Noobs that lack common courtesy

I pay $0.00 in tier and support 0 sq m of land. I have, however, taken the Kula 2 sandbox under my wing, since only a few other #joiito members hang out on Kula. Not the same thing, you will undoubtly say. I see plenty of newbies every day, and I find that if you ask someone nicely, throw up your group tag, and don't get all high and mighty, they tend to comply.
Make no mistake, I'm not saying that all the mainland should be rule and access control free, I'm just saying that landowners should treat others how they'd like to be treated.

This thread has made me laugh.

I think the 'He randomly got naked and started dancing on the table' is what got me the most.

Ive met some god awful noobs recently, but then again ive met some brilliant people too.

What really pisses me off, I mean UTTERLY INFURIATES ME is begging, but thats another story.

It must have been the Live Help Tag they took it seriously

I find that works a treat also when i see a new guy dancing round naked i give them some clothes and tell them how to get dressed, apart from that theres nothing funnier than the sight of a unclothed avatar, but seriously tho, it does offend some people and i can accept that, tho if its that bad, they can always look away or, turn the monitor off for 10 mins while they go and make a cup of tea

Peace

Make sure you always wear good-looking outfits and that your avatar's appearance matches that of models you find in fashion magazines, always treat everyone in a way as if your life depends on them liking you, never EVER state how you feel about anything, don't try to get free money from chairs or dance pads, never ask any questions in SL (always use 3rd party forums instead), never say "HI" to anyone for any reason unless they first said "HI" to you first, never present yourself as a newbie for any aspect of SL, make sure you respect rules even if you don't know what they are and they don't have them posted anywhere, never get naked anywhere even if you're in an adult area labeled as a sex club, never use the map to explore anywhere (only use the search function), and make sure that you never fly over land that looks like there could be houses on it--if you do all these things, you actually -might- not offend anyone, but you never know--maybe someone won't like the color of your outfit.

One of the biggest draws for this type of alternate reality is the ability to do things that you can't do in real life. If land owners take the game so seriously that they get offended at all the same things as in real life, what's the point in playing SL?

The more I read about the trivial things people get offended at in SL, the less time I want to spend in SL. On average I now only go to SL every 5 days. It has lost almost all of the draw it originally had, mainly due to people who take it WAY too fucking seriously!

It may not be a game, but it IS an alternate reality where people can do things they can't in real life. Seriously, what's fun about being in an environment that simulates real life? It's reminding me of the movie Big, with Tom Hanks, who said "I don't get it. What's fun about that?" when he saw the robot-skyscraper toy.

People, please--please stop taking SL so fucking seriously! It's meant to be enjoyable for everyone, and this elitist attitude of it only being something that should be enjoyed by land owners is going to kill it someday, if it hasn't started to already. I know it has for me--like I said, I only go to it once every 5 days now. I've enjoyed the forums for the past month more than I have SL itself.

Curious snoopers? Curious snoopers?

What on earth has happened to Second Life. *sigh*

Just don't try that in real life. It does tend to worry prospective customers a tad.

You know, if someone ejects me, mutes me or bans me for accidently stumbling over their home i just assume they are not interessted in my company and stay away from them. SL is pretty big, with lots of interresting people, so it is no great loss if i have to ignore a few of them, and i always found it rude to force myself on people who are happier alone.

I replied to you personally, because the thread had formerly been about how to deal with a real issue. Then you were the first to jump in and get offended at the percieved "elitism".

Personally, I feel that you're seeing a whole hell of a lot of elitism where none exists. The people in this thread who've been having problems have mentioned that they're kind to noobies in general, and in fact were all noobies once themselves. Personally, my partner of over a year here in SL was a noobie who happened to randomly land at a friends place and whom my friends and I helped out.

Personally, I still help out new players when I run into them, by answering questions, giving them stuff, helping them find places, etc. and even showing them some of the stuff that my gf and I have built. I do this even when it means dropping what I'm doing myself and taking time out going over stuff that is old hat.

