Noobs that lack common courtesy
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-28-2006 09:43
Why is it that so many of our new residents lack even the most basic level of common courtesy and civilized behavior? I don't mind at all if someone is new, if they just behave in a civilized manner, respond appropriately when spoken to, and have at least a modicum of respect for those around them. Is that really too much to ask? They seem to lack any manners at all. They seem completely ignorant of the concept that others might have any sense of personal property rights. They treat everyplace as if it was a public sandbox, or a public park that they should be free to explore at will. The idea that property others have paid for and homes others have built are not public spaces doesn't seem to have dawned on most of them.
Too many of the new people that have been showing up one my household's main parcel have been treating our property and residents with about as much respect and courtesy as one might show to the local garbage dump. We have spent a lot of time and money creating a lovely area for our homes, and our household owns a very large part of the sim. We have a number of builders and scripters in our household and among our friends, and had thus far resisted the action of locking down the building and scripting rights on the parcel.
Now, because of the rude and unthinking behavior of a handful of newbies, we have had to resort to banning all outside access from our land. Not because of deliberate griefing, but merely for outright rude behavior by a torrent of newbies.
In one 24 hour period:
I log on in the morning, to find that overnight we have accumulated three bright red aircraft, crashed and abandoned on top of or next to our outdoor spa, all left by the same newbie, whose account was created the previous day.
That afternoon, I find that between breakfast and lunchtime, another newbie has left a plywood platform hanging in the air above the crash site. His account was made that same day.
While one of our group officers was there cleaning up the mess, we had three newbies in less than 10 minutes show up and start using our land as a public sandbox, or otherwise acting rude and uncivilized.
One Human male appeared on the roof of the property owner's home, and started rezzing anything from a gun to boats. On seeing the gun, I activated a personal defense HUD. When the parcel group officer sat beside him and politely asked "May I help you?" he just said "Nope" and then ignored us as he continued to rez random objects on our land. When told he was being rude and asked to leave, he eventually did, without an apology. His account was new that day.
A minute later we had another newbie (Human male) playing with an elevator. When we said hello, he said hello, removed his clothes (in the presence of two women) and then ignored us as he started playing around in my neighbor's home. He also flew off, still nude, without a word when informed that his behavior was rude. His account was new that day.
When 5 more unknowns then appeared at almost the same minute on the edge of my defense HUD's scanner range, and appeared to be converging on us, we locked down the parcel.
The only civil newbie that showed up that day was a young woman, who asked to see inside my house. I happily started to give her a tour, but she apparently got bored and flew off after barely getting past the entrance. Her account was also less than 2 days old. If she had stayed around and talked, I could have given her a lot of nice freebies to get started.
Other newbies just strolled through the area and ignored any attempts to talk to them.
We are now doing a check of every item that our parcel's approved residents have, to ensure they are set to the appropriate land group, so we can set autoreturn on the property. We'll probably have to re-configure our group roles so only our land group can build on the property, and so almost anyone in the group can eject people and control the access list. Then, maybe, we can unlock the parcel again.
We had hoped to do some much-needed property updates that day, transferring ownership of some parts of our home, so remodeling work could be joined and archived with th erest of the build. But we didn't dare set any objects for sale with unknown people showing up every time we turned around.
*sigh*
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
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08-28-2006 09:51
I've ran into a lot of rude ones too, they're invariably male, and about 90% of the time they make comments of a sexual nature. I was building at Burning Life, and some guy with a 2 day old account walked up to me and asked me if I was a hooker, and what'd I'd do for $25L. I was wearing jeans and a tanktop at the time, and wearing a live help tag, so no idea where he got the idea I was for hire.
