"Age play" in SL

However, it is not illegal in the U.S. It is completely legal to create artificial "child" pornography not containing any real children, and this has been upheld by the Supreme Court.

http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-795.ZS.html

This is an obvious open-and-shut First Amendment case, and it takes a spectacularly evil mind to try to steal freedom of expression from people just because you don't like their expression.

IMO, the only reason "simulated child pornography" is confusing at all to some is that having children causes brain damage (from hormonal changes, lack of sleep, and the high-pitched whine of their verminous offspring), and makes them unable to reason sanely about anyone under 4' tall (how do you parents feel about midgets having sex, with each other or with full-size adults?). It's not their fault, but parents should not be allowed to make decisions which will affect adults who still have their rational faculties.

I stand corrected then, but do not assume this will not continuely be challenged especially if such images are mixed in with actual images of children on the confiscated hard drive. If a common link is created in enough cases, a sharp DA will make it.



What I see that is objectionable is the image of a child in a mature situtation. All of your other examples do not fit that criteria. However, your statement illustrates what the real offense here is. Its not that adults are being allowed to pursue a fantasy, but that they are taking the fantasy to the fullest point using child avatars. In real life this would be impossible, and hense why age play is not a crime.

-Taylor

more importantly, all the sexy schoolgirl outfits in SL should be discontinued and deleted because they positively encourage it!

But this is the same kind of argument many have used when they find the image of a Furry objectionable in a mature situation.

The Avatar I use in Second Life is a dog. Say I was interested in 'Doggie' roleplay in real life (I'm not). In real life, it is impossible for me to truly be a dog, so if I were to engage in sex with a human, that would not be illegal, even if I was roleplaying as a dog in RL.

Not that I'm interested in pixelsex in the least - but are you suggesting that because I wear a dog AV that it should be a *crime* for me to engage in Mature behavior in the Metaverse?

I'm quite happy being celebate in SL - but that should be MY choice.

What ever way you look at it, playing with a group of pixels in a daft game is got to be better for these people than having photos of real victims. Nobody is harmed except some people's sense of 'moral' outrage. Who is the Daddy anyhow?

OMG avsploitaition!

Here boy! C'mon! Rollover! Show me your tummy! That's a GOOD doggie. Yes you are! Who's a good boy? Who's a good boy?!

I bet you're all turned on now, huh?

Oh sorry. Y'all can go back to your serious thread now.

Ooops is that a pencil I dropped

I would also like to point out one thing ... you all talk at length about child abuse ... but have you ever seen any ageplay scene once ? I did ... I am not found of it but I saw one once and what did I see ?

a college girl dressed like most of our little flirty SL girls do from time to time, thight sexy shorts, white socks and top barelly covering the breats, teasing and flirting with her teacher. There has never been any idea of ABUSE in it. I am not a specialist of age play but from what I heared (and what I searched as when I speak of a subject I like to at least read a bit about it not like some people I saw posting here) abuse has never been in any way part of an age play scene.

Now here is the part where I will be flamed down because this made me so mad that I HAVE to rant a bit : all of the most prudish and conservative and narrow minded comments came from american people .... but isn't this the country where in some state sodomy is illegal ? where you can freely buy a gun and go shoot your neighbour ? where there's the most perveted sort of porn ? ... I am not making generalities and I know a lot of american people that are open minded and tolerent .... but to the prudish, narrow minded, intolerent and stubborn as----les that posted their comments I would say like we do in France "look at the beam in your eye before looking at the straw in your neighbour's"


Oh and last point ... SL is nothing but a F.....G GAME bare with it and stop trying to always make transcription into RL FFS !

LOL

<gives Kris a big slobbery wet kiss>

*shrugs* I'm going to post just as many scientific studies that say age play promotes child molestation as you will, Lisse, showing age play to be a healthy, safe sexual outlet for otherwise illegal sexual attractions.

Anyhow, I really don't care whether anyone feels that simulated child rape is within their rights as a pixel person or not. I don't accept it and I never will. If it's going to permitted in SL then make sure it stays in private. If it's around me, I'll do my best to spoil the fantasy. That will be part of my free speech...

tis a slippery slope indeed

and FYI, the precedent has been set for "profiling" people based on 100% legal, adult on adult, pornography

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-10-17-utah-porn_x.htm?csp=36

figures it would be Utah

oh gosh. i'm dyin with laughin here. get a grip folks. sex is fun. kinky sex is funner. shooting people in games -- also lots and lots of fun. its a GAME. a FANTASY. no it is not a step away from doing it irl (unless you already do but then i'd have to say SL is just a step away from RL and not the reverse). But I digress..

There are some 5 million people (I don't have exact numbers -- could be more) playing online games in the world. Probably a good half of them have had some sort of online relationship/sex/thing. If doing deviant things (and I use the word deviant here to mean a departure from what is considered normal and not a judgement on right or wrong) in online games were just a step away from real life, the problem would have presented itself by now. It has not.

People have been having the kinky sexxors and the funky roleplaying in online games/chats/whathave you since these modes of interaction became available in the early 90s. Its not that big of a deal. If you don't like it, don't do it. Otherwise leave consenting adults alone to do what they want to do in the confines of private space.