The *actualy* point of this thread is that the most recent batches of noobies is that have been coming in have been extremely rude and inconsiderate. The problem I have with the posts that you and a few others are making, is that you seem to hear "rude" and somehow translate it in your heads into, "insufficently subserviant", which is not at all what people are talking about.

This is not an "anti-imgration" thread, no one is calling for LL to close the doors and not let any new players in, so your anology fails there.

As to why I asked you about your land and how much you own is not "elitism", it's because I'm wondering just hom much of the behavior listed by the OP and others you've actually seen personally, and have had to deal with. That's not "elitism" although I will admit to an elemt of wondering if you'd be quite so sanguine about what the OP is dealing with if it were happen to you with the same degree of frequency, and with a place that you'd invested similar amounts of time and money in.

I hope that that explains where I'm coming from a bit better.

Although it seems theres people defending both the intruded and the intruders - Its not too much to ask guests to act like guests.

As far as I know it is not made clear to new people that much of SL is private residences and to ask them to be polite.

Of course it only takes a minimal level of intelligence to figure that out.

A simple "SL courtesy note" accompanying the "tp me out of the new area" part would be nice.

For those concerned with newbies rights - it could be very simple, since the OP wasnt complaining about nosy people - just rude ones.


Interesting that most of the common behaviors youd need to have to avoid offending people in SL you learn in kindegarden.

For the most part, that's what I try to do, and I suspect very strongly that that's what the OP does.

The point of this thread is, that I suspect that the OP, who also tries to treat people as she'd like to be treated, is simply fed up with too many people who *don't* do that. People who treat her as an NPC or an intruder on her own land or in her own house.

The reason I asked you about land and tier, is that there seems to be a lack of understanding on the part of some as to why anyone would want their lands and homes in SL treated more like they would be IRL, verses having SL as a vast, open to all playground.

The fact is, when you're paying $100 US a month for your land, unless you're planning to build a big, free for all playground as opposed to a home of your own, you *are* going to object to people treating it as a free playground.

That doesn't mean you want to keep everyone off at all times by putting up ban lines, but it generally does mean that you'd like people to behave with some politeness and consideration, and an apartness that they *are* in fact on someone else's property.

IMO, this is simply *not* elitism, and attempts to paint it as nasty elitism *are* going to get an argument from me and others, and are going to fail to convince.

For the most part, that's what I try to do, and I suspect very strongly that that's what the OP does.

The point of this thread is, that I suspect that the OP, who also tries to treat people as she'd like to be treated, is simply fed up with too many people who *don't* do that. People who treat her as an NPC or an intruder on her own land or in her own house.

The reason I asked you about land and tier, is that there seems to be a lack of understanding on the part of some as to why anyone would want their lands and homes in SL treated more like they would be IRL, verses having SL as a vast, open to all playground.

The fact is, when you're paying $100 US a month for your land, unless you're planning to build a big, free for all playground as opposed to a home of your own, you *are* going to object to people treating it as a free playground.

That doesn't mean you want to keep everyone off at all times by putting up ban lines, but it generally does mean that you'd like people to behave with some politeness and consideration, and an apartness that they *are* in fact on someone else's property.

IMO, this is simply *not* elitism, and attempts to paint it as nasty elitism *are* going to get an argument from me and others, and are going to fail to convince.

I replied to you personally, because the thread had formerly been about how to deal with a real issue. Then you were the first to jump in and get offended at the perceived "elitism".

Personally, I feel that you're seeing a whole hell of a lot of elitism where none exists. The people in this thread who've been having problems have mentioned that they're kind to noobies in general, and in fact were all noobies once themselves. Personally, my partner of over a year here in SL was a noobie who happened to randomly land at a friends place and whom my friends and I helped out.

Personally, I still help out new players when I run into them, by answering questions, giving them stuff, helping them find places, etc. and even showing them some of the stuff that my gf and I have built. I do this even when it means dropping what I'm doing myself and taking time out going over stuff that is old hat.

The *actually* point of this thread is that the most recent batches of noobies is that have been coming in have been extremely rude and inconsiderate. The problem I have with the posts that you and a few others are making, is that you seem to hear "rude" and somehow translate it in your heads into, "insufficiently subservient", which is not at all what people are talking about.