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Io Zeno
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2006
Posts: 940
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08-28-2006 09:53
Ceera, I think you are going to have to lock down your sim if it is that much of a problem. I think a lot of newbies are just clueless. Once they learn they can build, and everyone encourages them to do it, they just start anywhere they have permission. I don't think many of them have the "concept" of private vs. public space in SL, and it isn't something they are told about, either. Nor is it clear, they will find that they can build in the oddest places and not in others without much explaination as to why. So they just start building and leaving stuff where they can. They don't know any better. Do you explain to them that this is your home and they should keep their... experiments and stuff in sandboxes? And tell them where those are?
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Joshua Nightshade
Registered dragon
Join date: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,337
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08-28-2006 10:00
From: Ceera Murakami Why is it that so many of our new residents lack even the most basic level of common courtesy and civilized behavior? I don't mind at all if someone is new, if they just behave in a civilized manner, respond appropriately when spoken to, and have at least a modicum of respect for those around them. Is that really too much to ask? They seem to lack any manners at all. They seem completely ignorant of the concept that others might have any sense of personal property rights. They treat everyplace as if it was a public sandbox, or a public park that they should be free to explore at will. The idea that property others have paid for and homes others have built are not public spaces doesn't seem to have dawned on most of them.
Too many of the new people that have been showing up one my household's main parcel have been treating our property and residents with about as much respect and courtesy as one might show to the local garbage dump. We have spent a lot of time and money creating a lovely area for our homes, and our household owns a very large part of the sim. We have a number of builders and scripters in our household and among our friends, and had thus far resisted the action of locking down the building and scripting rights on the parcel.
Now, because of the rude and unthinking behavior of a handful of newbies, we have had to resort to banning all outside access from our land. Not because of deliberate griefing, but merely for outright rude behavior by a torrent of newbies.
In one 24 hour period:
I log on in the morning, to find that overnight we have accumulated three bright red aircraft, crashed and abandoned on top of or next to our outdoor spa, all left by the same newbie, whose account was created the previous day.
That afternoon, I find that between breakfast and lunchtime, another newbie has left a plywood platform hanging in the air above the crash site. His account was made that same day.
While one of our group officers was there cleaning up the mess, we had three newbies in less than 10 minutes show up and start using our land as a public sandbox, or otherwise acting rude and uncivilized.
One Human male appeared on the roof of the property owner's home, and started rezzing anything from a gun to boats. On seeing the gun, I activated a personal defense HUD. When the parcel group officer sat beside him and politely asked "May I help you?" he just said "Nope" and then ignored us as he continued to rez random objects on our land. When told he was being rude and asked to leave, he eventually did, without an apology. His account was new that day.
A minute later we had another newbie (Human male) playing with an elevator. When we said hello, he said hello, removed his clothes (in the presence of two women) and then ignored us as he started playing around in my neighbor's home. He also flew off, still nude, without a word when informed that his behavior was rude. His account was new that day.
When 5 more unknowns then appeared at almost the same minute on the edge of my defense HUD's scanner range, and appeared to be converging on us, we locked down the parcel.
The only civil newbie that showed up that day was a young woman, who asked to see inside my house. I happily started to give her a tour, but she apparently got bored and flew off after barely getting past the entrance. Her account was also less than 2 days old. If she had stayed around and talked, I could have given her a lot of nice freebies to get started.
Other newbies just strolled through the area and ignored any attempts to talk to them.
We are now doing a check of every item that our parcel's approved residents have, to ensure they are set to the appropriate land group, so we can set autoreturn on the property. We'll probably have to re-configure our group roles so only our land group can build on the property, and so almost anyone in the group can eject people and control the access list. Then, maybe, we can unlock the parcel again.
We had hoped to do some much-needed property updates that day, transferring ownership of some parts of our home, so remodeling work could be joined and archived with th erest of the build. But we didn't dare set any objects for sale with unknown people showing up every time we turned around.
*sigh* While I completely understand your frustration and the new people bug the hell out of me, as an aside here, let's not say things like: "When we said hello, he said hello, removed his clothes (in the presence of two women) and then ignored us as he started playing around in my neighbor's home." What does being in the presence of two women have to do with anything? They're going to see things a lot more frightening than a naked Ken Doll avatar in Second Life, let's not run around as if their poor chastity is at stake. 