David, it's a virtual world - a point that you seem to keep missing. A virtual world is - by definition - an anonymous world of the mind. While you might be able to make such a legalistic point in the physical world of reality, you cannot speak of adults playing sex games with children in an anonymous world of the mind, and yet make the claim that children are not involved.

Of course they are. Think about it from the powerful and persuasive perspective of a virtual world - and with all the relevant implications for the real one.

Appropos of wrong assumptions, you also seem to think that I support some sort of "policing" of consensual virtual sex in Second Life. I do not. Once again, I merely make two points:

1. All adults have a responsibility toward children because of their condition and status in society. That responsibility applies everywhere, without exception, including in the mind, the bedroom, and a virtual world.

2. You cannot ignore the third partner in the act of pedophilac sex, when two adults are involved in mind games in a virtual world. And that third partner never consents. He or she cannot - by definition.

he or she does not in fact, exist anywhere but in ones own mind

the sole reason child porn is illegal in the US is because a child has to be victimized for it to be created

you take the child out of the equation, and it is free expression.

and your 3rd partner simply does not exsist in reality, and if an imagined 3rd partner exsists, it is only in the mind of a consenting adult

No. Sorry. Wrong.

All adults do NOT have a responsibility towards children. You want to have kids, they are YOUR responsibility. Not mine. Not society's. Not the government's. YOURS.

When two adults are involved in mind games there are two adults. There is no virtual third party.

Can we just put the thought police to death now?

oh and forgot to add ... what would you think if the RL teacher spanking the naughty little college girl was a 15 years old girl ? ... ooo and let's go further ... what would you think if the naughty little schoolgirl was a tattoed 40 years old bodybuilder with a ZZ Top beard ?

come on ! yes you can never be sure of who is behind the keyboard .... but it is true in a way or another ... would can be sure the dom sitting next to you with his 4 subs isn't a teenager doming adults instead of each time stating the one "abused" is a child.


I will repeat once again ... and I thank Vivianne so much for saying the same :

SL is a GAME so stop seraching RL behaviours behind IG actions ... I have raped and killed a huge bunch of people in the different games I played ... but it has NEVER come to my mind that I could do it in RL FFS !

THANK YOU!

Now get out of my head

*sigh....

Once again, I am not speaking to the legal implications - I am speaking to the ethical responsibilities of adults in both the real world and a virtual world.

The continual drumbeat of dissimulation - obscuring the issue with appeals to women's rights, animal rights, legal implications in the real world, etc. - is interesting. But the basic point remains.

no you are not speaking of ethical responsibilities You are trying to impose YOUR morality on others. Others who have done absolutely nothing other than have thoughts, within the confines of their own minds and between two dissenting adults, that you happen to disagree with and/or find abhorrent. Therefore you wish to make an argument that these consenting adults, who have harmed no one and broken no laws, do not have said thoughts that you disagree with. YOUR morality. YOUR ethics. Imposed on someone else's thoughts -- not their actions -- their thoughts.

The only basic point that presents itself here is that there seem to be more than a few people who would restrict private behavior and/or thoughts between two consenting adults. That would be wrong. If you don't like it, don't do it. Otherwise leave these people alone.

yes the basic point remains ... age play is a kink between 2 consenting and responsible adults that has the very right to do what the f..k the want.

I don't believe I have said I object or wish to make my business the choice of adults to play as they please. I do have a problem with those that choose to do so with a "hot button issue." I see it as a dis-service to their own community of age playing adults.

For the most part furries in general are adult furries. I'm sure most of us accept that a furry is indeed a real human on the other side. I see it as pure fantasy with no real life conterpart. Unlike the specific examples we are talking here.

The issue is the pushing of the fantasy to such a limit that the majority of the community would find objectionable. IE...the community standard.

This is only my opinion for sure, but I see no purpose in the use of child avatars in this manner except for the shock value it creates as with the case of the child avatar wielding the over size penis in a mature club. Its to get a reaction by others, and I would say it succeeded.

Again, lets clarify. I do not believe one person in this thread is saying they are against consesual adult role play. What is being objected to is the extent to which that role play goes, and do we as a community have a right to say, in this specific case, it is too much in our community?

-Taylor

I'm afraid you're wrong. To hold such a view is to remove yourself from society, because one of society's penultimate purposes is the protection, nurturing, and care of children. And you cannot share in the benefits of society without recognizing and being responsible for the burdens.

If you doubt that this is one of society's penultimate purposes, then you need to read more. About everything. If you claim that you do not have this responsibility because you do not choose to have it, then I'd be interested to know how you plan on departing from society.

I guess I don't "get it"

my morality says the laws exist in real life to protect real children, and I agree

when you start talking about imaginary childrn, why don't you lobby to protect all the imaginary NPCs in other games from random murder, especially the low level ones with no chance to fight back? From what I gather, we have a responsibility to protect the weaker imaginary creatures for the sake of society

maybe I am dense, but I am not making the connection between reality and the imaginary child you are advocating for

Why should I care about your kids? Especially if you can't keep them in line, like knocking my cart over at the supermarket, or running in front of my car during busy traffic, or not shutting the fuck up at a movie theatre?

Your kids, your responsibility.

It takes a village to make a parent do his job, apparently.

LF