This is not an "anti- immigration" thread, no one is calling for LL to close the doors and not let any new players in, so your analogy fails there.

As to why I asked you about your land and how much you own is not "elitism", it's because I'm wondering just how much of the behavior listed by the OP and others you've actually seen personally, and have had to deal with. That's not "elitism" although I will admit to an element of wondering if you'd be quite so sanguine about what the OP is dealing with if it were happen to you with the same degree of frequency, and with a place that you'd invested similar amounts of time and money in.

I hope that that explains where I'm coming from a bit better.

See the RPing pirates thing would make me laugh my ass off, hell I'd probably put on my Jack Sparrow outfit and join in ^.~

I just laughed and asked them to "clean up when they were done"

It's not so much people visiting their land Thistle, as asshats visiting their residential dwellings and being, well, asshats. There is little publicly owned areas in SL, but there are tons of privately owned areas open to the public, everything from strip clubs to malls to company offices to parks to open sandboxes. There are plenty of roads (or at least there were around the mall I teleported to out of help island, Luna Galleria Mall I think it was called) and you can always fly high enough to avoid people's homes (or at least around said structures if they're unusually high).

There is little excuse to invade someone's private residents without permission, although some landowners might want to mark their territory better, as I've seen at lest one person/groups garden and though from the name it bore that it was a park. It wasn't until I had prowled around a bit, thinking that I might take my lady there later (I like walking around parks in SL with my RL wife, we consider it a sort of date, a chance to get away from the stress and the kids mentally and have a bit of fun) before I realized it was private property and left. Didn't encounter any of the owners though. Had I, I would've apologized for being there, probably blushing in RL while doing so, as I know that mentally I'd feel as guilty as I would if one of my RL neighbors found me walking threw their backyard. I'm sure a lot of people who leave without responding when greeted probably had a reaction like the one I had above in the garden, but took the easy way out and ran, perhaps hoping you wouldn't follow. Embarrassment can make even the boldest man or woman shy.

You know, I was thinking about this subject all day at work and thought back to my time on Help Island. That area is really the first encounter most newbies have with SL society and I feel many of those residents responsible for helping orientate the new residents are really letting them (and those of us who have to deal with their handiwork) down. They need to be more open, forward, and vocal with the newbies, tell them more about what to expect on the other side, where they can go and what there is to do. Many of these new residents are just getting their bearings in The World, and are kind of hesitant towards oldbies, because they don't want to be ostracized before their second Life has really even began. There really need to be more of them as well.

As for bad oldbies, as someone mentioned them, I was recently muted by someone for refusing their offer of help. Never mind I was on my OWN closed property working and was just throwing down some prims so I'd have a flat surface to see how some prefab homes looked on my bit of mountain side land. I get an IM from one of my new neighbors went along the lines of "you need help" which i took to be a question. I responded with a "nope " and continued to lay out my prim boxes the neighbor then offered me an item (a "floor" saying I was wasting prims the way i was doing it and I should use that instead. I responded by discarding the object. I had stated I didn't want help already, and was having fun. Wasted prims? so what, I paid my $72, they're mine to waste as I see fit. I also had the feeling she was just trying to work me to sell me one of the "Ultra Low Prim Houses" the sign above her house promised. She just LOST it on me, called me a "jerk" for "not accepting free help" (WTF?) and said that I didn't need to respond because she just muted me. She then stopped talking to me, and I was glad for the silence. I'm not the best creator out there, In fact I'd say my skills are just around basic at best, but there was no cause for her actions. I have my land closed off for a reason, and it's people like her. Makes me want to unseat the hammer-like tower I created, make it Physical, and push it over right on top of her ugly little cabin/office, ya know?

I have to agree with Vlad. It's not about someone's age. Asshats occur in both noobs and veteran players. My partner and i built a 5000m forest, with deer and glades for people to come and enjoy. We kept our land open, even despite noob prim littering; we simply cleaned it daily. This all changed when a veteran player with a 2004 start date broke into our house, and entered our bedroom, where we were... otherwise occupied. When I confronted him as to why, his reply was "Because i do s**t like that". That earned him a ban and caused us to stop allowing people on our lands. He wasn't the first tresspasser, he was merely the most egregious & obnoxious (there is more besides that one line).