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 Visit in-world: http://tinyurl.com/2zy63d http://shop.onrez.com/Joshua_Nightshade http://joshuameadows.com/
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Angel Fluffy
Very Helpful
Join date: 3 Mar 2006
Posts: 810
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08-28-2006 10:03
I understand the problem you are having with clueless newbies. I think turning off "Run Other Scripts" and setting an auto-return of "1" is a very good way to deal with those problems. I wonder though - why do so many of them seem to find your place? Do you happen to live next to a welcome area? Or do you just have a lot of people on your land and the newbs flock to dots on the minimap? Or is your place so beautiful it draws people from far and wide? 
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Macphisto Angelus
JAFO
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 5,831
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08-28-2006 10:04
From: Maeve Morgan I've ran into a lot of rude ones too, they're invariably male, and about 90% of the time they make comments of a sexual nature. I was building at Burning Life, and some guy with a 2 day old account walked up to me and asked me if I was a hooker, and what'd I'd do for $25L. I was wearing jeans and a tanktop at the time, and wearing a live help tag, so no idea where he got the idea I was for hire. It isnt what you are wearing or any impressions. It really seems that many of the new people are kids that have the impression SL is all hookers and humping. I hope they only run into people that tell them to buzz off when approached like that and they will get bored and go away. I have met some VERY nice new players. But the vast majority I run into are rude and obvious kids playing with guns in malls and hitting on anybody they can. I cant wait to have a MILLION of these idiots running around. 
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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my two yen
08-28-2006 10:10
My only question is about the aircraft. Do you have any reason for why the aircraft crashed there in the first place? Second Life is not a nice place for flyers and have been forced to ground myself. Could the wooden platform have been set up for some sort of "recovery" operation? About rude newbies, we seem to be getting more and more of them lately. I have been seeing more them as well. I had a newbie show up at our group building and he told me to get out of his building! Then we had another show up at a group meeting. We welcome quests to our meetings. In the middle of this meeting he got up on the table, took off his clothes and started dancing! Do you have and thoughts to the cause of this?
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Joshua Nightshade
Registered dragon
Join date: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,337
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08-28-2006 10:11
From: Ranma Tardis My only question is about the aircraft. Do you have any reason for why the aircraft crashed there in the first place? Second Life is not a nice place for flyers and have been forced to ground myself. Could the wooden platform have been set up for some sort of "recovery" operation? About rude newbies, we seem to be getting more and more of them lately. I have been seeing more them as well. I had a newbie show up at our group building and he told me to get out of his building! Then we had another show up at a group meeting. We welcome quests to our meetings. In the middle of this meeting he got up on the table, took off his clothes and started dancing! Do you have and thoughts to the cause of this? The cause is cos everytime someone takes off their clothes everyone screams "The horror!" Treat it like a 5 year old; don't acknowledge it and they'll get bored and go away. 
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 Visit in-world: http://tinyurl.com/2zy63d http://shop.onrez.com/Joshua_Nightshade http://joshuameadows.com/
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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08-28-2006 10:14
*ponders* I don't know.. when I started SL as a newbie (not a noob), I didn't just build indescrimately, anywhere I wanted. I asked permission of one of my friends, who got me in and that's where I started. Otherwise, it was sandboxes.
Now, I do admit that occassionally, I'd stop at an interesting build when I was flying from telehubs to the locations I was heading and look around. This was providing that none was there to be bothered by me. I didn't play with the poseballs or anything.. just looked around and see what they did and wonder how they managed it. On a couple of occasions, I'd IM the owner of the place and ask how they managed the effect.
