An Open Letter To Linden Lab
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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03-21-2006 17:22
From: Jauani Wu every change will negatively impact somebody. people who rely on the sl's internal economy are taking a large risk. people who rely on sl's external economy are taking a lesser risk.
when risk is high, rewards are high.
people who seek stability should not make life plans based on SL income. It's a good point, but what do you mean (precisely) by internal versus external? I assume you mean that "content" is external? How about when LL breaks content by changing LSL functionality .. I generally rely on that not changing with out some due notification. I have been very suprised to learn that LL does not feel necessary to notify us clearly when they are planning on making significant changes. I can't spend huge amounts of time constantly reading the subtleties of every thread looking for hints of how they're going to change the technology I base everything I do on. This is not a way to work in a serious manner. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 17:23
From: Cocoanut Cookie Well, in my view, companies that tout "Your World, Your Imagination" and making real money in that world shouldn't be in the business of putting residents' businesses out of business.
So see, we are at a standoff.
coco I have to agree with Jauani - there was a high risk/reward ratio to the public land thing. It was also a customer service nightmare for LL. There is no guarantee that anything you decide to do in SL and potentially make money off of is then suddenly off limits from any change. If that were the case, many peoples of functionality we now have would be impossible for LL to implement. Kris Ritter made an excellent dance machine prior to custom animations that was rendered irrelevant by 1.4. Francis Chung and Rathe Underthorn made the ROAM device, negated by P2P. Progress cannot be held up simply out of fear of affecting someone's business. Consideration can certainly be taken as to the impact, but the deciding factor cannot be to deny many for the benefit of a few.
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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03-21-2006 17:24
From: Nolan Nash Yes, except this won't be detectable like public land was. Will it not show up in the find sales list? |
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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03-21-2006 17:28
From: Cocoanut Cookie Well, in my view, companies that tout "Your World, Your Imagination" and making real money in that world shouldn't be in the business of putting residents' businesses out of business.
So see, we are at a standoff.
coco that's because you think exploitation can qualify as a business. businesses should create value. land scanning is not a value added service. "omg i used to eat out of that restaurants trash bin but now they send everything away for composting!"
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 17:28
From: Iron Perth It's a good point, but what do you mean (precisely) by internal versus external? I assume you mean that "content" is external?
How about when LL breaks content by changing LSL functionality .. I generally rely on that not changing with out some due notification.
I have been very suprised to learn that LL does not feel necessary to notify us clearly when they are planning on making significant changes.
I can't spend huge amounts of time constantly reading the subtleties of every thread looking for hints of how they're going to change the technology I base everything I do on.
This is not a way to work in a serious manner. Backward compatability is a difficult thing to face. Many of the new features we want - improved permissions, new graphics engines, more advanced avatars, better animations, etc.. all run the risk of breaking existing content. An enormous amount of planning has to go into backward compatability often times, and sometimes retaining backward compatability would require unacceptable tradeoffs to the new functionality. It is a reality of the software world, and a reality of progress. It is made trickier by the fact that we pay for this content. As far as them suddenly making a snap change - um, it took them several years to implement this change - I wouldn't exactly call that rushed. Public land grabbing has always been a risk.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-21-2006 17:30
From: Cristiano Midnight Weedy,
While I am sympathetic to the change in your business fortunes, there is one issue that sticks in my mind and makes it difficult for me to be upset by this change in any way. Everyone dealing with public land was profitting off of free land ($1/m does not count since you turn right back around and recoup that). You weren't a land reseller in the traditional sense. You did not buy this land at auction, or buy it from someone else. Through the use of scanners and other means, you competed for a free resource that really had no reason to be free, and then turned around and made money off of that. Had Linden Lab made some change that altered normal land transactions, I would agree with the outrage. This to me just seems to be finally closing an unfair gap in the land market that people were feeding off of.
I was a land reseller Cris, likewise most of the people who bought land from me would resell. Sales makes the world go round. I fail to see how LL get the land for free and selling to end users at auction benefits anyone but LL. Scanning for public land was not unfair at all. Every person in SL had the right to place a scanner within their own land, offering them a fair shot at getting land within the same sim. |
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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03-21-2006 17:32
From: Iron Perth It's a good point, but what do you mean (precisely) by internal versus external? I assume you mean that "content" is external?
How about when LL breaks content by changing LSL functionality .. I generally rely on that not changing with out some due notification.
I have been very suprised to learn that LL does not feel necessary to notify us clearly when they are planning on making significant changes.
I can't spend huge amounts of time constantly reading the subtleties of every thread looking for hints of how they're going to change the technology I base everything I do on.
This is not a way to work in a serious manner. internal is a L$ linked economy of content creators, land barons, and sl-escorts. external is the USD linked econmy of contracted developers. changing public land is not a platform change. it's a data management change. i don't even know zeros from one, but i'm pretty sure i'm right about that. whatever your beef is, i think you are jumping on the wrong bandwagon to air it. public land exploits are not an sl business.
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Jauani Wu
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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03-21-2006 17:32
Certainly, backwards compatibility is a challenge. In those cases where it is deemed technologically impossible to maintain, then LL can announce that they are breaking existing content.
Perhaps they could set up an blog with RSS subscriptions that they could post to when they're breaking content.