Such activities from old-timers also occur off land. A close friend and her b/f were at a store upgrading some items, when they were attacked by a 2004 old-timer for no reason, other than she was refusing his advances. I coincidentally was 2 upgrade terminals away also upgrading, when Mr old-timer put her b/f in a trap and used a freeze script on her, and then proceeded to publicly tell all the other things he was about to do to them because she was refusing him. If someone attacks my friends in front of me, that's just as bad as attacking me. Let's just say i'm better armed than Mr. old-timer griefer thanks to some toys made by Burke and a few others. As he ran away, he IM'd us with death threats against us all and threats to AR me.

So, yeah it's not about someone's age. Rather, it's about how they act.

fixed the formating for you

Yep! I am quite willing to miss out on meeting the one decent person to avoid the four nitwits. What sane person would want to have 80% of their ingame contacts suck just to have 20% be nice?
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Froobs? You a AO player by chance? That's the term for the free account holders there.

Mr. H, I don't feel that I've somehow perverted this thread with a completely different take on it. If you're complaining about how rude new noobies can be, what do you want accomplished?

Your responses to my accusations make it sound like you're someone who would be quick to point out that blacks are responsible for most violent crime in the United States but you "have a friend who's black" ("Why can't they all be as well-behaved as him?".

To me, the real issue that was pointed out in this thread is a severe problem with the outlooks of a few veteran players.

And Maklin, I'm sure you'd rather sentence 1 innocent man to death than let 4 guilty men walk free. You can call me insane for not wanting a eugenics program in SL. Let's agree to disagree.

And any noobs completely freaked out, or left with a bad taste by this thread, feel free to look me up in-world and hang out at my place. I don't have seperate water fountains.

I'd rather not deal with noobs myself. Newbies, on the other hand, are more than welcome. A huge difference in which is which. Noob applies to anyone, not just new players.

As an entertaining example.

When I use the term noob, I mean it exactly as it means. I do not use it in place of the word newbie. I think that very few of us have issues with actual newbies. Newbies are wonderful folk, whom many of us are willing to help out as we can.

I think the problem here is that many landowners, probably stung too many times by real griefers the past couple of months, have gotten to the "shoot first ask questions later" stage which isn't exactly.... "civilized".

If you leave your land and home open to anyone who passes by, newbies, who have no idea what is "private" or "public" space, will wander around and if you have your permissions open, may think that they have the right to build. Why wouldn't they, if they don't know? If the idea of someone coming into your home or building on your land is completely unacceptable, then put up the security orbs, lock down permissions and stop complaining. This "if you so much as touch something in my sacred space I will eject and ban you, even though I leave my doors wide open for any clueless newb to wander into" shit really is stupid. They. Don't. Know. And "can I help you?" doesn't really clue them in, either. They may think YOU are the one being a jerk. Just tell them this is your land, period. No "you should just know better, I'm not giving you any simple answers or any time to figure it out" nonsense.

Now, that doesn't mean there aren't assholes who are probably olbie alts or annoying kids who are going to cause trouble. That is a problem caused by open registration. But treating every newbie as if they should know everything you do and behave accordingly is simply unfair and... uncivil. Like I said, lock your doors if you don't want anyone coming in. You know, some of them really DO think you're an NPC, heh.

Remember, it's easier for a teen to get a main grid account than it is for a teen to get a teen grid account. This behavior should be no surprise to anyone.

Very true. LL really didn't think the registration process out very well.

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I believe LL is giving residents the deny access to unverified abilities to make them pay to be verified. Instead of keeping moniless people from getting into SL they can register now, but have to pay to access these forbidden areas. Sorta like how SOE does in EQ. You gota pay for the expansion to access the new content.

However when you look at this in a Real world perspective, it's descriminating keeping them out because they haven't paid. I personally do not issue this denial of access because i know a lot of decent furries who enter the sims i'm in charge of, and even live there. My friends list contains 3 people (discluding alts) who are unverified and have been very kind people.