But, yes, I have noticed an increase of rude people. Like early last week, while I was putting up a couple of vendors on my land.. I was waiting for an upload of images for the second vendor while working on the first. This new guy (the account was a couple of days old) comes flying in asking if I need a bodyguard or hitman. *snort* I told him, "No thank you... I can take care of myself," upon which he said he needed money and pulled out a gun. I ignored him, since my land is set no-push for shopper convience. He said, "Last chance," and started counting down. Idiot. I froze him and ejected him. He TP'd back, gun still plainly visible. He got out a "What," before I froze him and then ejected/banned him. He shot at me from the neighboring land and got bored and wondered off. I was too busy laughing.
I did warn him that I could take care of myself, did I not? If I hadn't been uploading and a bit lagged from that, I might have kept him frozen, dressed him in a prim skirt and explained to him that if he doesn't like what I'm doing, imagine what I feel like.
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
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08-28-2006 10:17
From: Macphisto Angelus It isnt what you are wearing or any impressions. It really seems that many of the new people are kids that have the impression SL is all hookers and humping. I hope they only run into people that tell them to buzz off when approached like that and they will get bored and go away. I have met some VERY nice new players. But the vast majority I run into are rude and obvious kids playing with guns in malls and hitting on anybody they can. I cant wait to have a MILLION of these idiots running around.  I think telling him I'd give him a kick in the pants for his $25L may have made an impact.
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 Located in SharkEverything under $100L
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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08-28-2006 10:24
From: Joshua Nightshade The cause is cos everytime someone takes off their clothes everyone screams "The horror!" Treat it like a 5 year old; don't acknowledge it and they'll get bored and go away.  We were trying to have a serious meeting and he was doing his best to distract us. Pat took care of him somehow and he has not yet come back. It is not the fact he got naked (as exciting as looking at a Ken doll!) It was the fact he was rude and disrupted our meeting.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-28-2006 10:24
From: Joshua Nightshade While I completely understand your frustration and the new people bug the hell out of me, as an aside here, let's not say things like: "When we said hello, he said hello, removed his clothes (in the presence of two women) and then ignored us as he started playing around in my neighbor's home." What does being in the presence of two women have to do with anything? They're going to see things a lot more frightening than a naked Ken Doll avatar in Second Life, let's not run around as if their poor chastity is at stake.  Joshua, I consider it a prime example of uncivilized behavior that when in the presence of two people who were fully clothed, regardless of their gender, he deliberately stripped off his own clothes. Personally, we were neither shocked nor offended. If anything, I was tempted to point, laugh, and make fun of what he so clearly lacked. If he wanted to use the hot springs and asked for and recieved permission, I wouldn't have cared if he stripped and climbed into the water. But to arrive clothed, and then remove one's clothes and parade about in the buff without so much as a 'by your leave?'... That is uncivilized. As it was, niether of us gave him the staisfaction of a reaction. From: Angel Fluffy I understand the problem you are having with clueless newbies. I think turning off "Run Other Scripts" and setting an auto-return of "1" is a very good way to deal with those problems. I wonder though - why do so many of them seem to find your place? Do you happen to live next to a welcome area? Or do you just have a lot of people on your land and the newbs flock to dots on the minimap? Or is your place so beautiful it draws people from far and wide?  Can't turn off "run other scripts" without crippling the avatars of most of our invited guests, most of whom are furries. We are almost dead center in the world map. If you aim for the center of the area dominated by the two main continents, our sim is one of those right on the shore of the central waterway between them. In the sim next to ours there is a store that caters to newbies, offering lots of L$1 items. A lot of them are probably in the area because of that store. We are probably the nicest looking area near that store. The area right in front of my house is the closest open area of flat land. It's an open space that I and others in our household often use as a place to build larger new projects, but it's pretty clearly also my front lawn. Unfortunately, there is a protected Linden waterway that winds through the center of the parcel. It's no-build and has auto-return set on it, but even with the parcel locked down, someone can still hover over the river and be very close to the houses. Not quite in Chat range, but close.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Vladamire McCellan
Registered User
Join date: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 19
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08-28-2006 10:36
I'm sorry to hear that some of my "brethern," as it were, have caused you and your group such considerable trouble Ceera. Rest assured that not all of us newbies are like these poor examples of residenthood. I've found many of my fellows have a better time of it and tend to develop kinder and more concencous attitudes if they're caught early out of Help Island and treated with kindness and understanding. I've made a couple of fast friends in my short time being in The World just by sharing what little I've learned from just playing around and reading the various helpful notecards penned by the Lindens and other players. as for the tools who seem to hit on anything that moves? Tell me about it! My name is Vladamire McCellan, for pete's sake! But, I guess because I'm not built like a pro wrestler wannabe and sport a sort of trenchcoat, even I'm fair game (at least until they get a good look at my Avi and see the goatee, lack of chest enhancement, and package. some people say the craziest things when they realize they've just hit on a dude  ).