As for the former issue, I think this was generally a misunderstanding on everyone's part because it *appears* that public land is still being released.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-21-2006 17:34
From: Andrew Linden After a week each parcel will be put up for sale for L$1/sq meter, which means they will be available for the same price as claiming public land. You gotta be fucking kidding me? So now the land swoopers get it. |
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Kyrah Abattoir
cruelty delight
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,786
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03-21-2006 17:35
Weedy whatever you say will not change the fact you whine Linden labs removed your ability to play vulture land baron, and it's all good, profitering of loophole and hoarding resources for scanning it is really not the good mindset
WRONG
so well this open letter isprobably making linden labs Laugh out loud
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Francis Chung
This sentence no verb.
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 918
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03-21-2006 17:35
From: Andrew Linden Since this is an open letter, and I happen to know more about it than anybody else I'll address it.
[many details snip]
Hey, thanks Andrew. What happens to parcels that are >512m? Incidentally, I think this is just the kind of responses LL needs to make more of. 1] Description of the problem(s) 2] Why the problem needs solving 3] How the decision is reached to solve the problem 4] How the solution to the problem works 5] Technical explanation of what the changes are There are a whole whack of things that I'd love to hear answers on such as: - Why was point-to-point teleporting switched back on? Why was the decision made so suddenly with relatively little warning? Why was it turned off in the first place? - Why was it necessary to create LindeX in a way that didn't include other currency trading businesses, such as GOM?
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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03-21-2006 17:35
land swoopers!
a new chapter!
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Jauani Wu
hero of justice
__________________________________________________
"Oh Jauani, you're terrible." - khamon fate
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Cocoanut Cookie
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Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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03-21-2006 17:36
From: Cristiano Midnight Note the giant L in front of $1 (emphasis mine) Hahahaha - as you can see (no doubt with your patience correspondingly somewhat tried), I am not reading so well today!!!! And consequently saying a fair amount of stupid stuff! The same could be said for last night! lol My mother is in the hospital, and I'm running on 3 hours sleep. Nothing too serious, but as always, it is something that plays havoc with your regular sleeping hours, and the rest of the time you are sort of on hold, hanging by the phone, etc.. Warning: Do not expect me to actually see and read all letters, numerals, dashes, apostrophies, or anything smaller than my fist until I get some decent sleep! I will be making errors! I should probably just shut up while I'm not too far behind! coco |
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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03-21-2006 17:36
From: Jauani Wu internal is a L$ linked economy of content creators, land barons, and sl-escorts.
external is the USD linked econmy of contracted developers.
changing public land is not a platform change. it's a data management change. i don't even know zeros from one, but i'm pretty sure i'm right about that. whatever your beef is, i think you are jumping on the wrong bandwagon to air it. public land exploits are not an sl business. Well, I think we need to set this issue aside for the meanwhile until we are more clear on what exactly has changed. It *appears* that public land is still being released. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 17:37
From: Weedy Herbst You gotta be fucking kidding me?
So now the land swoopers get it. How pray tell is a "land swooper" any different than what you were doing?
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-21-2006 17:37
From: Kyrah Abattoir Weedy whatever you say will not change the fact you whine Linden labs removed your ability to play vulture land baron, and it's all good, profitering of loophole and hoarding resources for scanning it is really not the good mindset
WRONG
so well this open letter isprobably making linden labs Laugh out loud Get a clue. There are vultures who troll the land list constantly. I guess they are more worthy huh? |
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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03-21-2006 17:38
From: Iron Perth Will it not show up in the find sales list? We'll need more info to ascertain that. What Andrew has said seems to contradict what (I thought) I heard a few days ago, which is that the land would go to auction. That's if I understand what Andrew is saying properly, of which I am unsure, because he didn't really make that totally clear. What I mean is, you won't be able to scan for it the way it was possible to scan for public land before, with a script.
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 17:39
From: Weedy Herbst Get a clue.
There are vultures who troll the land list constantly.
I guess they are more worthy huh? Yet those who use a script to do it automatically for them are more worthy?
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Cocoanut Cookie
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Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,741
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03-21-2006 17:39
From: Nolan Nash Yes, except this won't be detectable like public land was. OK, now, bearing in mind that I'm fairly stupid today, explain to me . . . how can people know to buy it if it's not detectable? coco |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-21-2006 17:41
From: Cristiano Midnight How pray tell is a "land swooper" any different than what you were doing? The difference being, LL upheld land scanning as acceptable practice, and I built a business around it. Now they take it away , only to reimpliment it in another form, with the same result. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 17:41
From: Cocoanut Cookie OK, now, bearing in mind that I'm fairly stupid today, explain to me . . . how can people know to buy it if it's not detectable?
coco By finding it on the list of land for sale. It becomes a manual process of looking at the land list and being lucky enough to find a piece of land for sale for $1/m instead of having a nice script doing the work for you constantly scanning a sim looking for land that has become public.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-21-2006 17:42
From: Cocoanut Cookie OK, now, bearing in mind that I'm fairly stupid today, explain to me . . . how can people know to buy it if it's not detectable?
coco From the "find" "land for sale list" I can see the pileups and pissing matches already. Not to mention the invitation to yet more vultures. |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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03-21-2006 17:43
From: Weedy Herbst The difference being, LL upheld land scanning as acceptable practice, and I built a business around it.
Now they take it away , only to reimpliment it in another form, with the same result. No, it is a very different result. There is no automated way to find land on the land for sale list. Thus, it would actually require doing something in order to obtain that land, namely buying it on the open market like anyone else.
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Iron Perth
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Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
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03-21-2006 17:44
Just a thought, but I'm not sure any of us knows precisely what's going to happen. Maybe a wait and see approach might work best here.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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03-21-2006 17:44
From: Jauani Wu . land scanning is not a value added service.
Blasphemy |
