An Open Letter To Linden Lab

I agree with the direction of this, although from #4 on could get dicey. What if the largest landowner in a region is having a negative effect on it's neighbors, what if the largest landowner in a region is the newest and hasn't as much time invested there. Would there be a way to auction the land just to those adjacent landowners?

p.s. I can see how the "level of interest" an adjacent landowner has in an available parcel would play a valuable role in this situation.

Yeh, it's not perfect. And of course Andrew may be able to easily implement "set for sale to any of these landowners", which is probably what I'd try and implement myself... I was just thinking of what could be done without messing around too much with the user interface.

true enough... but i still say weedy got gom'd.

that it was a business that most people don't like doesn't change that fact.

I would add that in that particular business venture, Weedy seemed to go to great lengths to make it a respectable endeavor. It is a an uphill battle to make a go of something that usually carries such a negative connotation with it.

Added:

I can understand Weedy feeling the need to "fly under the radar." Historically, the perception of folks who use land scanners has not been positive.

I remember when land speculation first began taking off and Anshe Chung getting a lot of scrutiny for being such a visible and major player. There were smaller land dealers who also flew under the radar for similar reasons.

i tend to read this as, "sl is a toy, don't do business here...."

and yet sl touts how much money people make in sl...

so is sl a business platform or not?

Ok, I admit I've not been keeping as close an eye on this thread so maybe I missed something. So let me ask this question to clear up my understanding.

By this change, and doing what they are doing now, is LL actually generating real world $ income like Weedy and others like her were before? If so, please explain how.

Everything I've read so far seems to indicate this is less a case of unfair competition to build a business monopoly and more one of a business model that just no longer works because of changing "government" regulation.

so before people like weedy would get the land and sell it for l$. which they then sell for us$. which, by the way, ll got a cut of because ll owns the exchange.

now ll has all the land that people with land scanners used to have, and ll (eventually) will auction this land off on the website for us$.

thus the money that used to go into user hands now goes to ll's hands.

i didn't like land scanning, and i wish it didn't happen (in the past). and i hope it doesn't continue (or resume) in the future.

but it still looks like land scanning was within the tos... and land scanning was used to run a type of business in the "free market" that is sl. however, that business is no longer viable for users because ll has decided to go into that business themselves (without using scanners but instead using their huge advantage of having access to the code base and admin tools).

This is very good question. It is something has me deeply concerned as well.

First of all, I am adamantly opposed in Governor Linden becoming more involved in land sales. The only exception being, if residents renege or abscond on tier payments. It stands to reason that LL should recover costs for back payments and return the balance to to abscondee. Period. Taking abandoned land, selling at auction and selling for USD amounts to little more than competition to resident land dealers and benefits LL only.

This brings us to an interesting crossroads. Dealing with abandoned particularily for auction requires some Linden involvement, therefore is it reasonable to cover those costs? My response to that is no, because it amounts to competition with it's residents.

With that, The governor should only retain land which Andrew describes as "reclaimed".

Land which has been abandoned, should only be held in trust until residents can claim it, whatever that method may be. There have been some good suggestions made here.

It is also very important to consider economic factors here. Auctioning abandoned land to an end user is not an economic stimulator, in fact, it's quite the opposite. Before, I would buy the land, using piad tier, sell the land to someone with paid tier, who would then sell to an end user with paid tier. I fail to see how Governor Linden getting land for nothing, collecting USD for the land to end user being good for the health of the Linden dollar. Collecting Lindens for the land is no better, while it may be a money sink, it was done in an subsidized manner. Not to mention a loss of opportunity for land dealers.

So to summarize, all abandoned land, must be universally available to all residents at a wholesale level.

Which amounts to GOMing. I will stand by this point until I see something in action to the contrary.

Land scanning was within the rules, I conducted my business with fairness. I was not consulted as to alternatives. I had my throat cut by a half-baked update.

It was a handful of residents (more residents than GOM) who were involved in land scanning, performing a service so LL didn't have to. Now they caved in to proposals (which I have not seen, when checking back) and created this situation as we know it.

I also thank you for your candor. I realize you didn't like scanning per se, but understand it was within the rules.

Cristiano, I disagree with your assertion that this was a "loophole" when in fact, it was something that was universal to every premium resident in Second Life.

Not. It's a toy. It doesn't have anywhere near the feature-completeness or support required to qualify as a business platform. And, in spite of (literally) *years* of requests, critical features that could help it become a business platform are being ignored.

Two-way XML-RPC? "too easy to grief"
Return code for llGiveMoney() et al.? "too hard to work into the existing codebase"
TOS that doesn't disavow LL of all responsibility to their customers? "don't worry about it"
etc.
etc.
etc.

It's a business platform if your business is making shiny things for other players. Otherwise, forget it.

Abandoned land, by choice or by defaulting on tier should go to LL - it is their resource to sell. If the land ultimately goes back into Find Land for $1/m or whatever price, you will be buying it from LL. When the land defaulted or was released, the few people using scanners also bought it from LL - at $1/m. Sorry, there is no situation here where LL is now the middle man - they are changing the process through which that land is resold, that is all. It is theirs to do with as they please, they are their server resources. Using a scanner doesn't suddenly entitle you to that land, just because you were able to for awhile.

I feel for Weedy's lost business of course, and I do appreciate Andrew taking part in this discussion.