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-28-2006 10:36
The three aircraft all were on a crash vector from the floating air strip in the sim next door, but not on a line with any designated runway. It was as if he had just aimed them for the edge of the platform, given just enough forward thrust to barely get airborne, and then either got un-sat at the sim border, and they continued on that line to crash, or he deliberately nose-dived into the home at the base of the cliff. We didn't have anything on that parcel at the time that would have prevented him from flying or walking over to his aircraft and taking off again. The designated airstrip runway aims into another sim entirely for the takeoffs and landings.
I IM'ed the owner of the aircraft that morning, telling him that his planes would be returned by a group officer as soon as I could find one, and that it was rude to leave them lying on someone's property. 8 hours later, when we returned them, we still had no reply. 24 hours later, this morning, still no reply.
The plywood platform was from another user.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Jack Harker
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2005
Posts: 552
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08-28-2006 10:41
Might I suggest turning on, "Ban Unverified Accounts"?
I think that LL should also step up to the plate and inform people coming into the game that most of the land in the game is privately owned. I don't think that most newbies have a clue about this, and from what I'm told other, "games" don't *have* privately owned land.
I also think that LL is remise in not dealing with the influx of newbies by creating more Welcome Areas to deal with them. Instead they're dispersing them to the Info-Hubs (Former Telehubs.) all over the map, with no orientation what-so-ever.
It would be nice if there were some way to pop a note card on the newbies without repeatedly hitting your regular residents, informing them that they are on private land, and there at the sufferance of the land owner. The only way I can think of to alert people that they're on private land is to do it at the top of the screen, in the name of the land itself.
For all of these problems, I place the blame squarely on LL's wrong headed policy of getting account numbers up, and damn the concequences.
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Jack Harker
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2005
Posts: 552
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08-28-2006 10:44
From: Vladamire McCellan I'm sorry to hear that some of my "brethern," as it were, have caused you and your group such considerable trouble Ceera. Rest assured that not all of us newbies are like these poor examples of residenthood. I've found many of my fellows have a better time of it and tend to develop kinder and more concencous attitudes if they're caught early out of Help Island and treated with kindness and understanding. I've made a couple of fast friends in my short time being in The World just by sharing what little I've learned from just playing around and reading the various helpful notecards penned by the Lindens and other players. as for the tools who seem to hit on anything that moves? Tell me about it! My name is Vladamire McCellan, for pete's sake! But, I guess because I'm not built like a pro wrestler wannabe and sport a sort of trenchcoat, even I'm fair game (at least until they get a good look at my Avi and see the goatee, lack of chest enhancement, and package. some people say the craziest things when they realize they've just hit on a dude  ). That's where you tell them, "Hey, don't worry about it. You're gay and there's nothing at all wrong with that." 
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-28-2006 10:45
Vladamire, I do realize that not all newbies are bad folk. If they would just talk politely to me, I'd be happy to spend time chatrting with them, giving them freebies, and helping them to get started in SL. But most don't want to talk or be polite.
