on the rude prompting of a group member - to no longer restrain myself from asking some questions I've had since last summer.

Thasnk you for admitting that my prior post was correct.

I don't see how providing a link on someone else's blog serves me other than to communicate the location of a continuing conversation.

btw, if you go looking, you'll see I also have a blog and I've even belatedly mentioned the links that spawned this thread... but nothing more. You'll also notice that my blog has no advertising. You'll also notice I'm not selling anything inside SL. You'll further notice I'm not affiliated with the videogame industry.

So I'm curious to know how this would serve me. Please explain. If it's a good theory, I might even implement it!



Please read my previous post. There is a difference between "getting even" and simply no longer remaining quiet about what even YOU now claim is a "valid concern".



My motivation might surprise people. But there are those who wouldn't be surprised at all.

otoh, you're advise would have been better given to the group and their supporters. At no time have a called people names (like "fucktard" and at no time have I attacked anyone.

What does concern me is that important causes become fodder for the role play of over 18 children. What does concern me is the opportunity for abuse of these sorts of awareness-raising events. What does concern me is how people can leverage what appears to be concern to aquire non-obvious personal gain.

Perhaps if my questions were answered, my concerns would melt away.

If "retaliation" means no longer imposing self-restraints on questions which raise "valid concerns", then that is a definition with which I'm unfamiliar.

Thank you for enlightening us all.

Demian apologized for that: /108/58/90578/1.html

On the issue of self serving in your own words:


You started this thread out of anger. You claim it is because you are no longer going to restrain yourself, again..why? Because you got pissed off?

I have read enough of your posts to know that you do not just sit around and let things go unless, perhaps, you didn't feel you had enough of a case TO bring to the forums. The issue of the ripped off Nissans were a lot more clear cut and concise. This is not.

What I agree is a valid issue, is whether or not fans have the right to bring into virtual space what may have been acceptable in the 2D world of webpages. In this case such things as Fan Fiction and Fan Art, (I would classify role play and creating virtual likenesses as either of these) are generally acceptable as long as no profit is made from it. However, the hardest to justify is the use of the music. U2 may claim they are not bothered, but does U2 have the legal right to say, "its okay." U2 to my knowledge is signed by a record label. What would that label say to the unauthorized re broadcast would be the better question.

Raising awareness is important, but I see Csven's point that should the record label disagree with that case, that kind of publicity could very well backfire on the very causes that a Fan group like U2 in SL would support.

So yes, I am capable of seeing that point. I'm also capable of seeing a bruised ego acting in a manner under the guise of concern, and so has everyone else. One does not have to use terms like F*cktard, to be condesencding and rude. How about YOU dropping YOUR forcefield for a moment and seeing your part in this drama and how so many people are reacting the way they are, and then maybe we can have productive discussion under the topic of how can fans bring their love for their specific interests into 3D space without violating these grey areas?

Good for him.

In the meantime, while people are busy trying to figure out how this serves me, may I ask why they're not asking the same of those staging these events?

I don't sell things in SL. Do any of the people involved in this sell things in SL? Seems like an obvious question. Further, do any of them use the things from these events to help promote product - even if only by word of mouth - that they might be selling? Do they, in effect, have the potential to leverage this important cause and the reputations of real people to gain something??? And if there is the possibility for an appearance of impropriety, how could they silence their critics?

Your quite welcome

But, your 'concerns' lead me to belive that the words you had with some member caused you to raise the 'concerns' not the concerns themselves.

No. I didn't start this out of anger. That would assume I give someone with a foul mouth more credit than he deserves. I started it out wondering why I even bothered to hold my tongue.



That's because you don't know me. There are those who've sent me messages via this forum - in support of the questions I'm asking here, but unwilling to be open (perhaps in fear of retaliation) - who understand why I'm asking these things.



I'm glad you brought that up and not me. I recall the posts with links to the band's position on sharing bootlegs. I also recall Bono's comments while receiving last years TED prize (they weren't so generous).

While the band might publically say they're okay with people sharing their music, the label and its lawyers may have a problem with this... and quite likely do. I don't recall who it was, but it wasn't long ago that another musician made the same comments and the label made a public announcement to the contrary. In this day and age, I doubt many bands are going to follow Metallica's lead, wouldn't you agree?

In the end, afaik, it's the label that calls the shots. However, that is not my concern here.



I don't know if it would harm the cause. There are other dangers.



If you believe that having some anonymous individual insult me is enough to bruise my ego, let me just assure you it is fully intact and unbruised.



I agree. But turnabout is fair play afaic. Consider this "roleplay".



I believe I've made several attempts to address issues without directly pointing to this group. Til now, my questions have been ignored in favor of attacking me. Perhaps you'd like to address those issues and help me try to do what you're now suggesting.

You may, of course, believe whatever you wish. You can have all the doubts you like. But unlike others, I won't attack you for those doubts.

Now, how about my questions regarding whether any of the people behind "U2 in SL" {have something to gain}. I'm curious to hear.

I could ask the same thing about some of the groups you are in.... what if any are the ulterior motives behind them? Many times people disagree with someones 'concerns'. Those should not be considered attacks. If someone disagrees, they simply disagree. I've often seen threads like this, claiming a concern but when others dont see these concerns, they are accused of attacking the OP.

By all means ask those questions. I have no stake in those groups. If they were to disappear today I'd have no qualms about that.

As for attacks, I'm specifically talking about suggesting I have my head up my ass, that I need to shut the fuck up (edited after the fact), aso. Those are attacks.

Now, do any of the members of "U2 in SL" sell product in SL? and if so, do they use their association with this event to help promote themselves in any way?

no they dont.... Do you sell anything inworld? Do you in anyway use the association in groups your in to promote yourself in any way?

There's contradictory info here . . . I mean, I read about this stuff on the forums a long time ago. It bugged me, so I did some digging.

"U2 in SL" says here they aren't doing fundraising. The latest "U2 in SL" show didn't raise funds. However, this other one did: /120/1c/61195/1.html

Also, in this current thread it was stated that U2 didn't respond to inquiries. However, in this other thread, when asked if U2 had okayed this stuff ( /120/0c/52390/1.html), "U2 in SL" said: "YES, U2's management, Principle Management in Dublin, is aware of the project and so are ONE.org and DATA.org."

Non-response doesn't equate to approval.

I'm afraid earlier posts gave me the misimpression that the band U2 had *approved* of this use of their IP. Here I was, all this time, still thinking how very cool it was that these folks got the approval to do this and everything. I feel I was misled.

So really, it's not cool at all.

They don't? I've just been informed otherwise. Now this is interesting. Perhaps investigation is in order.



No. But feel free to waste your timing looking. But out of charity, I'll tell you straight up I'm after bigger fish.



No. But feel free to try to find anything. And ask allllll the questions you like.