The only thing I would ask for in all this is that when land is reclaimed by Governor Linden, all the items in it should be returned to the owner. Say after a week?

The grid is cluttered enough as it is. There's no reason to leave abandoned prims lying around.

Perhaps you could add it to your Big List of Things To Do?

Wrong....... it's our resourse. LL got paid for it. And then some.



Let's look at a hypothetical situation for a moment. Don't get me wrong, I think your animations are nothing less than as excellent and I wholly support your business. As you know, I own every dance anim you created.

Your business is based upon a "loophole" which is basically an exploit in the shortcomings of the Second Life client. Animation creation is not equally available to SL residents. So let's say Linden Lab decided to include animation tools into the client. Or if POSER was to meet with LL and offer every resident a version of the lastest software at a reduced price, where LL would get a dollar for each one sold.

I mean, what could be so wrong with giving everyone universal access to animation tools. POSER wins, LL wins, residents win. Cristiano loses. I'm sure you would not be impressed. Would this be co-option? In my opinion..yes.

What I am saying is this, Cris. I am not convinced (yet) that LL is not playing middle man. In fact the tools which were supposed to be the solution to this have yet to be created. I will believe it when I see it, not before....no matter what you say.

Linden Lab holds title to the servers, full stop. You just get to borrow bits of them for awhile.

You say "our" with a sense of entitlement just because you magically scanned and found out someone released it - but you are buying it from LL right now and that doesn't seem to bother you. The only thing that bothers you is now you will have to compete against others who will also be trying to buy the same land, now from the Find Land list instead of you getting a nice little auto-notification from your scanner. You are still buying it from LL - nothing has changed except they won't let you automate your way to profit - now you actually have to do something, namely find the land on the open for sale market and buy it.

'

Your analogy is completely flawed, Weedy. Animation creation is available to all residents - there are several free alternatives available to Poser, as well as Poser itself. If you want to make money, it is not unreasonable to have to spend money to do so. In order for you to profit off the land you were reselling, you first had to outlay money to do so - you recouped your costs in the sales. If LL were to build animation creation tools right into the client, it would make no difference, and would not have any effect on my business. In fact I hope they do so dramatically increase the animation features available in SL.

As I have said, I am not unsympathetic to you being unhappy about this change. What I am taking issue with is the way it is being portrayed and characterized. No one has been GOMmed (I hate that stupid reference anyway) - you are pissed off because now you won't be able to auto-scan for the land and get it at $1/m as easily. Call a spade a spade, just don't pretend this is some big co-option on LL's part where they are suddenly going to be the one making all the money off of this. Hell, L$ sales of land don't benefit them at all anyway.

There you go putting words in my mouth again, in case you missed it, I said I will only beleive it when I see it "no matter what you say".

DID YOU READ THE FINE PRINT?

2.5 Account.
By using the Service you agree that even though you may retain certain copyright or other intellectual property rights with respect to works you create (your "Content," as defined in Section 6.1 below) while using the Service (as specified in Section 5.3 below), you do not own the account you use to access the Service, nor do you own any data Linden stores on Linden servers (including without limitation any data representing or embodying any or all of your Content).

7.3 Changes.
Linden has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as it sees fit in its sole discretion

are you talking about this?

I need to touch on this point at this time. If this is the crux of the issue, I would be interested in seeing some data as to the ratio of released land v complaints.

As many of you know, much of these disputes were resolved on the spot. When I encountered a group dispute for example, before returning the land I would do a few things first. Firstly, I would ask for the names of all officers involved. Secondly, I would check the ownership of the objects, which would confirm the first point. Thirdly, I would check the names of the officers against the group list to confirm that the correct land tier contribution was allocated to the group. More often than not, the one who made the contribution would carry the most weight in negotiating the return. Sometimes tier contribution was equal among group members, in which case, so long as all parties were on the same track, I would go from there. I have seen instances where equal contributors of tier were at odds with each other. In these cases I would return the land to each party to the extent of thier contribution.



This statement is not necessarily correct. While individuals may have a clearcut case for returning land, I see group members getting the short end of the stick. Afterall it has been said time and time again "Linden Lab does not intervene into disputes between residents"

My next point...is really, really important folks.........

Many times, after claiming abandoned land, a group member would ask for a Linden Liason to attend. More often than not a liason would show up, see us there, investigating and mediating the situation. Several times (most times), they would observe in silence, allowing us to continue along the path of resolution. It has been said to me by some of these liasons, that I did something that they themselves were incapable of, such as holding the land in trust until a settlement was reached AND mediation of disputes between residents.

It's a better system.

I am not convinced that LL is willing to do this, particularily where group disputes occur.

I will comment further on your point here.

Land scanning also was available to all residents. There were free scanners available from the scripting forums as well as writing them yourself or having someone do it for you.

If you wanted to make money, it is not unreasonable to have to spend money to do so. I bought land to place scanners.

We are talking about exactly the same thing here.

7.3 Changes.
Linden has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to change and/or eliminate any aspect(s) of the Service as it sees fit in its sole discretion

THE END

But Cristiano, anybody can use a land scanner if they want to. So scanning land is available to everyone.

coco

......you are?.......and your point would be?

Last time I checked....this was an open forum and I can offer any suggestion and criticism as I see fit.

LL should not change its business interests to satisfy one person.

THAT is bs.

Go Philip!!

yeah. as can i