If I see a new person walking around on my property, I say hello. I ask if they are from around the area, and if I can help them.
If I catch them walking around inside my home, I say hello and let them know they are inside my home. I may sound a bit annoyed, but I'll still talk politely to them if they reply politely. In the last week I have had no less than three perfect strangers walk into my second floor bedroom, which they have to open several doors in my home to get to - doors that are set to auto-close and are never left open.
Unfortunately, the newbies that are rude have been ruining it for everyone else. I've gotten almost to the point of activating my defense HUD before even approaching a new person on our property to say hello. The only reason I don't is because we already have no-push active on the parcel.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Duntroon Donburi
Registered Noob
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 129
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08-28-2006 10:48
i have to question how many of these "new" residents are new at all and are just existing players making alts to grief.
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Jack Harker
Registered User
Join date: 4 May 2005
Posts: 552
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08-28-2006 10:48
From: Ceera Murakami Vladamire, I do realize that not all newbies are bad folk. If they would just talk politely to me, I'd be happy to spend time chatrting with them, giving them freebies, and helping them to get started in SL. But most don't want to talk or be polite.
If I see a new person walking around on my property, I say hello. I ask if they are from around the area, and if I can help them.
If I catch them walking around inside my home, I say hello and let them know they are inside my home. I may sound a bit annoyed, but I'll still talk politely to them if they reply politely. In the last week I have had no less than three perfect strangers walk into my second floor bedroom, which they have to open several doors in my home to get to - doors that are set to auto-close and are never left open.
Unfortunately, the newbies that are rude have been ruining it for everyone else. I've gotten almost to the point of activating my defense HUD before even approaching a new person on our property to say hello. The only reason I don't is because we already have no-push active on the parcel. Hmm...if somone is walking around *inside* my house uninvited, then that's the sort of thing I'll freeze and eject for without warning. Of course, I have no external doors, so for anyone to get in, they'd have to break in, but still...that's *very* rude.
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onionpencil Musashi
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 324
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08-28-2006 10:52
bit tired of all the daycare case myself.. 8( (if i have to tell you thngs any 4 yr old should know, you're a daycare case)
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Coyote Momiji
Pintsized Plutonium
Join date: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 715
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08-28-2006 10:53
I just had some git wave a ginormous penis at me shortly before he tried to sell me freebies.
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Chronic Skronski
SL Live Musician
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 997
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08-28-2006 10:56
I have left vehicles on property that is not my own before - after being tossed around like a pinball by ban lines and security orbs, I became detached from it and it got buried in the ground as I was flung a couple of sims away. There is no chance I would have been able to find the vehicle again.
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
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08-28-2006 10:58
From: Coyote Momiji I just had some git wave a ginormous penis at me shortly before he tried to sell me freebies. *cough* You owe me a new keyboard, cause this one just got a Dr Pepper bath.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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08-28-2006 10:59
From: Jack Harker Hmm...if somone is walking around *inside* my house uninvited, then that's the sort of thing I'll freeze and eject for without warning. Of course, I have no external doors, so for anyone to get in, they'd have to break in, but still...that's *very* rude. I've rescripted all my doors so they auto-close, so they no longer have the excuse 'the door was open'. If they do a mouseover on any exterior door, the text clearly says "Private Residence - Ask before entering." I'm working on new scripts that will lock the doors to all but our land group and an approved access list, but the problem there is that it has to allow at least two people to update that list. If it gets too bad, I own a Psyke's Security Orb, and could set it up. Still need to have the land group owner re-arrange the group roles, so more of us can eject when needed. I'm not a land group officer, though my house mate is. Right now only the officers can ban, eject, or change the access list.
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Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Coyote Momiji
Pintsized Plutonium
Join date: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 715
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08-28-2006 11:06
From: Maeve Morgan *cough* You owe me a new keyboard, cause this one just got a Dr Pepper bath. Sorry. Best of all? It was in a PG zone.
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